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Forums - Politics Discussion - Trump's Personal Lawyer And Campaign Manager Both Going To Prison

EricHiggin said:

Unless I missed something, the whole "one diplomat" here and another "diplomat" there comments, mean nothing, because they didn't state they were actually there. They could have spoken to any diplomat and got their opinion. Even if these people were there, and they were laughing at him, one or two does not count for squat out of everyone who was present. It's not like there were only 10 people in the room.

The guy who's always pointing out 'fake news' makes a comment about how 'true' America is, in a somewhat sarcastic tone, pausing between America's and so true, and the only possible conclusion is they must be laughing at Trump? Considering he had the last laugh and bushed it off, seems just as likely it wasn't about him, knowing how he typically reacts.

I see you found something you can latch on to as if that was what they laughed at.  The fact that there are a bunch of interviews with people that were there and their response is clear it wasn't what you are pushing.  I guess when you want to deny something you actually just grab anything and use it.  Keep the spin going as it does keep a smile on my face as I read your replies.



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SpokenTruth said:

They were laughing at him because he claimed his administration, “has accomplished more than almost any administration in the history of our country.”

I can't believe you are trying to spin this.  I take that back.  I can believe it.  Because his supporters, whom you clearly are, cannot accept any notion of negativity, humility, weakness, or wrong-doing regarding Trump.

Machiavellian said:

I see you found something you can latch on to as if that was what they laughed at.  The fact that there are a bunch of interviews with people that were there and their response is clear it wasn't what you are pushing.  I guess when you want to deny something you actually just grab anything and use it.  Keep the spin going as it does keep a smile on my face as I read your replies.

Watch the speech. He pulls a normal Trump and boasts about himself and his admin, and yet silence. He then pauses, changes tone, and makes his sarcastic point about how 'true' America is, and the place starts howling.

If you were telling a joke, and you finished the joke, yet nobody laughed, and then moved on, and people started laughing after you said something else, you wouldn't assume they were laughing at the initial joke because that wouldn't make any sense. Unless the audience is super slow, which I guess is possible?

I'm glad your so very happy because I am so very very sad, with all the crying, and puking, from all the spinning...   No wonder nobody wants to be on the right...



EricHiggin said:
SpokenTruth said:

They were laughing at him because he claimed his administration, “has accomplished more than almost any administration in the history of our country.”

I can't believe you are trying to spin this.  I take that back.  I can believe it.  Because his supporters, whom you clearly are, cannot accept any notion of negativity, humility, weakness, or wrong-doing regarding Trump.

Machiavellian said:

I see you found something you can latch on to as if that was what they laughed at.  The fact that there are a bunch of interviews with people that were there and their response is clear it wasn't what you are pushing.  I guess when you want to deny something you actually just grab anything and use it.  Keep the spin going as it does keep a smile on my face as I read your replies.

Watch the speech. He pulls a normal Trump and boasts about himself and his admin, and yet silence. He then pauses, changes tone, and makes his sarcastic point about how 'true' America is, and the place starts howling.

If you were telling a joke, and you finished the joke, yet nobody laughed, and then moved on, and people started laughing after you said something else, you wouldn't assume they were laughing at the initial joke because that wouldn't make any sense. Unless the audience is super slow, which I guess is possible?

I'm glad your so very happy because I am so very very sad, with all the crying, and puking, from all the spinning...   No wonder nobody wants to be on the right...

I watched it.  It seemed to me that after his boast, there was a commotion in the background noise that could well be people starting to laugh or otherwise react incredulously.  This prompts Trump to pause and then go off script and say "so true", which causes more laughter.  (Don't you think he seems to be reacting to something here?)  Frankly, I think he played it off about as well as he could; I've never said Trump doesn't know how to work a crowd.  The only problem is later when he says things like he purposely meant it as a laugh line when that definitely doesn't appear to have been the case, going by his own comment at the time. 

Heck, I bet a lot of the UN guys are listening through their interpreters, so a delay before the laughter would be totally expected in that case for a lot (but not all) of the listeners.  What do you think of that—agree or disagree that this is highly plausible? 

To me, anyone who thinks Trump was actually saying "America's so true" as a statement is being foolish.  It seems clear in context that he interrupted himself.  After he resumes his speech, it goes, "America's economy blah blah blah".  It seems clear to me that he began that sentence ("America's"), then interrupted himself and said "So true", probably referring to his earlier statement about accomplishing more than almost any other U.S. administration.  I'd like to know who, if any, of you guys disagree with that assessment. 



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Final-Fan said:
EricHiggin said:

Watch the speech. He pulls a normal Trump and boasts about himself and his admin, and yet silence. He then pauses, changes tone, and makes his sarcastic point about how 'true' America is, and the place starts howling.

If you were telling a joke, and you finished the joke, yet nobody laughed, and then moved on, and people started laughing after you said something else, you wouldn't assume they were laughing at the initial joke because that wouldn't make any sense. Unless the audience is super slow, which I guess is possible?

I'm glad your so very happy because I am so very very sad, with all the crying, and puking, from all the spinning...   No wonder nobody wants to be on the right...

I watched it.  It seemed to me that after his boast, there was a commotion in the background noise that could well be people starting to laugh or otherwise react incredulously.  This prompts Trump to pause and then go off script and say "so true", which causes more laughter.  (Don't you think he seems to be reacting to something here?)  Frankly, I think he played it off about as well as he could; I've never said Trump doesn't know how to work a crowd.  The only problem is later when he says things like he purposely meant it as a laugh line when that definitely doesn't appear to have been the case, going by his own comment at the time. 

Heck, I bet a lot of the UN guys are listening through their interpreters, so a delay before the laughter would be totally expected in that case for a lot (but not all) of the listeners.  What do you think of that—agree or disagree that this is highly plausible? 

To me, anyone who thinks Trump was actually saying "America's so true" as a statement is being foolish.  It seems clear in context that he interrupted himself.  After he resumes his speech, it goes, "America's economy blah blah blah".  It seems clear to me that he began that sentence ("America's"), then interrupted himself and said "So true", probably referring to his earlier statement about accomplishing more than almost any other U.S. administration.  I'd like to know who, if any, of you guys disagree with that assessment. 

Background noise is pretty hard to hear but well before he get's to the phrase, you do hear what seems to be a couple coughs in the background. It's hard to distinguish what it is exactly. Could be people chatting, which may be about anything. To assume each and every person is focused solely on what Trump is saying is unlikely. As for going off script, he sure looks to be reading off the teleprompters, especially when he says "America's" but turns away and leans a little and tilts his head twice quickly facing the same direction when he says "so true", as if to point out he's not being genuine. Trump tends to stand tall and firm when he's being honest and direct and only tilts his head slightly when he's changing teleprompters. The way I see it, if they were laughing at him, and then he mentions he apparently wasn't expecting that response, to which he gets even more laughter and a big applause as he chuckles, says to me they are laughing with him and not against him. If they hated him, laughing with him doesn't fit. You could also say Trump is laughing with them as they laugh at him, but that doesn't fit because that's surely not how he is portrayed to the world. He's a mean guy that everyone hates apparently.

Sure it's possible some people are listening to their interpreters but to assume most of them can't speak English, or would rather have a translator so they can hear it in their native language, which would leave room for error, seems unlikely. It would also be extremely coincidental for the majority of the laughter to all come immediately at the same time, right after "America's so true". To assume all of the different translators ended their explanation close enough to allow for timing that perfectly between the majority makes it even less believable. Possible? Maybe, but a less likely scenario in my opinion.

He could have planned it to be a joke and pretended he didn't mean it that way, probably so the media wouldn't rip his head off for implying fake news once again, but it's hard to say. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. One way or another, that laughter was going to be used against him, or wouldn't be shown at all if it catered to him. As straightforward as he usually is, at times he can be hard to read, which makes sense, since he's a billionaire businessman. You don't get rich if you can't bluff. If he by chance had gone off script, there's no way he meant what he said. It most likely was a joke. Which would also make sense. When your about to give a generalized speech, especially like where his speech went afterwards for the duration, lightening up the room isn't exactly a bad idea early on. This way when he starts saying tough things that other countries aren't going to like, they can refer back to the fact that he's not a total dick and has another side to him.



EricHiggin said:
Final-Fan said:

I watched it.  It seemed to me that after his boast, there was a commotion in the background noise that could well be people starting to laugh or otherwise react incredulously.  This prompts Trump to pause and then go off script and say "so true", which causes more laughter.  (Don't you think he seems to be reacting to something here?)  Frankly, I think he played it off about as well as he could; I've never said Trump doesn't know how to work a crowd.  The only problem is later when he says things like he purposely meant it as a laugh line when that definitely doesn't appear to have been the case, going by his own comment at the time. 

Heck, I bet a lot of the UN guys are listening through their interpreters, so a delay before the laughter would be totally expected in that case for a lot (but not all) of the listeners.  What do you think of that—agree or disagree that this is highly plausible? 

To me, anyone who thinks Trump was actually saying "America's so true" as a statement is being foolish.  It seems clear in context that he interrupted himself.  After he resumes his speech, it goes, "America's economy blah blah blah".  It seems clear to me that he began that sentence ("America's"), then interrupted himself and said "So true", probably referring to his earlier statement about accomplishing more than almost any other U.S. administration.  I'd like to know who, if any, of you guys disagree with that assessment. 

Background noise is pretty hard to hear but well before he get's to the phrase, you do hear what seems to be a couple coughs in the background. It's hard to distinguish what it is exactly. Could be people chatting, which may be about anything. To assume each and every person is focused solely on what Trump is saying is unlikely. As for going off script, he sure looks to be reading off the teleprompters, especially when he says "America's" but turns away and leans a little and tilts his head twice quickly facing the same direction when he says "so true", as if to point out he's not being genuine. Trump tends to stand tall and firm when he's being honest and direct and only tilts his head slightly when he's changing teleprompters. The way I see it, if they were laughing at him, and then he mentions he apparently wasn't expecting that response, to which he gets even more laughter and a big applause as he chuckles, says to me they are laughing with him and not against him. If they hated him, laughing with him doesn't fit. You could also say Trump is laughing with them as they laugh at him, but that doesn't fit because that's surely not how he is portrayed to the world. He's a mean guy that everyone hates apparently.

Sure it's possible some people are listening to their interpreters but to assume most of them can't speak English, or would rather have a translator so they can hear it in their native language, which would leave room for error, seems unlikely. It would also be extremely coincidental for the majority of the laughter to all come immediately at the same time, right after "America's so true". To assume all of the different translators ended their explanation close enough to allow for timing that perfectly between the majority makes it even less believable. Possible? Maybe, but a less likely scenario in my opinion.

He could have planned it to be a joke and pretended he didn't mean it that way, probably so the media wouldn't rip his head off for implying fake news once again, but it's hard to say. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. One way or another, that laughter was going to be used against him, or wouldn't be shown at all if it catered to him. As straightforward as he usually is, at times he can be hard to read, which makes sense, since he's a billionaire businessman. You don't get rich if you can't bluff. If he by chance had gone off script, there's no way he meant what he said. It most likely was a joke. Which would also make sense. When your about to give a generalized speech, especially like where his speech went afterwards for the duration, lightening up the room isn't exactly a bad idea early on. This way when he starts saying tough things that other countries aren't going to like, they can refer back to the fact that he's not a total dick and has another side to him.

I hardly have a lot of knowledge about U.N. bigwigs but I'm imagining that although a lot of them speak English to some extent, they would get a better understanding of complicated speeches by listening to a professional translator.  But I could be wrong; do you have evidence that most delegates listen to English speeches with their own skills?  Either way, we could debate all day about Trump's mannerisms but I would like to keep this as concrete as possible given the subject matter. 

[edit:  So, let's put this in two broad categories:  one, the audio cues; and two, what Trump actually said that is under discussion.  If you really want to get into Trump's teleprompter habits and the rest of what you mentioned similar to that, let me know and we can make that three. 

[1.  I listened very carefully and I don't think the coughs that are audible like 30 seconds prior have anything to do with anything.  They are isolated noises and did not continue.  I do hear a pickup of noise at about the time he is saying "in the history of our country".  I am extremely skeptical that this is a total coincidence when he just happens to be saying "In less than two years, my administration has accomplished more than ... almost any administration ... in the history of our country.  America's ... so true."  In my opinion you can distinctly hear it in the pause between "country" and "America" and NOT in the two preceding pauses.  If you disagree, let me know, with any specifics you can—and if you agree, please also let me know.  If the noise precedes "America's ... so true", do you think it's a total coincidence and it's not the beginning of the laughter you hear later?  If so, please elaborate.  If they are laughing, then clearly they are laughing at something other than (in addition to) "America's ... so true". 

[2.]  Do you think "America's so true" was intended as a distinct statement, or do you think he said "America's", then broke off from what he was about to say and instead said "So true" as a different statement?  If you think it was a single statement, do you have an idea in your head as to what it actually means?  In other words, what's the joke?  Secondly, when he said "Didn't expect that reaction", do you think he was being facetious as part of the joke (i.e. he was expecting it, but was pretending he didn't as part of the joke)?  If so, what part did that play in the joke?  If not, why did he later say he was aiming to get laughter with what he said? 

See, part of the reason I don't see it as a joke as you do is that I don't know what the joke would even be.  There are people all too eager to say, "Trump is the joke", but that's missing the point. 

Last edited by Final-Fan - on 30 September 2018

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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

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Final-Fan said:

I hardly have a lot of knowledge about U.N. bigwigs but I'm imagining that although a lot of them speak English to some extent, they would get a better understanding of complicated speeches by listening to a professional translator.  But I could be wrong; do you have evidence that most delegates listen to English speeches with their own skills?  Either way, we could debate all day about Trump's mannerisms but I would like to keep this as concrete as possible given the subject matter. 

[edit:  So, let's put this in two broad categories:  one, the audio cues; and two, what Trump actually said that is under discussion.  If you really want to get into Trump's teleprompter habits and the rest of what you mentioned similar to that, let me know and we can make that three. 

[1.  I listened very carefully and I don't think the coughs that are audible like 30 seconds prior have anything to do with anything.  They are isolated noises and did not continue.  I do hear a pickup of noise at about the time he is saying "in the history of our country".  I am extremely skeptical that this is a total coincidence when he just happens to be saying "In less than two years, my administration has accomplished more than ... almost any administration ... in the history of our country.  America's ... so true."  In my opinion you can distinctly hear it in the pause between "country" and "America" and NOT in the two preceding pauses.  If you disagree, let me know, with any specifics you can—and if you agree, please also let me know.  If the noise precedes "America's ... so true", do you think it's a total coincidence and it's not the beginning of the laughter you hear later?  If so, please elaborate.  If they are laughing, then clearly they are laughing at something other than (in addition to) "America's ... so true". 

[2.]  Do you think "America's so true" was intended as a distinct statement, or do you think he said "America's", then broke off from what he was about to say and instead said "So true" as a different statement?  If you think it was a single statement, do you have an idea in your head as to what it actually means?  In other words, what's the joke?  Secondly, when he said "Didn't expect that reaction", do you think he was being facetious as part of the joke (i.e. he was expecting it, but was pretending he didn't as part of the joke)?  If so, what part did that play in the joke?  If not, why did he later say he was aiming to get laughter with what he said? 

See, part of the reason I don't see it as a joke as you do is that I don't know what the joke would even be.  There are people all too eager to say, "Trump is the joke", but that's missing the point. 

It's either one of two things the way I see it. Could be either, maybe both, who knows, but I figured the second option.

Either some of the UN members think Trump is a dummy and laughed at his boasting and statement of "America's so true" because they think Trump is full of it. Not only would this be quite rude at a big event like that, but to see Trump brush it off and go on with his speech no problem, says to me it didn't seem like an attack on him anyway.

or

Trump said it just because it was in the speech and he likes to poke here and there and didn't expect anyone to catch on, or he figured people would catch on that he's basically saying American news is fake news, which would make his statement of "America's so true" so funny, since it's him always pushing the fake news narrative. Trump is constantly put down by the media about how the economy isn't great, or it is but it's all because of Obama. I don't see it being coincidence Trump boasting about exactly that immediately after his "so true" statement.



EricHiggin said:
Final-Fan said:

I hardly have a lot of knowledge about U.N. bigwigs but I'm imagining that although a lot of them speak English to some extent, they would get a better understanding of complicated speeches by listening to a professional translator.  But I could be wrong; do you have evidence that most delegates listen to English speeches with their own skills?  Either way, we could debate all day about Trump's mannerisms but I would like to keep this as concrete as possible given the subject matter. 

[edit:  So, let's put this in two broad categories:  one, the audio cues; and two, what Trump actually said that is under discussion.  If you really want to get into Trump's teleprompter habits and the rest of what you mentioned similar to that, let me know and we can make that three. 

[1.  I listened very carefully and I don't think the coughs that are audible like 30 seconds prior have anything to do with anything.  They are isolated noises and did not continue.  I do hear a pickup of noise at about the time he is saying "in the history of our country".  I am extremely skeptical that this is a total coincidence when he just happens to be saying "In less than two years, my administration has accomplished more than ... almost any administration ... in the history of our country.  America's ... so true."  In my opinion you can distinctly hear it in the pause between "country" and "America" and NOT in the two preceding pauses.  If you disagree, let me know, with any specifics you can—and if you agree, please also let me know.  If the noise precedes "America's ... so true", do you think it's a total coincidence and it's not the beginning of the laughter you hear later?  If so, please elaborate.  If they are laughing, then clearly they are laughing at something other than (in addition to) "America's ... so true". 

[2.]  Do you think "America's so true" was intended as a distinct statement, or do you think he said "America's", then broke off from what he was about to say and instead said "So true" as a different statement?  If you think it was a single statement, do you have an idea in your head as to what it actually means?  In other words, what's the joke?  Secondly, when he said "Didn't expect that reaction", do you think he was being facetious as part of the joke (i.e. he was expecting it, but was pretending he didn't as part of the joke)?  If so, what part did that play in the joke?  If not, why did he later say he was aiming to get laughter with what he said? 

See, part of the reason I don't see it as a joke as you do is that I don't know what the joke would even be.  There are people all too eager to say, "Trump is the joke", but that's missing the point. 

It's either one of two things the way I see it. Could be either, maybe both, who knows, but I figured the second option.

Either some of the UN members think Trump is a dummy and laughed at his boasting and statement of "America's so true" because they think Trump is full of it. Not only would this be quite rude at a big event like that, but to see Trump brush it off and go on with his speech no problem, says to me it didn't seem like an attack on him anyway.

or

Trump said it just because it was in the speech and he likes to poke here and there and didn't expect anyone to catch on, or he figured people would catch on that he's basically saying American news is fake news, which would make his statement of "America's so true" so funny, since it's him always pushing the fake news narrative. Trump is constantly put down by the media about how the economy isn't great, or it is but it's all because of Obama. I don't see it being coincidence Trump boasting about exactly that immediately after his "so true" statement.

You very nearly didn't answer a single question I asked you.  But you did answer the question "what's the joke?" for which I thank you.  If I understood you correctly, the joke is that saying "America's so true" is supposed to tell people "American media is so false" which is an absolutely mind-boggling leap for me.  Putting aside that I disagree with his fake news narrative, and even taking into account how often he goes after so-called mainstream media for being fake news, I STILL can't see a good enough connection between America being true and American news being fake for a joke to be likely.  I haven't watched as much of Donald Trump as you have but what I have seen of his comedy is much, much less oblique.  (And if you had to look up that word in the dictionary, that's basically what I'm saying people would have to do with his joke unless they were on the exact same mental wavelength already.)  So basically I have to disagree with your conclusion about what the joke is. 

So right now I have two things I still want to ask you. 

1.  Everything I asked you in #1 in the previous post, which you didn't address at all.  You said you thought the background noise was unrelated, and I think I have a pretty strong case that it's related.  The questions basically present to you my train of thought and ask you to tell me where we part ways. 

2.  If the joke is what you described, why did he say "Didn't expect that reaction", and then later say "that was meant to get some laughter"? 



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Final-Fan said:

You very nearly didn't answer a single question I asked you.  But you did answer the question "what's the joke?" for which I thank you.  If I understood you correctly, the joke is that saying "America's so true" is supposed to tell people "American media is so false" which is an absolutely mind-boggling leap for me.  Putting aside that I disagree with his fake news narrative, and even taking into account how often he goes after so-called mainstream media for being fake news, I STILL can't see a good enough connection between America being true and American news being fake for a joke to be likely.  I haven't watched as much of Donald Trump as you have but what I have seen of his comedy is much, much less oblique.  (And if you had to look up that word in the dictionary, that's basically what I'm saying people would have to do with his joke unless they were on the exact same mental wavelength already.)  So basically I have to disagree with your conclusion about what the joke is. 

So right now I have two things I still want to ask you. 

1.  Everything I asked you in #1 in the previous post, which you didn't address at all.  You said you thought the background noise was unrelated, and I think I have a pretty strong case that it's related.  The questions basically present to you my train of thought and ask you to tell me where we part ways. 

2.  If the joke is what you described, why did he say "Didn't expect that reaction", and then later say "that was meant to get some laughter"? 

The coughing is just a point. There is coughing going on before hand, which just points out that you can't really say it's all laughter. Some might be, but there are many other things it could also be, talking, etc, and could be all of them potentially. It doesn't make sense for people to immediately start laughing as far as I'm concerned. After he goes on for a while and makes it clear he's going to boast for a bit, then laughing could make sense, so the earlier background noise you mention is unlikely to fall into this. Since you say that background noise continues, it makes me believe it's not laughter, unless it's some laughter added to whatever it was beforehand, which could be possible, as many things are at this point. This also puts into question, are they laughing at Trump himself, or what he's saying and how he's saying it, or do they think America isn't doing as well as he says it is and he's lying, or maybe it's just the typical American's boasting about themselves in general that they find funny. There's a bunch of potential reasons.

Trump likes to push buttons, just like how the left likes to do so. Trump laughing it up big time and making it clear everyone is in on the joke, would make it way to obvious to the media and everyone else, that it was about the media, which will cause the media to go into full offensive mode against Trump, since they would be under immediate 'attack'. Trump doesn't mind a fight, but he's tired of swatting the media bees nest with a bat, and just likes to throw stones from a distance now and get those bees a little wound up. By pretending enough that he wasn't expecting that response, the media would at least know it wasn't clear to the world it was about them, if they caught on at all, and would leave Trump alone for the most part. By leave Trump alone, I mean they were going to use anything they could against him during that UN visit regardless, which is to be expected, but Trump didn't want to escalate that.

Trump later saying I meant it to get laughter, is letting the cat out of the bag. Letting the media, if they didn't know (for sure), and the world, that he was making fun of the media the whole time. By waiting some time to let this out, it let's the media calm down if necessary, and allows more news to come to light. Once the news moves on from a smaller story, they really don't like to go back unless they can hit it hard. It was best for them at that point to basically move on and pretend like it never happened, after of course using what Trump said about it being planned all along that it was meant to be a joke, as one last quick shot because 'obviously' that couldn't be true since he's such a 'screw up'.

The media coverage and it's details in the U.S. is quite one sided depending on what station your watching. Many important details that would ruin their point of view on the story are almost always left out, and they never bring them up after the fact. They just move on and leave the audience with the initial story they told. This is part of the reason the U.S is so divided. The lefty stations make it look like the right are horrible people, and the righty stations make it look like the left are crazy. The truth is that if everyone knew all the details, or watched a variety of news, they would be able to get the full complete story each time, and realize sometimes the left is wrong and sometimes the right is wrong, and that's just normal life. Trump wants the news overall to be more fair about how they tell their stories, and most news doesn't want to because of their own business and political reasons.



EricHiggin said:
SpokenTruth said:

They were laughing at him because he claimed his administration, “has accomplished more than almost any administration in the history of our country.”

I can't believe you are trying to spin this.  I take that back.  I can believe it.  Because his supporters, whom you clearly are, cannot accept any notion of negativity, humility, weakness, or wrong-doing regarding Trump.

Machiavellian said:

I see you found something you can latch on to as if that was what they laughed at.  The fact that there are a bunch of interviews with people that were there and their response is clear it wasn't what you are pushing.  I guess when you want to deny something you actually just grab anything and use it.  Keep the spin going as it does keep a smile on my face as I read your replies.

Watch the speech. He pulls a normal Trump and boasts about himself and his admin, and yet silence. He then pauses, changes tone, and makes his sarcastic point about how 'true' America is, and the place starts howling.

If you were telling a joke, and you finished the joke, yet nobody laughed, and then moved on, and people started laughing after you said something else, you wouldn't assume they were laughing at the initial joke because that wouldn't make any sense. Unless the audience is super slow, which I guess is possible?

I'm glad your so very happy because I am so very very sad, with all the crying, and puking, from all the spinning...   No wonder nobody wants to be on the right...

Yeah, I watched the speech a few times.  The thing about a joke is that its not a joke to everyone.  What I read from the people who were actually there is nothing along the account you present.  While you are trying to build a case that this is some joke from Trump the key is that people who where there and responded on it did not see it as a joke.  The response they game was the boast he made at an international gathering not your "So True" statement.  You can continue to run with that line which I am sure was something you received from another Trump whisperer as they look in the tea leaves to understand the mystical teachings of Trump.

I will continue to be happy as you jump through hoops again trying to lay blame somewhere else besides Trump.  You will blame the left, the Dems, the media which are all the same talking points as Trump.  You will wrap yourself in those very same topics and spill the exactly same crap as you attempt to become Trump whisperer.  Nothing is more funny when people continue to try to deflect what is right in front of them.

What interest me more is why do you believe Trump is on the right.  If anything he is nothing of the sort.  



EricHiggin said:
Final-Fan said:

You very nearly didn't answer a single question I asked you.  But you did answer the question "what's the joke?" for which I thank you.  If I understood you correctly, the joke is that saying "America's so true" is supposed to tell people "American media is so false" which is an absolutely mind-boggling leap for me.  Putting aside that I disagree with his fake news narrative, and even taking into account how often he goes after so-called mainstream media for being fake news, I STILL can't see a good enough connection between America being true and American news being fake for a joke to be likely.  I haven't watched as much of Donald Trump as you have but what I have seen of his comedy is much, much less oblique.  (And if you had to look up that word in the dictionary, that's basically what I'm saying people would have to do with his joke unless they were on the exact same mental wavelength already.)  So basically I have to disagree with your conclusion about what the joke is. 

So right now I have two things I still want to ask you. 

1.  Everything I asked you in #1 in the previous post, which you didn't address at all.  You said you thought the background noise was unrelated, and I think I have a pretty strong case that it's related.  The questions basically present to you my train of thought and ask you to tell me where we part ways. 

2.  If the joke is what you described, why did he say "Didn't expect that reaction", and then later say "that was meant to get some laughter"? 

The coughing is just a point. There is coughing going on before hand, which just points out that you can't really say it's all laughter. Some might be, but there are many other things it could also be, talking, etc, and could be all of them potentially. It doesn't make sense for people to immediately start laughing as far as I'm concerned. After he goes on for a while and makes it clear he's going to boast for a bit, then laughing could make sense, so the earlier background noise you mention is unlikely to fall into this. Since you say that background noise continues, it makes me believe it's not laughter, unless it's some laughter added to whatever it was beforehand, which could be possible, as many things are at this point. This also puts into question, are they laughing at Trump himself, or what he's saying and how he's saying it, or do they think America isn't doing as well as he says it is and he's lying, or maybe it's just the typical American's boasting about themselves in general that they find funny. There's a bunch of potential reasons.

Trump likes to push buttons, just like how the left likes to do so. Trump laughing it up big time and making it clear everyone is in on the joke, would make it way to obvious to the media and everyone else, that it was about the media, which will cause the media to go into full offensive mode against Trump, since they would be under immediate 'attack'. Trump doesn't mind a fight, but he's tired of swatting the media bees nest with a bat, and just likes to throw stones from a distance now and get those bees a little wound up. By pretending enough that he wasn't expecting that response, the media would at least know it wasn't clear to the world it was about them, if they caught on at all, and would leave Trump alone for the most part. By leave Trump alone, I mean they were going to use anything they could against him during that UN visit regardless, which is to be expected, but Trump didn't want to escalate that.

Trump later saying I meant it to get laughter, is letting the cat out of the bag. Letting the media, if they didn't know (for sure), and the world, that he was making fun of the media the whole time. By waiting some time to let this out, it let's the media calm down if necessary, and allows more news to come to light. Once the news moves on from a smaller story, they really don't like to go back unless they can hit it hard. It was best for them at that point to basically move on and pretend like it never happened, after of course using what Trump said about it being planned all along that it was meant to be a joke, as one last quick shot because 'obviously' that couldn't be true since he's such a 'screw up'.

The media coverage and it's details in the U.S. is quite one sided depending on what station your watching. Many important details that would ruin their point of view on the story are almost always left out, and they never bring them up after the fact. They just move on and leave the audience with the initial story they told. This is part of the reason the U.S is so divided. The lefty stations make it look like the right are horrible people, and the righty stations make it look like the left are crazy. The truth is that if everyone knew all the details, or watched a variety of news, they would be able to get the full complete story each time, and realize sometimes the left is wrong and sometimes the right is wrong, and that's just normal life. Trump wants the news overall to be more fair about how they tell their stories, and most news doesn't want to because of their own business and political reasons.

1.  You shouldn't bring up coughing to make a point if the coughing IN NO WAY supports the point you are trying to make.  "Someone made noise at some point, therefore there's tons of background chatter unrelated to the laughter" is total nonsense when in conjunction with the UNDISPUTED fact* that it comes immediately before and builds into the noise that comes later that we both agree is laughter. 

*I asserted it as fact, explicitly asking you to agree or disagree in both of my last two posts and you declined twice; I can only presume you at least don't disagree. 

2.  It makes no sense to me to simultaneously say Trump likes to push buttons, and was trying to push the media's buttons, and yet was also trying to sneak the joke past the media.  If it "wasn't clear to the world", how does it make sense that the line got a big laugh at all?  Are you suggesting that everyone was laughing at a DIFFERENT joke that they perceived Trump as telling?  I mean, I don't intend to hold you accountable for proving 100% what was in Trump's head or the other U.N. delegates' heads, but you're all over the map here with ideas that seem mutually exclusive to me. 

On a different note, I also would like to know what you think about my own theory about what Trump meant by "so true".  Do you think it's actually implausible, or do you think it's plausible but your own idea is even more likely? 



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
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