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Machiavellian on 22 September 2018
EricHiggin said:
Machiavellian said:

Actually Kap was not looking for media attention when he first started this journey.  The media was looking for something and found Kap.  When this first started, Kap was just sitting on the bench during the anthem.  A journalist noticed him sitting on the bench during the anthem and asked him why and he explained that he could not stand for during the anthem when there was injustice still going on in America.  At this time no one even noticed him sitting on the bench during the anthem or even cared until one journalist made it into a story.

At BOLDED:  Not sure what you mean by this.  Just because someone decide to protest doesn't mean people will just turn the way they think and jump on board.  Any protest takes years to come to any type of conclusion or no conclusion.  This is not a right or left situation it's an institution type of situation.  Black people have been saying they have been abused by the police for years way before Kap and definitely way before camera phones came on the scene.  It was ignored then and it still ignored now even when evidence is presented.  Just like with the Civil rights marches and protest during the 60s, nothing is going to get noticed or changed unless the protest has staying power, raises awareness and does not get side tracked by dumb stuff (violence would be a key which I am sure some detractors would love to happen).  This is not a sprint its a marathon.  As we have shone plenty of times, people always say protest a different way even during the Civil Rights times.  The key is to continue to protest and continue to add that tension which is needed for change.

To assume Kap figured his protest wouldn't ever lead to anything isn't logical. If you don't think doing something is worth it, you don't do it, unless your forced to of course. Kap would have kept standing otherwise. The point of sitting would be to get noticed, which if you take that logical path, will eventually expand depending on the factors at play. Based on the reasoning for his sitting, assuming all he wanted was sympathy from a few team mates, or whatever, makes no sense. If Kap didn't want media attention, he would have told the reporter to beat it and would have kept quiet.

Just recently with the Kavanaugh sexual assault accusation, and protest of his nomination, the vote is being held off even though the evidence at this time couldn't be more weak. One of the reasons no doubt is because she feels she was suppressed considering it happened like 30 years ago and she hasn't been able to come forward. The people clearly think the woman went about this in a proper enough manner, and that it's important enough to be taken care of asap because of it. It's not just about the underlying problem, it's how it's 'marketed' as well. I also wasn't saying protesters should give up, but when you've spent enough time pushing against a brick wall, and you've tried to smash through it and still don't succeed, then maybe you should look at another approach, like take a walk and find where the wall ends for example. Continuing to pound on the wall instead, is just going to fuel the anger of the people inside.

I am not assuming anything, read the first article.  He was just sitting on the bench minding his own business and really did not see this gaining any attention until he was questioned.  You do know a lot of protest happen because someone decided to do something not looking for media attention but instead just doing what they believe is right.  It would be different if Kap alerted the media that he is sitting on the bench to protest police brutality then you would have a point.  Not everyone looks for the spotlight or the camera.  Maybe the point for you is that you would seek media attention but this is not always the case.  To your last sentence that is you assuming everyone would respond the way you think they should or would.  Why would he tell the journalist to beat it.  

It really doesn't matter if there was strong evidence or not for Kavanaugh.  The GOP is only playing this out for points.  They never had any intention to not confirm him and after Mitch recent comments he pretty much made that very clear.  This song and dance show was always going to go to the group in power and that is the GOP.  What I really hear from you is that you never protested anything before.  You seem to be always concerned about angering the other side as if not making them angry makes any difference.  If you never produce any strong emotion at all then you can definitely believe the opposite is apathy.  Apathy is even worst.  Its pretty much what you describe.  Hey, don't protest this way do it some other way that I cannot see, hear or know what you are doing so I can really not care.  Find a way not to make me think or form a side so I can sit hear and dismiss you without ever thinking about it.  Go wear a tee shirt and do not cause any tension.



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EricHiggin on 22 September 2018
Machiavellian said:

I am not assuming anything, read the first article.  He was just sitting on the bench minding his own business and really did not see this gaining any attention until he was questioned.  You do know a lot of protest happen because someone decided to do something not looking for media attention but instead just doing what they believe is right.  It would be different if Kap alerted the media that he is sitting on the bench to protest police brutality then you would have a point.  Not everyone looks for the spotlight or the camera.  Maybe the point for you is that you would seek media attention but this is not always the case.  To your last sentence that is you assuming everyone would respond the way you think they should or would.  Why would he tell the journalist to beat it.  

It really doesn't matter if there was strong evidence or not for Kavanaugh.  The GOP is only playing this out for points.  They never had any intention to not confirm him and after Mitch recent comments he pretty much made that very clear.  This song and dance show was always going to go to the group in power and that is the GOP.  What I really hear from you is that you never protested anything before.  You seem to be always concerned about angering the other side as if not making them angry makes any difference.  If you never produce any strong emotion at all then you can definitely believe the opposite is apathy.  Apathy is even worst.  Its pretty much what you describe.  Hey, don't protest this way do it some other way that I cannot see, hear or know what you are doing so I can really not care.  Find a way not to make me think or form a side so I can sit hear and dismiss you without ever thinking about it.  Go wear a tee shirt and do not cause any tension.

That's like me deciding to find a cure for cancer starting today, then years, decades, down the road after I've succeed and when that news goes viral I explain, 'I never thought it would lead to this. The media and everyone wanting to know about something that could do a lot of good for many people. Who would have thought?' Either that or I keep quiet and just keep the cure to myself, because what was no doubt a part of the process once a cure was found? Using it for the greater good. Otherwise you would see me and Kap as the hugest scumbags ever because who does something like that simply for themselves? Nike deal?

I don't disagree the GOP ain't changing their minds unless she has some great evidence that has yet to be seen. Based on what evidence is available, there is no reason to believe Kavanaugh himself is the culprit. That doesn't mean she wasn't assaulted, but if you look at the scenario overall, at this point in time it looks like delay tactics from the DNC. Whether or not there is a little payback in there too who knows. Both sides have a little dirt on their hands at the moment, but we'll see who ends up covered in mud.

Obviously protesting is going to cause a stir. That's part of why it's protesting. There is no perfect way to start a protest, but what I'm saying is when you start a protest and continue with the same game plan after getting nowhere for quite some time, while you can keep at it, the odds of you accomplishing your goal becomes more and more unlikely, or at best, just drags it out unnecessarily into the future. The people who your protesting, are against your protest, so the best idea is to try and fit their 'mold' as much as possible, to try and get them on your side, without weakening what your fighting for. It's not that simple as if it only should take weeks, but how long has this been going on for now and yet some players are still kneeling? Then there's Kap and his Nike deal, which they no doubt knew would be adding sneakers as fuel to the fire. It seems like they are more so just trying to piss off the right as if they think their cause is completely lost and so why not go out with a bang. I do not see the brilliance in this other than Nike and Kap making some quick dough off Kaps supporters.



HylianSwordsman on 22 September 2018
EricHiggin said:

That's like me deciding to find a cure for cancer starting today, then years, decades, down the road after I've succeed and when that news goes viral I explain, 'I never thought it would lead to this. The media and everyone wanting to know about something that could do a lot of good for many people. Who would have thought?' Either that or I keep quiet and just keep the cure to myself, because what was no doubt a part of the process once a cure was found? Using it for the greater good. Otherwise you would see me and Kap as the hugest scumbags ever because who does something like that simply for themselves? Nike deal?

I don't disagree the GOP ain't changing their minds unless she has some great evidence that has yet to be seen. Based on what evidence is available, there is no reason to believe Kavanaugh himself is the culprit. That doesn't mean she wasn't assaulted, but if you look at the scenario overall, at this point in time it looks like delay tactics from the DNC. Whether or not there is a little payback in there too who knows. Both sides have a little dirt on their hands at the moment, but we'll see who ends up covered in mud.

Obviously protesting is going to cause a stir. That's part of why it's protesting. There is no perfect way to start a protest, but what I'm saying is when you start a protest and continue with the same game plan after getting nowhere for quite some time, while you can keep at it, the odds of you accomplishing your goal becomes more and more unlikely, or at best, just drags it out unnecessarily into the future. The people who your protesting, are against your protest, so the best idea is to try and fit their 'mold' as much as possible, to try and get them on your side, without weakening what your fighting for. It's not that simple as if it only should take weeks, but how long has this been going on for now and yet some players are still kneeling? Then there's Kap and his Nike deal, which they no doubt knew would be adding sneakers as fuel to the fire. It seems like they are more so just trying to piss off the right as if they think their cause is completely lost and so why not go out with a bang. I do not see the brilliance in this other than Nike and Kap making some quick dough off Kaps supporters.

Sitting during the national anthem is as newsworthy as the cure for cancer. You heard it here first folks.

You want to play the hyperbolic analogy game? Fine. Two can play. Not believing Kavanaugh's accuser, the person who actually survived the rape, is like not believing a murdered person if she told you who the murderer is. Imagine the murder victim came back from the dead in a murder case and pointed out the murderer, whom she personally knew because they went to the same school, and people just tell her she was confused and say that there's no evidence that the suspect committed the murder. Also, the accused murderer is about to be appointed to a powerful position, and people say the murder victim came back from the dead just to be political. Then the murder victim asks for an FBI investigation, but people tell her to shut up and testify so they can force through the murderer's nomination, and the murder never gets solved or even investigated because it's inconvenient for the party in power.



KLAMarine on 22 September 2018
HylianSwordsman said:
EricHiggin said:

That's like me deciding to find a cure for cancer starting today, then years, decades, down the road after I've succeed and when that news goes viral I explain, 'I never thought it would lead to this. The media and everyone wanting to know about something that could do a lot of good for many people. Who would have thought?' Either that or I keep quiet and just keep the cure to myself, because what was no doubt a part of the process once a cure was found? Using it for the greater good. Otherwise you would see me and Kap as the hugest scumbags ever because who does something like that simply for themselves? Nike deal?

I don't disagree the GOP ain't changing their minds unless she has some great evidence that has yet to be seen. Based on what evidence is available, there is no reason to believe Kavanaugh himself is the culprit. That doesn't mean she wasn't assaulted, but if you look at the scenario overall, at this point in time it looks like delay tactics from the DNC. Whether or not there is a little payback in there too who knows. Both sides have a little dirt on their hands at the moment, but we'll see who ends up covered in mud.

Obviously protesting is going to cause a stir. That's part of why it's protesting. There is no perfect way to start a protest, but what I'm saying is when you start a protest and continue with the same game plan after getting nowhere for quite some time, while you can keep at it, the odds of you accomplishing your goal becomes more and more unlikely, or at best, just drags it out unnecessarily into the future. The people who your protesting, are against your protest, so the best idea is to try and fit their 'mold' as much as possible, to try and get them on your side, without weakening what your fighting for. It's not that simple as if it only should take weeks, but how long has this been going on for now and yet some players are still kneeling? Then there's Kap and his Nike deal, which they no doubt knew would be adding sneakers as fuel to the fire. It seems like they are more so just trying to piss off the right as if they think their cause is completely lost and so why not go out with a bang. I do not see the brilliance in this other than Nike and Kap making some quick dough off Kaps supporters.

Sitting during the national anthem is as newsworthy as the cure for cancer. You heard it here first folks.

You want to play the hyperbolic analogy game? Fine. Two can play. Not believing Kavanaugh's accuser, the person who actually survived the rape, is like not believing a murdered person if she told you who the murderer is. Imagine the murder victim came back from the dead in a murder case and pointed out the murderer, whom she personally knew because they went to the same school, and people just tell her she was confused and say that there's no evidence that the suspect committed the murder. Also, the accused murderer is about to be appointed to a powerful position, and people say the murder victim came back from the dead just to be political. Then the murder victim asks for an FBI investigation, but people tell her to shut up and testify so they can force through the murderer's nomination, and the murder never gets solved or even investigated because it's inconvenient for the party in power.

A murder leaves behind a dead body. A rape does not.



EricHiggin on 23 September 2018
HylianSwordsman said:

Sitting during the national anthem is as newsworthy as the cure for cancer. You heard it here first folks.

You want to play the hyperbolic analogy game? Fine. Two can play. Not believing Kavanaugh's accuser, the person who actually survived the rape, is like not believing a murdered person if she told you who the murderer is. Imagine the murder victim came back from the dead in a murder case and pointed out the murderer, whom she personally knew because they went to the same school, and people just tell her she was confused and say that there's no evidence that the suspect committed the murder. Also, the accused murderer is about to be appointed to a powerful position, and people say the murder victim came back from the dead just to be political. Then the murder victim asks for an FBI investigation, but people tell her to shut up and testify so they can force through the murderer's nomination, and the murder never gets solved or even investigated because it's inconvenient for the party in power.

So you made a poor point just so you could get to the off topic point, initially made to back up what was said about the main topic, on my part at least?

I also dislike how you've made it clear you think the cure for cancer is more important than ending the suppression of blacks and minorities. They are people to you know.

First, a murder victim coming back from the dead doesn't work unless your point is fictional. Secondly, "That doesn't mean she wasn't assaulted", what I said, means she very well may have been assaulted, so why are you suggesting I don't believe her? Do you think because I pointed out the DNC is potentially using her as a stall tactic, that her case isn't worthy of being heard? If your mad you should be mad at the DNC, not me.

The fact that she asked for an FBI investigation doesn't matter. It's not a federal offence so the FBI has nothing to do with it. I'd like the FBI to investigate why one of my neighbors committed suicide, but that's not going to happen either. She hasn't been told to shut up and testify. The GOP had already set up a date for Monday and she refused and wanted a date later in the week and they said sure let's figure it out. As for her asking for Kavanaugh to go first is never going to happen because not only does the system not work that way, it's for good reason, because until you know exactly what your being accused of and the details of it, how are you supposed to know how to defend yourself? She's obviously trying to imply he's guilty and knows what he did so why can't he go first, but many woman in my life have given me beef because "I just should have known", when I never could have. That's not how life and court/hearings work.



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GhaudePhaede010 on 23 September 2018

I just want to add something I forgot a while ago. Kaepernick once secured a plane and 1 million dollars (much of it his own, non-deductable) for relief during the Somali famine. And since he was not exactly trusting of the human rights groups that were, "helping" in Somalia, he organized it himself and put himself in direct risk to be sure the aid got to its desired destination.

Just saying, this dude is pretty much one of the best people on the planet and one of the better examples of what it means to be an American. You Americans should be proud of this man, not trying to slander his words and intentions at every waking opportunity.



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Machiavellian on 24 September 2018
EricHiggin said:
Machiavellian said:

I am not assuming anything, read the first article.  He was just sitting on the bench minding his own business and really did not see this gaining any attention until he was questioned.  You do know a lot of protest happen because someone decided to do something not looking for media attention but instead just doing what they believe is right.  It would be different if Kap alerted the media that he is sitting on the bench to protest police brutality then you would have a point.  Not everyone looks for the spotlight or the camera.  Maybe the point for you is that you would seek media attention but this is not always the case.  To your last sentence that is you assuming everyone would respond the way you think they should or would.  Why would he tell the journalist to beat it.  

It really doesn't matter if there was strong evidence or not for Kavanaugh.  The GOP is only playing this out for points.  They never had any intention to not confirm him and after Mitch recent comments he pretty much made that very clear.  This song and dance show was always going to go to the group in power and that is the GOP.  What I really hear from you is that you never protested anything before.  You seem to be always concerned about angering the other side as if not making them angry makes any difference.  If you never produce any strong emotion at all then you can definitely believe the opposite is apathy.  Apathy is even worst.  Its pretty much what you describe.  Hey, don't protest this way do it some other way that I cannot see, hear or know what you are doing so I can really not care.  Find a way not to make me think or form a side so I can sit hear and dismiss you without ever thinking about it.  Go wear a tee shirt and do not cause any tension.

That's like me deciding to find a cure for cancer starting today, then years, decades, down the road after I've succeed and when that news goes viral I explain, 'I never thought it would lead to this. The media and everyone wanting to know about something that could do a lot of good for many people. Who would have thought?' Either that or I keep quiet and just keep the cure to myself, because what was no doubt a part of the process once a cure was found? Using it for the greater good. Otherwise you would see me and Kap as the hugest scumbags ever because who does something like that simply for themselves? Nike deal?

I don't disagree the GOP ain't changing their minds unless she has some great evidence that has yet to be seen. Based on what evidence is available, there is no reason to believe Kavanaugh himself is the culprit. That doesn't mean she wasn't assaulted, but if you look at the scenario overall, at this point in time it looks like delay tactics from the DNC. Whether or not there is a little payback in there too who knows. Both sides have a little dirt on their hands at the moment, but we'll see who ends up covered in mud.

Obviously protesting is going to cause a stir. That's part of why it's protesting. There is no perfect way to start a protest, but what I'm saying is when you start a protest and continue with the same game plan after getting nowhere for quite some time, while you can keep at it, the odds of you accomplishing your goal becomes more and more unlikely, or at best, just drags it out unnecessarily into the future. The people who your protesting, are against your protest, so the best idea is to try and fit their 'mold' as much as possible, to try and get them on your side, without weakening what your fighting for. It's not that simple as if it only should take weeks, but how long has this been going on for now and yet some players are still kneeling? Then there's Kap and his Nike deal, which they no doubt knew would be adding sneakers as fuel to the fire. It seems like they are more so just trying to piss off the right as if they think their cause is completely lost and so why not go out with a bang. I do not see the brilliance in this other than Nike and Kap making some quick dough off Kaps supporters.

I believe you really need to do some research on a lot of movements.  Most started as simple protest that gained momentum not because the person was looking for headlines.  Not sure how you can connect something like finding a cure for cancer to sitting on a bench during the national anthem as being on the same level.  Have you ever looked in the stands during any sporting event.  Next time why don't you do that and come back and tell me how many people sit during the anthem.

The GOP was never going to change their mind period even if she had some evidence.  As long as Trump stands by his pick and his base is more than willing to find any excuse to dismiss anything against him, there was never any question of his confirmation.  The only reason we are even going through the motions here is because of procedure.  It really doesn't matter what the DNC does, it was over as soon as Trump made his decision.

Can you give some examples of this 'mold' of protesting that was successful.  I really have no clue what you are talking about.  It's as if you are trying to play the middle which I cannot remember has ever been successful.  I believe there will always be people like you which Dr. King talked about.  You would always say, its not your time wait.  Do not march in the streets it will make people unhappy.  Do not protest this way, the right will get angry.  You will always be looking to play the middle and the middle is where you will always be, never getting anything done because you are to scared of shaking things up.  



EricHiggin on 24 September 2018
Machiavellian said:
EricHiggin said:

That's like me deciding to find a cure for cancer starting today, then years, decades, down the road after I've succeed and when that news goes viral I explain, 'I never thought it would lead to this. The media and everyone wanting to know about something that could do a lot of good for many people. Who would have thought?' Either that or I keep quiet and just keep the cure to myself, because what was no doubt a part of the process once a cure was found? Using it for the greater good. Otherwise you would see me and Kap as the hugest scumbags ever because who does something like that simply for themselves? Nike deal?

I don't disagree the GOP ain't changing their minds unless she has some great evidence that has yet to be seen. Based on what evidence is available, there is no reason to believe Kavanaugh himself is the culprit. That doesn't mean she wasn't assaulted, but if you look at the scenario overall, at this point in time it looks like delay tactics from the DNC. Whether or not there is a little payback in there too who knows. Both sides have a little dirt on their hands at the moment, but we'll see who ends up covered in mud.

Obviously protesting is going to cause a stir. That's part of why it's protesting. There is no perfect way to start a protest, but what I'm saying is when you start a protest and continue with the same game plan after getting nowhere for quite some time, while you can keep at it, the odds of you accomplishing your goal becomes more and more unlikely, or at best, just drags it out unnecessarily into the future. The people who your protesting, are against your protest, so the best idea is to try and fit their 'mold' as much as possible, to try and get them on your side, without weakening what your fighting for. It's not that simple as if it only should take weeks, but how long has this been going on for now and yet some players are still kneeling? Then there's Kap and his Nike deal, which they no doubt knew would be adding sneakers as fuel to the fire. It seems like they are more so just trying to piss off the right as if they think their cause is completely lost and so why not go out with a bang. I do not see the brilliance in this other than Nike and Kap making some quick dough off Kaps supporters.

I believe you really need to do some research on a lot of movements.  Most started as simple protest that gained momentum not because the person was looking for headlines.  Not sure how you can connect something like finding a cure for cancer to sitting on a bench during the national anthem as being on the same level.  Have you ever looked in the stands during any sporting event.  Next time why don't you do that and come back and tell me how many people sit during the anthem.

The GOP was never going to change their mind period even if she had some evidence.  As long as Trump stands by his pick and his base is more than willing to find any excuse to dismiss anything against him, there was never any question of his confirmation.  The only reason we are even going through the motions here is because of procedure.  It really doesn't matter what the DNC does, it was over as soon as Trump made his decision.

Can you give some examples of this 'mold' of protesting that was successful.  I really have no clue what you are talking about.  It's as if you are trying to play the middle which I cannot remember has ever been successful.  I believe there will always be people like you which Dr. King talked about.  You would always say, its not your time wait.  Do not march in the streets it will make people unhappy.  Do not protest this way, the right will get angry.  You will always be looking to play the middle and the middle is where you will always be, never getting anything done because you are to scared of shaking things up.  

Can you give enough examples to prove that 'most' started as simple protests that were unlikely to turn into anything more? The cure for cancer and how many more or less people it would help exactly isn't the point. It's the cause itself. Why would I bother doing it if I just wanted to make a point to myself? You say nobody noticed he was doing it, but we also wouldn't know if some people in the crowd saw it and just brushed it off at that point in time, but we do know somebody did notice, a reporter just by chance. When your a celebrity or athlete, the camera is always watching, so to assume you can do your own little protest in peace while on the field without getting noticed, doesn't add up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1PhcVHMKac

Buddy taking a drink on the bench who tosses his cup and doesn't get it in the garbage, get's up to put it in the garbage. This got noticed and a point was made it more widely known. Another guy sitting on the bench flossing, get's noticed, and a point is made to make it more widely known. How is Kap sitting during the anthem any different?

The GOP did change their mind already. They initially decided the hearing would take place Monday, and now it's happening Thursday for her sake. Why do you assume nothing else will change going forward? 

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/23/us/politics/brett-kavanaugh-christine-blasey-ford-testify.html

"Until recently, Judge Kavanaugh’s confirmation seemed all but assured; Dr. Blasey’s testimony has the potential to be a fatal blow."

How about Ford? Like I said before, she was suppressed and has had to live with it for decades, but because she followed the mold the system is working for her as intended. She's isn't being ignored, she isn't being shut down, she's being allowed to give her testimony. Yes, she has had opposition, like anyone protesting anything, but it has been minimal in comparison to many others, which isn't surprising based on how much more civil the issue has been handled by her side, which has led to the other side acting more civil.

Last edited by EricHiggin - on 24 September 2018

HylianSwordsman on 24 September 2018
EricHiggin said:
HylianSwordsman said:

Sitting during the national anthem is as newsworthy as the cure for cancer. You heard it here first folks.

You want to play the hyperbolic analogy game? Fine. Two can play. Not believing Kavanaugh's accuser, the person who actually survived the rape, is like not believing a murdered person if she told you who the murderer is. Imagine the murder victim came back from the dead in a murder case and pointed out the murderer, whom she personally knew because they went to the same school, and people just tell her she was confused and say that there's no evidence that the suspect committed the murder. Also, the accused murderer is about to be appointed to a powerful position, and people say the murder victim came back from the dead just to be political. Then the murder victim asks for an FBI investigation, but people tell her to shut up and testify so they can force through the murderer's nomination, and the murder never gets solved or even investigated because it's inconvenient for the party in power.

So you made a poor point just so you could get to the off topic point, initially made to back up what was said about the main topic, on my part at least?

I also dislike how you've made it clear you think the cure for cancer is more important than ending the suppression of blacks and minorities. They are people to you know.

First, a murder victim coming back from the dead doesn't work unless your point is fictional. Secondly, "That doesn't mean she wasn't assaulted", what I said, means she very well may have been assaulted, so why are you suggesting I don't believe her? Do you think because I pointed out the DNC is potentially using her as a stall tactic, that her case isn't worthy of being heard? If your mad you should be mad at the DNC, not me.

The fact that she asked for an FBI investigation doesn't matter. It's not a federal offence so the FBI has nothing to do with it. I'd like the FBI to investigate why one of my neighbors committed suicide, but that's not going to happen either. She hasn't been told to shut up and testify. The GOP had already set up a date for Monday and she refused and wanted a date later in the week and they said sure let's figure it out. As for her asking for Kavanaugh to go first is never going to happen because not only does the system not work that way, it's for good reason, because until you know exactly what your being accused of and the details of it, how are you supposed to know how to defend yourself? She's obviously trying to imply he's guilty and knows what he did so why can't he go first, but many woman in my life have given me beef because "I just should have known", when I never could have. That's not how life and court/hearings work.

Lol, the cure for cancer is definitely more important than one protest, yes. And I'm suggesting you don't believe her, because you don't. You keep saying you don't. She told you who did it, you don't believe her. The system has no set order that witnesses go in, it could easily go Kavanaugh first. He knows what he's been accused of, he's just there to tell his side of the story. If he says he never met her before in his life, and she credibly refutes that, then he's caught in a lie. If he says he was at the party, but gives a credible explanation of what really happened that throws her story into doubt, and she can't back her story up, then he probably wouldn't be convicted by a jury. Of course, this isn't a jury, it's a congress, and really, it doesn't matter because Kavanaugh could confess to rape but ask to be seated on the court and the Republicans would do it, and Ford could say "sorry guys I was just kidding" and Kavanaugh wouldn't get a single Dem vote because even the red state dems have reasons around his opinions on campaign finance and the role and scope of the executive branch to vote against him. Really, though, if after both have given the testimony, there's even a hint that maybe he's a rapist, confirming him would damage the court's integrity, and he shouldn't be seated. Of course, all this could have been avoided if Trump nominated a different judge from his list. He had a lady lined up that would undercut most of the Dems arguments right now, and almost certainly wouldn't have even an alleged history of sexual crime or misconduct, and she would have been confirmed before September with several red state Dem votes, but Trump wanted the guy who would vote in any Mueller related case that he couldn't be indicted or even investigated as a sitting president because it's too "distracting". It's his fault we're in this mess arguing whether to believe a woman when she says who raped her when you know if this didn't have political consequences we'd all be much more likely to take her account seriously. They keep saying she should have come out in high school, and it's true that if a regular, unknown high school girl accused a regular, not-destined-for-the-supreme-court high school guy of rape, she'd have an easier time, but a)it doesn't always feel that simple when you're a high school girl and b)that's precisely why Republicans come out looking so scummy here, because everyone knows they're only ignoring her complaints because of politics (and no, "hearing her out" is still ignoring her complaints if after hearing what she has to say they ignore it as several have already pledged to do no matter what she says), even as they accuse her of only coming out now because of politics, as though there were any better time to find your courage and speak out about your rapist than when he's about to gain the power to affect a lot of women. And again, Trump could end this at any time by nominating another candidate. He has several that could be confirmed by year's end or even pre-election if he wanted if he would just withdraw this asshole and nominate say, Amy Coney Barrett, who would sail through confirmation and probably instantly become the conservative Ruth Bader Ginsburg. But no, Trump refuses to do that because he can't stand the thought of "losing" even though it wouldn't be an actual loss. He would just perceive it as one and as such is taking the whole country on a ride that needlessly creates conflict.



KLAMarine on 24 September 2018
GhaudePhaede010 said:

I just want to add something I forgot a while ago. Kaepernick once secured a plane and 1 million dollars (much of it his own, non-deductable) for relief during the Somali famine. And since he was not exactly trusting of the human rights groups that were, "helping" in Somalia, he organized it himself and put himself in direct risk to be sure the aid got to its desired destination

Could I get a source for this?

GhaudePhaede010 said:

Just saying, this dude is pretty much one of the best people on the planet and one of the better examples of what it means to be an American. You Americans should be proud of this man, not trying to slander his words and intentions at every waking opportunity.

As a philanthropist, he seems an outstanding person. As an orator, he's disappointing. Somewhat troubling...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5B8VU3JykvI

At around 3:25, he refers to Stephon Clark's shooting as a lynching. Clark was not lynched, he was shot... He mentions "Lawful lynchings" earlier at around 2:03 but as far as I know, I know nothing of any lynchings by police...

Also, he makes constant references to "black and brown" victims of police brutality... No love for white victims? They're the most numerous!.. Per the Washington Post.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings-2017/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings-2016/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings/