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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Mass shooting at EA Madden tournament in Jacksonville, Florida

SpokenTruth said:
JRPGfan said:

Yeah I think putting something like that into effect, would greatly help things.
However because of how easy guns sales have been upto now, it ll take awhile before you truely see the results of it.

It would take time.  Time to implement and time to see a reduction in illegal guns on the streets but the sooner we start, the sooner we save lives.

The problem is if a democratic president somehow manages to get that into effect, the next republican president will likely remove it.
It might not even get the time it needs to really show how effective it could be.



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Farsala said:
Flilix said:

Yeah, but all of these countries where bombings happen regularly are 3rd world countries. The US on the other hand, is still a developed country. It's facing this issue that no other developed country seems to have, yet it doesn't want to do anything about it.

Not just 3rd world countries and not just bombings. The high profile bombings/ terrorist acts in Europe are still a thing and more numerous than in US.

All the terrorist attacks in France (which is the European country with the highest number of terrorism victims) combined add 0.3-0.4 to the countries total in this chart. This shows how rare terrorism actually is in Europe.



Flilix said:
Farsala said:

Not just 3rd world countries and not just bombings. The high profile bombings/ terrorist acts in Europe are still a thing and more numerous than in US.

All the terrorist attacks in France (which is the European country with the highest number of terrorism victims) combined add 0.3-0.4 to the countries total in this chart. This shows how rare terrorism actually is in Europe.

though maybe homicides rather than fire arm deaths would be more appropriate (chart looks the same, essentially...), the effect of terrorism is equally even smaller; 

 

247 killed in 2015-2017, by far the most violent period (peak 2015, of course); that adds 0.12, to the homicide rate, in the period. There's currently a 4 point difference in homicide rates between France and the US. 



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I win if Arms sells over 700 000 units worldwide by the end of 2017.

Bet with WagnerPaiva:

 

I win if Emmanuel Macron wins the french presidential election May 7th 2017.

Flilix said:
Farsala said:

Not just 3rd world countries and not just bombings. The high profile bombings/ terrorist acts in Europe are still a thing and more numerous than in US.

All the terrorist attacks in France (which is the European country with the highest number of terrorism victims) combined add 0.3-0.4 to the countries total in this chart. This shows how rare terrorism actually is in Europe.

While homicide rate in the US has been an issue, it has definitely been in decline over the years. The bigger problem for France is the kidnapping rate and robbery, with Belgium only higher as a European country.

https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/rankings/kidnapping/

https://knoema.com/atlas/ranks/Robbery-rate

 

Note: You won't find the US on the first one there due to differing definitions.



SpokenTruth said:
1. National registry and licensing for all guns and gun owners.
2. Register all gun and ammo sales.
3. Private sales must be notarized and registered.
4. Must pass psych evaluation and safety training every 3 years.
5. Owners must carry Gun Owners Insurance.
6. Cannot own more than 4 guns without a "collectors" license.
7. If you have kids under 18 living in the house, guns must be locked and/or unloaded.
8. National background check prior to any gun or ammo purchase.
9. Criminal history negates license.
10. Illegal gun/ammo sale/ownership results in felony charges.
11. Circumvention of these results in felony charges.

Want to be a responsible gun owner? There you go.

12. Can't buy bullets online.

13. Universal checks for ammunition buyers.



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SpokenTruth said:
1. National registry and licensing for all guns and gun owners.
2. Register all gun and ammo sales.
3. Private sales must be notarized and registered.
4. Must pass psych evaluation and safety training every 3 years.
5. Owners must carry Gun Owners Insurance.
6. Cannot own more than 4 guns without a "collectors" license.
7. If you have kids under 18 living in the house, guns must be locked and/or unloaded.
8. National background check prior to any gun or ammo purchase.
9. Criminal history negates license.
10. Illegal gun/ammo sale/ownership results in felony charges.
11. Circumvention of these results in felony charges.

Want to be a responsible gun owner? There you go.

That's delusional because it has no chance of ever happening. First, 1, 2, 4, 5, 6 are against  the constitution. 3 is a copy of 2. 7 defeats the point having a gun in the house for protection. Any responsible gun owner will teach gun safety to their kids. We already have versions of 9 and 10. 11 is redundant.

If you actually want to reduce the vast majority of murders, illegal drugs/guns and reduce overall crime, go after the gangs and wipe them out. If you want to decrease the amount of mass shootings as it's commonly known and limit the damage when they do happen, use  the relatively appropriate amount of armed security at likely targets. It discourages attempts and there's trained people available to deal with it when it happens. If it doesn't work then why do celebrities have armies of them and are rarely ever attacked even though there's plenty of crazies that are obsessed with them out there? Trump is still  alive because of security. These options wouldn't take long to implement, don't violate people's rights, have no chance of being tied up in decades of litigation, has a real shot at working and they net alot better positives for everyone.



It isn't just bombings though. Every country has their own problems like I said. For say Belgium or France it is kidnapping. For say Russia, Mexico, Ukraine, USA it is murder rate. For say Portugal and Spain it is robbery and muggings. For say UK or Germany it is the "terrorist rate". For Sweden and Australia it is Sexual Assault. Etc. etc.

And btw for the tally of "Europe" it would be difficult to tally it up without a clear definition, because if we include European Russia and Istanbul than the tally for all the bombings in 10 years definitely exceed US mass shooting deaths in a year which is much higher than 40%.

YOU are the one who brought up bombings, I didn't. I simply pointed out they don't come close to a year of US's gun death rate.  Not you, but loads of pro gun people bring up how many knife stabbing there are in the UK etc, where there are no guns. Even if you took knifing murder rates you'd be hard pressed to match gun deaths in the US. Also when was the last time some mass knife murderer managed to kill 58 people from a balcony, like what happened in Las Vegas last year?? Fact is guns make mass killing exponentially easier compared to knifes, if that is *all* someone had to go on a rampage with. Also more people die from gun shot wounds, than from knife wounds. Yet pro gunners don't seem to have the capacity to understand how one weapon is exponentially worse in the hands of the public, than the other!

Since I debunked your bombing statement you now bring up Russia and Turkey. Neither Russia nor Turkey are part of the official borders of the European Union, which is what I was referring to. But since you mentioned Russia, according to this page - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_Russia (which includes deaths from all terrorist activities in the last 10 years, not just bombing) only about 1,100 people have died due to terrorism in 10 years! 

I found this site for Turkey - https://www.kaggle.com/sevgilit/turkey-terrorism-statistics/notebook, but that doesn't look like the combined terrorist deaths would be greater than the US either.

Just to be sure, you are aware over 15,000 people in the US die from gun related deaths with over 30,000 people injured due to guns EVERY YEAR! In any other country that would be considered war zone statistics!! 



Aeolus451 said:

Any responsible gun owner will teach gun safety to their kids. 


Yes that is why the US is the only country in the world where kids, under the age of 4, have killed more people using guns than terrorist have killed US citizens. A world leader! No. 1. USA, USA, USA!! You must be so proud of how responsible gun owners are teaching toddlers to shoot responsibly. Let the Denver post explain it to you - https://www.denverpost.com/2017/09/30/toddler-shootings-guns/

 

Aeolus451 said: 

If you actually want to reduce the vast majority of murders, illegal drugs/guns and reduce overall crime, go after the gangs and wipe them out. If you want to decrease the amount of mass shootings as it's commonly known and limit the damage when they do happen, use  the relatively appropriate amount of armed security at likely targets. It discourages attempts and there's trained people available to deal with it when it happens. If it doesn't work then why do celebrities have armies of them and are rarely ever attacked even though there's plenty of crazies that are obsessed with them out there? Trump is still  alive because of security. These options wouldn't take long to implement, don't violate people's rights, have no chance of being tied up in decades of litigation, has a real shot at working and they net alot better positives for everyone.

Actual facts don't back up your assertions with regard to gang crime. It is a drop in the ocean compared to suicide and relationship related gun deaths.

In 2011, there were 1,824 gang-related killings in 2011, which includes deaths by means other than a gun. In comparison, there were 11,101 homicides and 19,766 suicides committed with firearms in 2011. So ONLY 10% of the murders in 2011 were committed by gangs. So unless there has been a MASSIVE shift in gang related murders since 2011, I'd say shutting down gang related crime is just a red herring to divert away from the bigger issue of guns in "normal" citizens hands.

Suicide is the highest gun related death, see figure above. Using a gun you have a 96%+ chance of dying from the wound. If you try to stab/cut yourself you have a 5% chance of dying. Guns make killing yourself or others easier. Hence why the suggestion of removing/reducing guns = harder to kill others or yourself.

57 percent of mass shootings between 2009 and July 2015 in the US, the shooter targeted a family member or an intimate partner. So your idea of policing certain targets wouldn't work in the majority of cases. Unless you are you proposing each member of your family should think about getting security, because you are a gun owner, that could have a bad day and take it out on someone close to you, according to the stats above. So every gun owning family would need protection from each other!! I'd say that is impractical or do you still think it is feasible?

Last edited by CartBlanche - on 31 August 2018

CartBlanche said:

It isn't just bombings though. Every country has their own problems like I said. For say Belgium or France it is kidnapping. For say Russia, Mexico, Ukraine, USA it is murder rate. For say Portugal and Spain it is robbery and muggings. For say UK or Germany it is the "terrorist rate". For Sweden and Australia it is Sexual Assault. Etc. etc.

And btw for the tally of "Europe" it would be difficult to tally it up without a clear definition, because if we include European Russia and Istanbul than the tally for all the bombings in 10 years definitely exceed US mass shooting deaths in a year which is much higher than 40%.

YOU are the one who brought up bombings, I didn't. I simply pointed out they don't come close to a year of US's gun death rate.  Not you, but loads of pro gun people bring up how many knife stabbing there are in the UK etc, where there are no guns. Even if you took knifing murder rates you'd be hard pressed to match gun deaths in the US. Also when was the last time some mass knife murderer managed to kill 58 people from a balcony, like what happened in Las Vegas last year?? Fact is guns make mass killing exponentially easier compared to knifes, if that is *all* someone had to go on a rampage with. Also more people die from gun shot wounds, than from knife wounds. Yet pro gunners don't seem to have the capacity to understand how one weapon is exponentially worse in the hands of the public, than the other!

Since I debunked your bombing statement you now bring up Russia and Turkey. Neither Russia nor Turkey are part of the official borders of the European Union, which is what I was referring to. But since you mentioned Russia, according to this page - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_Russia (which includes deaths from all terrorist activities in the last 10 years, not just bombing) only about 1,100 people have died due to terrorism in 10 years! 

I found this site for Turkey - https://www.kaggle.com/sevgilit/turkey-terrorism-statistics/notebook, but that doesn't look like the combined terrorist deaths would be greater than the US either.

Just to be sure, you are aware over 15,000 people in the US die from gun related deaths with over 30,000 people injured due to guns EVERY YEAR! In any other country that would be considered war zone statistics!! 

Whoa calm down buddy. I said all countries have their own problems. I even acknowledge USA has a murder problem, but that doesn't mean other countries are saints and don't have problems with bombings, kidnappings, robberies, sexual assault, and etc. Not only that but I said EUROPEAN Russia, and Istanbul. Not all of Russia or Turkey. But yes 1100 deaths to terrorists is definitely a problem especially when compared to the US. But then again it is also Russia with a higher murder rate than US.

Lots of people die in USA, because there are a lot of people in USA. You would be better off arguing with murder rates. Luckily murder rate is down over the years. And considering just how much guns we have the murder rate is quite low. In fact we have more guns per capita than ever before and yet the murder rate or death by firerarm rate is down somehow.



Ka-pi96 said:
CartBlanche said:

Suicide is the highest gun related death, see figure above. Using a gun you have a 96%+ chance of dying from the wound. If you try to stab/cut yourself you have a 5% chance of dying. Guns make killing yourself or others easier. Hence why the suggestion of removing/reducing guns = harder to kill others or yourself.

Absolute tosh. It really doesn't help your argument to make up stats, and not even remotely realistic ones at that!

Your statement highlights nothing about what I mentioned. Are you arguing that someone shooting themselves in the head has a higher chance of survival compared to cutting/stabbing yourself? Or the figure I mentioned previously about suicide gun deaths being higher than other gun deaths?? 

It really doesn't help your argument when you are incapable of being specific about what you are arguing about and are unable to provide counter stats, that you think I made up, just because it doesn't fit with your world view.