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Trump's Personal Lawyer And Campaign Manager Both Going To Prison

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EricHiggin said:
Final-Fan said:

I hardly have a lot of knowledge about U.N. bigwigs but I'm imagining that although a lot of them speak English to some extent, they would get a better understanding of complicated speeches by listening to a professional translator.  But I could be wrong; do you have evidence that most delegates listen to English speeches with their own skills?  Either way, we could debate all day about Trump's mannerisms but I would like to keep this as concrete as possible given the subject matter. 

[edit:  So, let's put this in two broad categories:  one, the audio cues; and two, what Trump actually said that is under discussion.  If you really want to get into Trump's teleprompter habits and the rest of what you mentioned similar to that, let me know and we can make that three. 

[1.  I listened very carefully and I don't think the coughs that are audible like 30 seconds prior have anything to do with anything.  They are isolated noises and did not continue.  I do hear a pickup of noise at about the time he is saying "in the history of our country".  I am extremely skeptical that this is a total coincidence when he just happens to be saying "In less than two years, my administration has accomplished more than ... almost any administration ... in the history of our country.  America's ... so true."  In my opinion you can distinctly hear it in the pause between "country" and "America" and NOT in the two preceding pauses.  If you disagree, let me know, with any specifics you can—and if you agree, please also let me know.  If the noise precedes "America's ... so true", do you think it's a total coincidence and it's not the beginning of the laughter you hear later?  If so, please elaborate.  If they are laughing, then clearly they are laughing at something other than (in addition to) "America's ... so true". 

[2.]  Do you think "America's so true" was intended as a distinct statement, or do you think he said "America's", then broke off from what he was about to say and instead said "So true" as a different statement?  If you think it was a single statement, do you have an idea in your head as to what it actually means?  In other words, what's the joke?  Secondly, when he said "Didn't expect that reaction", do you think he was being facetious as part of the joke (i.e. he was expecting it, but was pretending he didn't as part of the joke)?  If so, what part did that play in the joke?  If not, why did he later say he was aiming to get laughter with what he said? 

See, part of the reason I don't see it as a joke as you do is that I don't know what the joke would even be.  There are people all too eager to say, "Trump is the joke", but that's missing the point. 

It's either one of two things the way I see it. Could be either, maybe both, who knows, but I figured the second option.

Either some of the UN members think Trump is a dummy and laughed at his boasting and statement of "America's so true" because they think Trump is full of it. Not only would this be quite rude at a big event like that, but to see Trump brush it off and go on with his speech no problem, says to me it didn't seem like an attack on him anyway.

or

Trump said it just because it was in the speech and he likes to poke here and there and didn't expect anyone to catch on, or he figured people would catch on that he's basically saying American news is fake news, which would make his statement of "America's so true" so funny, since it's him always pushing the fake news narrative. Trump is constantly put down by the media about how the economy isn't great, or it is but it's all because of Obama. I don't see it being coincidence Trump boasting about exactly that immediately after his "so true" statement.

You very nearly didn't answer a single question I asked you.  But you did answer the question "what's the joke?" for which I thank you.  If I understood you correctly, the joke is that saying "America's so true" is supposed to tell people "American media is so false" which is an absolutely mind-boggling leap for me.  Putting aside that I disagree with his fake news narrative, and even taking into account how often he goes after so-called mainstream media for being fake news, I STILL can't see a good enough connection between America being true and American news being fake for a joke to be likely.  I haven't watched as much of Donald Trump as you have but what I have seen of his comedy is much, much less oblique.  (And if you had to look up that word in the dictionary, that's basically what I'm saying people would have to do with his joke unless they were on the exact same mental wavelength already.)  So basically I have to disagree with your conclusion about what the joke is. 

So right now I have two things I still want to ask you. 

1.  Everything I asked you in #1 in the previous post, which you didn't address at all.  You said you thought the background noise was unrelated, and I think I have a pretty strong case that it's related.  The questions basically present to you my train of thought and ask you to tell me where we part ways. 

2.  If the joke is what you described, why did he say "Didn't expect that reaction", and then later say "that was meant to get some laughter"? 



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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

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Final-Fan said:

You very nearly didn't answer a single question I asked you.  But you did answer the question "what's the joke?" for which I thank you.  If I understood you correctly, the joke is that saying "America's so true" is supposed to tell people "American media is so false" which is an absolutely mind-boggling leap for me.  Putting aside that I disagree with his fake news narrative, and even taking into account how often he goes after so-called mainstream media for being fake news, I STILL can't see a good enough connection between America being true and American news being fake for a joke to be likely.  I haven't watched as much of Donald Trump as you have but what I have seen of his comedy is much, much less oblique.  (And if you had to look up that word in the dictionary, that's basically what I'm saying people would have to do with his joke unless they were on the exact same mental wavelength already.)  So basically I have to disagree with your conclusion about what the joke is. 

So right now I have two things I still want to ask you. 

1.  Everything I asked you in #1 in the previous post, which you didn't address at all.  You said you thought the background noise was unrelated, and I think I have a pretty strong case that it's related.  The questions basically present to you my train of thought and ask you to tell me where we part ways. 

2.  If the joke is what you described, why did he say "Didn't expect that reaction", and then later say "that was meant to get some laughter"? 

The coughing is just a point. There is coughing going on before hand, which just points out that you can't really say it's all laughter. Some might be, but there are many other things it could also be, talking, etc, and could be all of them potentially. It doesn't make sense for people to immediately start laughing as far as I'm concerned. After he goes on for a while and makes it clear he's going to boast for a bit, then laughing could make sense, so the earlier background noise you mention is unlikely to fall into this. Since you say that background noise continues, it makes me believe it's not laughter, unless it's some laughter added to whatever it was beforehand, which could be possible, as many things are at this point. This also puts into question, are they laughing at Trump himself, or what he's saying and how he's saying it, or do they think America isn't doing as well as he says it is and he's lying, or maybe it's just the typical American's boasting about themselves in general that they find funny. There's a bunch of potential reasons.

Trump likes to push buttons, just like how the left likes to do so. Trump laughing it up big time and making it clear everyone is in on the joke, would make it way to obvious to the media and everyone else, that it was about the media, which will cause the media to go into full offensive mode against Trump, since they would be under immediate 'attack'. Trump doesn't mind a fight, but he's tired of swatting the media bees nest with a bat, and just likes to throw stones from a distance now and get those bees a little wound up. By pretending enough that he wasn't expecting that response, the media would at least know it wasn't clear to the world it was about them, if they caught on at all, and would leave Trump alone for the most part. By leave Trump alone, I mean they were going to use anything they could against him during that UN visit regardless, which is to be expected, but Trump didn't want to escalate that.

Trump later saying I meant it to get laughter, is letting the cat out of the bag. Letting the media, if they didn't know (for sure), and the world, that he was making fun of the media the whole time. By waiting some time to let this out, it let's the media calm down if necessary, and allows more news to come to light. Once the news moves on from a smaller story, they really don't like to go back unless they can hit it hard. It was best for them at that point to basically move on and pretend like it never happened, after of course using what Trump said about it being planned all along that it was meant to be a joke, as one last quick shot because 'obviously' that couldn't be true since he's such a 'screw up'.

The media coverage and it's details in the U.S. is quite one sided depending on what station your watching. Many important details that would ruin their point of view on the story are almost always left out, and they never bring them up after the fact. They just move on and leave the audience with the initial story they told. This is part of the reason the U.S is so divided. The lefty stations make it look like the right are horrible people, and the righty stations make it look like the left are crazy. The truth is that if everyone knew all the details, or watched a variety of news, they would be able to get the full complete story each time, and realize sometimes the left is wrong and sometimes the right is wrong, and that's just normal life. Trump wants the news overall to be more fair about how they tell their stories, and most news doesn't want to because of their own business and political reasons.



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EricHiggin said:
SpokenTruth said:

They were laughing at him because he claimed his administration, “has accomplished more than almost any administration in the history of our country.”

I can't believe you are trying to spin this.  I take that back.  I can believe it.  Because his supporters, whom you clearly are, cannot accept any notion of negativity, humility, weakness, or wrong-doing regarding Trump.

Machiavellian said:

I see you found something you can latch on to as if that was what they laughed at.  The fact that there are a bunch of interviews with people that were there and their response is clear it wasn't what you are pushing.  I guess when you want to deny something you actually just grab anything and use it.  Keep the spin going as it does keep a smile on my face as I read your replies.

Watch the speech. He pulls a normal Trump and boasts about himself and his admin, and yet silence. He then pauses, changes tone, and makes his sarcastic point about how 'true' America is, and the place starts howling.

If you were telling a joke, and you finished the joke, yet nobody laughed, and then moved on, and people started laughing after you said something else, you wouldn't assume they were laughing at the initial joke because that wouldn't make any sense. Unless the audience is super slow, which I guess is possible?

I'm glad your so very happy because I am so very very sad, with all the crying, and puking, from all the spinning...   No wonder nobody wants to be on the right...

Yeah, I watched the speech a few times.  The thing about a joke is that its not a joke to everyone.  What I read from the people who were actually there is nothing along the account you present.  While you are trying to build a case that this is some joke from Trump the key is that people who where there and responded on it did not see it as a joke.  The response they game was the boast he made at an international gathering not your "So True" statement.  You can continue to run with that line which I am sure was something you received from another Trump whisperer as they look in the tea leaves to understand the mystical teachings of Trump.

I will continue to be happy as you jump through hoops again trying to lay blame somewhere else besides Trump.  You will blame the left, the Dems, the media which are all the same talking points as Trump.  You will wrap yourself in those very same topics and spill the exactly same crap as you attempt to become Trump whisperer.  Nothing is more funny when people continue to try to deflect what is right in front of them.

What interest me more is why do you believe Trump is on the right.  If anything he is nothing of the sort.  



EricHiggin said:
Final-Fan said:

You very nearly didn't answer a single question I asked you.  But you did answer the question "what's the joke?" for which I thank you.  If I understood you correctly, the joke is that saying "America's so true" is supposed to tell people "American media is so false" which is an absolutely mind-boggling leap for me.  Putting aside that I disagree with his fake news narrative, and even taking into account how often he goes after so-called mainstream media for being fake news, I STILL can't see a good enough connection between America being true and American news being fake for a joke to be likely.  I haven't watched as much of Donald Trump as you have but what I have seen of his comedy is much, much less oblique.  (And if you had to look up that word in the dictionary, that's basically what I'm saying people would have to do with his joke unless they were on the exact same mental wavelength already.)  So basically I have to disagree with your conclusion about what the joke is. 

So right now I have two things I still want to ask you. 

1.  Everything I asked you in #1 in the previous post, which you didn't address at all.  You said you thought the background noise was unrelated, and I think I have a pretty strong case that it's related.  The questions basically present to you my train of thought and ask you to tell me where we part ways. 

2.  If the joke is what you described, why did he say "Didn't expect that reaction", and then later say "that was meant to get some laughter"? 

The coughing is just a point. There is coughing going on before hand, which just points out that you can't really say it's all laughter. Some might be, but there are many other things it could also be, talking, etc, and could be all of them potentially. It doesn't make sense for people to immediately start laughing as far as I'm concerned. After he goes on for a while and makes it clear he's going to boast for a bit, then laughing could make sense, so the earlier background noise you mention is unlikely to fall into this. Since you say that background noise continues, it makes me believe it's not laughter, unless it's some laughter added to whatever it was beforehand, which could be possible, as many things are at this point. This also puts into question, are they laughing at Trump himself, or what he's saying and how he's saying it, or do they think America isn't doing as well as he says it is and he's lying, or maybe it's just the typical American's boasting about themselves in general that they find funny. There's a bunch of potential reasons.

Trump likes to push buttons, just like how the left likes to do so. Trump laughing it up big time and making it clear everyone is in on the joke, would make it way to obvious to the media and everyone else, that it was about the media, which will cause the media to go into full offensive mode against Trump, since they would be under immediate 'attack'. Trump doesn't mind a fight, but he's tired of swatting the media bees nest with a bat, and just likes to throw stones from a distance now and get those bees a little wound up. By pretending enough that he wasn't expecting that response, the media would at least know it wasn't clear to the world it was about them, if they caught on at all, and would leave Trump alone for the most part. By leave Trump alone, I mean they were going to use anything they could against him during that UN visit regardless, which is to be expected, but Trump didn't want to escalate that.

Trump later saying I meant it to get laughter, is letting the cat out of the bag. Letting the media, if they didn't know (for sure), and the world, that he was making fun of the media the whole time. By waiting some time to let this out, it let's the media calm down if necessary, and allows more news to come to light. Once the news moves on from a smaller story, they really don't like to go back unless they can hit it hard. It was best for them at that point to basically move on and pretend like it never happened, after of course using what Trump said about it being planned all along that it was meant to be a joke, as one last quick shot because 'obviously' that couldn't be true since he's such a 'screw up'.

The media coverage and it's details in the U.S. is quite one sided depending on what station your watching. Many important details that would ruin their point of view on the story are almost always left out, and they never bring them up after the fact. They just move on and leave the audience with the initial story they told. This is part of the reason the U.S is so divided. The lefty stations make it look like the right are horrible people, and the righty stations make it look like the left are crazy. The truth is that if everyone knew all the details, or watched a variety of news, they would be able to get the full complete story each time, and realize sometimes the left is wrong and sometimes the right is wrong, and that's just normal life. Trump wants the news overall to be more fair about how they tell their stories, and most news doesn't want to because of their own business and political reasons.

1.  You shouldn't bring up coughing to make a point if the coughing IN NO WAY supports the point you are trying to make.  "Someone made noise at some point, therefore there's tons of background chatter unrelated to the laughter" is total nonsense when in conjunction with the UNDISPUTED fact* that it comes immediately before and builds into the noise that comes later that we both agree is laughter. 

*I asserted it as fact, explicitly asking you to agree or disagree in both of my last two posts and you declined twice; I can only presume you at least don't disagree. 

2.  It makes no sense to me to simultaneously say Trump likes to push buttons, and was trying to push the media's buttons, and yet was also trying to sneak the joke past the media.  If it "wasn't clear to the world", how does it make sense that the line got a big laugh at all?  Are you suggesting that everyone was laughing at a DIFFERENT joke that they perceived Trump as telling?  I mean, I don't intend to hold you accountable for proving 100% what was in Trump's head or the other U.N. delegates' heads, but you're all over the map here with ideas that seem mutually exclusive to me. 

On a different note, I also would like to know what you think about my own theory about what Trump meant by "so true".  Do you think it's actually implausible, or do you think it's plausible but your own idea is even more likely? 



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Machiavellian said:

Yeah, I watched the speech a few times.  The thing about a joke is that its not a joke to everyone.  What I read from the people who were actually there is nothing along the account you present.  While you are trying to build a case that this is some joke from Trump the key is that people who where there and responded on it did not see it as a joke.  The response they game was the boast he made at an international gathering not your "So True" statement.  You can continue to run with that line which I am sure was something you received from another Trump whisperer as they look in the tea leaves to understand the mystical teachings of Trump.

I will continue to be happy as you jump through hoops again trying to lay blame somewhere else besides Trump.  You will blame the left, the Dems, the media which are all the same talking points as Trump.  You will wrap yourself in those very same topics and spill the exactly same crap as you attempt to become Trump whisperer.  Nothing is more funny when people continue to try to deflect what is right in front of them.

What interest me more is why do you believe Trump is on the right.  If anything he is nothing of the sort.  

Correct. Some might be laughing, some might not. I'm not building any case, I'm simply being asked a bunch of questions and being asked to reply to them in the most specific of ways. If you'd rather I answer in a more generalized fashion on the talking point I'd be happy to, but someone else may not. Some people may have laughed, and some may have not, which I mentioned in another post recently, just not involving you. What exactly and for what reason they were laughing is also questionable. Tea Party, or is that a mystical thought?

Laying blame? This was about them laughing initially, in which you implied was Trumps fault. I would call that blame, but that's just me. Your talking points aren't much different than what the Dems, left, and media are spouting, so who's the whisper follower? So your laughing while I'm just stating possibilities? Good to know since I'm so true.

I don't recall saying I think Trump is specifically a righty, just like I recall mentioning I'm not specifically either. You ever wonder how many Independents or Libertarians are looking for answers and end up being treated the way I have here at times? Wondering why Trump won and seems to be staying if not getting more popular?

Final-Fan said:

1.  You shouldn't bring up coughing to make a point if the coughing IN NO WAY supports the point you are trying to make.  "Someone made noise at some point, therefore there's tons of background chatter unrelated to the laughter" is total nonsense when in conjunction with the UNDISPUTED fact* that it comes immediately before and builds into the noise that comes later that we both agree is laughter. 

*I asserted it as fact, explicitly asking you to agree or disagree in both of my last two posts and you declined twice; I can only presume you at least don't disagree. 

2.  It makes no sense to me to simultaneously say Trump likes to push buttons, and was trying to push the media's buttons, and yet was also trying to sneak the joke past the media.  If it "wasn't clear to the world", how does it make sense that the line got a big laugh at all?  Are you suggesting that everyone was laughing at a DIFFERENT joke that they perceived Trump as telling?  I mean, I don't intend to hold you accountable for proving 100% what was in Trump's head or the other U.N. delegates' heads, but you're all over the map here with ideas that seem mutually exclusive to me. 

On a different note, I also would like to know what you think about my own theory about what Trump meant by "so true".  Do you think it's actually implausible, or do you think it's plausible but your own idea is even more likely? 

Coughing typically isn't a one time deal, along with chatter, etc, so it's quite possible it could be part of it. To assume it's all only laughter is like assuming the ocean is nothing but water when looking and listening from a distance, which is what you would think initially. There's much else going on in that water though. I said it could be all of the above.

Well the media made it clear Trump was being laughed at and not the media, so they either wouldn't know or they would be covering that up by making a case against Trump. The fact that I and a few of my friends thought it was about the media, which was before we had heard anything else other than the initial articles saying it was Trump, shows that some of the UN may have thought the same thing. Other friends have stated they believe the media's view is correct. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, maybe it's both.

I don't think he went off script. He could have since he does sometimes, so like I've said a few times here, there's a bunch of possibilities, but his head and eye movements and body language say to me he's reading and then speaking, even during his "America's so true" point. There could have been some laughter before that as well yes. So are you saying that Trump may have gone off script in reaction to the laughter? It's hard to believe if that's the case, that he wasn't looking for more laughs, and by saying what he said, he sure got that.



The Canadian National Anthem According To Justin Trudeau

 

Oh planet Earth! The home of native lands, 
True social law, in all of us demand.
With cattle farts, we view sea rise,
Our North sinking slowly.
From far and snide, oh planet Earth, 
Our healthcare is yours free!
Science save our land, harnessing the breeze,
Oh planet Earth, smoke weed and ferment yeast.
Oh planet Earth, ell gee bee queue and tee.

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EricHiggin said:
Machiavellian said:

Yeah, I watched the speech a few times.  The thing about a joke is that its not a joke to everyone.  What I read from the people who were actually there is nothing along the account you present.  While you are trying to build a case that this is some joke from Trump the key is that people who where there and responded on it did not see it as a joke.  The response they game was the boast he made at an international gathering not your "So True" statement.  You can continue to run with that line which I am sure was something you received from another Trump whisperer as they look in the tea leaves to understand the mystical teachings of Trump.

I will continue to be happy as you jump through hoops again trying to lay blame somewhere else besides Trump.  You will blame the left, the Dems, the media which are all the same talking points as Trump.  You will wrap yourself in those very same topics and spill the exactly same crap as you attempt to become Trump whisperer.  Nothing is more funny when people continue to try to deflect what is right in front of them.

What interest me more is why do you believe Trump is on the right.  If anything he is nothing of the sort.  

Correct. Some might be laughing, some might not. I'm not building any case, I'm simply being asked a bunch of questions and being asked to reply to them in the most specific of ways. If you'd rather I answer in a more generalized fashion on the talking point I'd be happy to, but someone else may not. Some people may have laughed, and some may have not, which I mentioned in another post recently, just not involving you. What exactly and for what reason they were laughing is also questionable. Tea Party, or is that a mystical thought?

Laying blame? This was about them laughing initially, in which you implied was Trumps fault. I would call that blame, but that's just me. Your talking points aren't much different than what the Dems, left, and media are spouting, so who's the whisper follower? So your laughing while I'm just stating possibilities? Good to know since I'm so true.

I don't recall saying I think Trump is specifically a righty, just like I recall mentioning I'm not specifically either. You ever wonder how many Independents or Libertarians are looking for answers and end up being treated the way I have here at times? Wondering why Trump won and seems to be staying if not getting more popular?

Final-Fan said:

1.  You shouldn't bring up coughing to make a point if the coughing IN NO WAY supports the point you are trying to make.  "Someone made noise at some point, therefore there's tons of background chatter unrelated to the laughter" is total nonsense when in conjunction with the UNDISPUTED fact* that it comes immediately before and builds into the noise that comes later that we both agree is laughter. 

*I asserted it as fact, explicitly asking you to agree or disagree in both of my last two posts and you declined twice; I can only presume you at least don't disagree. 

2.  It makes no sense to me to simultaneously say Trump likes to push buttons, and was trying to push the media's buttons, and yet was also trying to sneak the joke past the media.  If it "wasn't clear to the world", how does it make sense that the line got a big laugh at all?  Are you suggesting that everyone was laughing at a DIFFERENT joke that they perceived Trump as telling?  I mean, I don't intend to hold you accountable for proving 100% what was in Trump's head or the other U.N. delegates' heads, but you're all over the map here with ideas that seem mutually exclusive to me. 

On a different note, I also would like to know what you think about my own theory about what Trump meant by "so true".  Do you think it's actually implausible, or do you think it's plausible but your own idea is even more likely? 

Coughing typically isn't a one time deal, along with chatter, etc, so it's quite possible it could be part of it. To assume it's all only laughter is like assuming the ocean is nothing but water when looking and listening from a distance, which is what you would think initially. There's much else going on in that water though. I said it could be all of the above.

Well the media made it clear Trump was being laughed at and not the media, so they either wouldn't know or they would be covering that up by making a case against Trump. The fact that I and a few of my friends thought it was about the media, which was before we had heard anything else other than the initial articles saying it was Trump, shows that some of the UN may have thought the same thing. Other friends have stated they believe the media's view is correct. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, maybe it's both.

I don't think he went off script. He could have since he does sometimes, so like I've said a few times here, there's a bunch of possibilities, but his head and eye movements and body language say to me he's reading and then speaking, even during his "America's so true" point. There could have been some laughter before that as well yes. So are you saying that Trump may have gone off script in reaction to the laughter? It's hard to believe if that's the case, that he wasn't looking for more laughs, and by saying what he said, he sure got that.

1.  Please go back to the clip of the speech.  It's almost dead silence (the coughs you mentioned being a notable exception that simply highlights how quiet it otherwise is) until the key point where the audience reacts to what he is saying.  I'm not saying it's nothing but laughter but I'm saying it's clearly a reaction to what he is saying, which includes the laughter. 

2.  You didn't answer this. 

3.  (my interpretation) you didn't answer this. 

4.  (off script) Yes, I think that he went off script.  By my interpretation, Trump managed to turn "laughing at" into "laughing with", which I think everyone would agree is a positive for him. 

This is more or less how I suspect it went down:  He gave the line "In less than two years, my administration has accomplished more than ... almost any administration ... in the history of our country."  His next line was going to be "America's economy is booming like never before", but as he was beginning that sentence he noticed that the crowd was reacting to his previous statement, and said "So true" to reinforce the point he had made (cutting off his own sentence, creating the "America's so true" line).  This caused even greater audience reaction (which includes obvious laughter by this point if not sooner) and he rolled with it and got some more laughs.  You'll notice that when he said "Didn't expect that reaction, but that's okay" the laughter increased by a huge amount and he even got some applause. So going back to point 3, do you think that's an unrealistic interpretation, or do you think that although it's plausible your interpretation is even more likely?  Or as a third possibility, now that I've laid it all out like that do you think what I just described is more likely after all? 



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
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1. *Trump lies*
2. *Crowd snickers*
3. *Trump reinforces the lie*
4. *Crowd laughs*


So true.



Massimus - "Trump already has democrat support."

Final-Fan said:
EricHiggin said: 

Coughing typically isn't a one time deal, along with chatter, etc, so it's quite possible it could be part of it. To assume it's all only laughter is like assuming the ocean is nothing but water when looking and listening from a distance, which is what you would think initially. There's much else going on in that water though. I said it could be all of the above.

Well the media made it clear Trump was being laughed at and not the media, so they either wouldn't know or they would be covering that up by making a case against Trump. The fact that I and a few of my friends thought it was about the media, which was before we had heard anything else other than the initial articles saying it was Trump, shows that some of the UN may have thought the same thing. Other friends have stated they believe the media's view is correct. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, maybe it's both.

I don't think he went off script. He could have since he does sometimes, so like I've said a few times here, there's a bunch of possibilities, but his head and eye movements and body language say to me he's reading and then speaking, even during his "America's so true" point. There could have been some laughter before that as well yes. So are you saying that Trump may have gone off script in reaction to the laughter? It's hard to believe if that's the case, that he wasn't looking for more laughs, and by saying what he said, he sure got that.

1.  Please go back to the clip of the speech.  It's almost dead silence (the coughs you mentioned being a notable exception that simply highlights how quiet it otherwise is) until the key point where the audience reacts to what he is saying.  I'm not saying it's nothing but laughter but I'm saying it's clearly a reaction to what he is saying, which includes the laughter. 

2.  You didn't answer this. 

3.  (my interpretation) you didn't answer this. 

4.  (off script) Yes, I think that he went off script.  By my interpretation, Trump managed to turn "laughing at" into "laughing with", which I think everyone would agree is a positive for him. 

This is more or less how I suspect it went down:  He gave the line "In less than two years, my administration has accomplished more than ... almost any administration ... in the history of our country."  His next line was going to be "America's economy is booming like never before", but as he was beginning that sentence he noticed that the crowd was reacting to his previous statement, and said "So true" to reinforce the point he had made (cutting off his own sentence, creating the "America's so true" line).  This caused even greater audience reaction (which includes obvious laughter by this point if not sooner) and he rolled with it and got some more laughs.  You'll notice that when he said "Didn't expect that reaction, but that's okay" the laughter increased by a huge amount and he even got some applause. So going back to point 3, do you think that's an unrealistic interpretation, or do you think that although it's plausible your interpretation is even more likely?  Or as a third possibility, now that I've laid it all out like that do you think what I just described is more likely after all? 

My interpretation, I did answer, your just not reading or understanding what I'm saying, even after rephrasing some of what I've said prior, or you don't like my answer and are deflecting.

If you think one of the options is more plausible, then that's your opinion and that's fine. All of the above is possible so take your pick. We're not going to completely agree based on where we started, because there is no way for either of us to know exactly how everything came together, and there are too many variables to narrow it down to one indisputable outcome.



The Canadian National Anthem According To Justin Trudeau

 

Oh planet Earth! The home of native lands, 
True social law, in all of us demand.
With cattle farts, we view sea rise,
Our North sinking slowly.
From far and snide, oh planet Earth, 
Our healthcare is yours free!
Science save our land, harnessing the breeze,
Oh planet Earth, smoke weed and ferment yeast.
Oh planet Earth, ell gee bee queue and tee.

EricHiggin said:
Final-Fan said:

1.  Please go back to the clip of the speech.  It's almost dead silence (the coughs you mentioned being a notable exception that simply highlights how quiet it otherwise is) until the key point where the audience reacts to what he is saying.  I'm not saying it's nothing but laughter but I'm saying it's clearly a reaction to what he is saying, which includes the laughter. 

2.  You didn't answer this. 

3.  (my interpretation) you didn't answer this. 

4.  (off script) Yes, I think that he went off script.  By my interpretation, Trump managed to turn "laughing at" into "laughing with", which I think everyone would agree is a positive for him. 

This is more or less how I suspect it went down:  He gave the line "In less than two years, my administration has accomplished more than ... almost any administration ... in the history of our country."  His next line was going to be "America's economy is booming like never before", but as he was beginning that sentence he noticed that the crowd was reacting to his previous statement, and said "So true" to reinforce the point he had made (cutting off his own sentence, creating the "America's so true" line).  This caused even greater audience reaction (which includes obvious laughter by this point if not sooner) and he rolled with it and got some more laughs.  You'll notice that when he said "Didn't expect that reaction, but that's okay" the laughter increased by a huge amount and he even got some applause. So going back to point 3, do you think that's an unrealistic interpretation, or do you think that although it's plausible your interpretation is even more likely?  Or as a third possibility, now that I've laid it all out like that do you think what I just described is more likely after all? 

My interpretation, I did answer, your just not reading or understanding what I'm saying, even after rephrasing some of what I've said prior, or you don't like my answer and are deflecting.

If you think one of the options is more plausible, then that's your opinion and that's fine. All of the above is possible so take your pick. We're not going to completely agree based on where we started, because there is no way for either of us to know exactly how everything came together, and there are too many variables to narrow it down to one indisputable outcome.

First off, please note that despite #2 being the biggest part of my post it is actually the least critical.  In other words, stop brushing off 1, 3, &4. 

1.  You didn't answer this.  Considering it's the only direct evidence either of us have, it's concerning to me that you want to focus exclusively on what we have much more limited information on.  Even if you disagree with my interpretation of the evidence you ought to either get on the same page as me as far as the actual facts of what is on the audio clip, or go on the record with where you disagree with me about those facts.  Half the reason the country is so fucking divided is that people aren't even living in the same perceived reality anymore, and the fact that you are fighting me tooth and nail on the very idea of establishing what the facts are (let alone fighting over what those facts actually are) is infuriating

2.  I said, "It makes no sense to me to simultaneously say Trump likes to push buttons, and was trying to push the media's buttons, and yet was also trying to sneak the joke past the media.  If it "wasn't clear to the world", how does it make sense that the line got a big laugh at all?  Are you suggesting that everyone was laughing at a DIFFERENT joke that they perceived Trump as telling?"

Questions I asked: 
a—How could Trump simultaneously be pushing people's buttons and also hiding the thing that is supposedly pushing their buttons from them?  In other words, how could he intend for the media to get riled up while also intending to hide from the media the thing that could potentially rile them up? 
b—If he was hiding it from "the world", how did the U.N. audience spot it?  Or conversely, if the U.N. audience didn't spot it, what were they laughing at? 

What you said: 
"Well the media made it clear Trump was being laughed at and not the media, so they either wouldn't know or they would be covering that up by making a case against Trump. The fact that I and a few of my friends thought it was about the media, which was before we had heard anything else other than the initial articles saying it was Trump, shows that some of the UN may have thought the same thing."
a—Either you didn't answer, or you are abandoning the idea you earlier claimed that he was intentionally hiding the joke from the media without telling me. 
b—The only thing you said relevant to my question was that you and some but not all of your likeminded friends chose to interpret this as a secret coded genius message that the media either is too dumb to understand or is actively lying about.  This is not very on point. 

Now, I will admit that it's possible that I was also off target in the question I directed at you based on your posts.  If my question #2 was relevant to what you were saying (even though you disagree) then please ignore this paragraph.  If you feel my question was off target then you should have been the one to bring this up explicitly, not me; but please read on.  Looking back, I may have overstated my point relative to what you originally said, which may have been closer to (paraphrased), "the plan was to make a joke that wasn't too blatant an attack so that the media may or may see it but they wouldn't jump all over him".  If I was previously missing the mark but have now more accurately addressed your original point, it's still extremely unconvincing to me on at least two levels: 
—He makes blatant attacks on parts of the media all the time (why avoid it now?);
—The media jumped all over him (while the blatant attacks usually get less coverage);
—The joke logic you cite is a huge stretch to me (this part is the only thing you answered; your anecdotal evidence is a fair though limited counterpoint). 

3&4.  You didn't answer this.  You said "any are possible" (well technically you said "all ... are possible" which is false) but that doesn't answer the question of "do you think my idea is wildly less likely than yours, or just somewhat or a little less likely?"  While I'm at it, how likely do you think your explanation is to be right?  In other words, are you highly confident in your explanation or is it just more likely than anything else you've thought of despite not being very confident? 



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

I'm not going to pretend that David Pakman isn't biased, but in my experience he's pretty honest about presenting his facts. In this video he shows evidence that the UN delegates were laughing at Trump's claimed accomplishments (not at the media):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ng9V5F2a1lE



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom!