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Forums - Politics Discussion - Trump's Personal Lawyer And Campaign Manager Both Going To Prison

EricHiggin said:

You only know what Trump may know, based on what your told by media sources, and you don't know what they themselves know and understand either. Trump stated while he thought the Russia prob was bogus, he was fine with it happening, he was just pissed off that the entire media was telling America that Trump was at the heart of it which had to no truth to it. When he asked Comey to officially let it be known Trump wasn't part of it, he refused, even though he was clearly fine with covering and clearing things up for others in the past. This and the fact he leaked so much 'info' after the fact to that same media, just proves Trump was right about Comey clearly being against Trump, and how can Trump trust the FBI if he knows the man in charge is against him? Trump is the President remember. Comey's excuse that he couldn't say it because if it was ever found that Trump was part of it, he would have to backtrack, is ridiculous, because that means he can't ever announce anything since the FBI doesn't know every single little detail about everything, so what if?

Here is you giving another excuse for Trump ignorance.  Comey in his position does not have to tell the president who is also under the same investigation if he is cleared.  No law enforcement person tells a person under investigation if they are in the clear or not until after the investigation.  It doesn't matter what Comey opinion of Trump is or was.  People who investigate other people do not have to like you to do their job and you do not have to like your boss to do your job.  What you are stating here which is obstruction is that because Comey would not tell the president he was not under investigation, Trump fired him.  Then your ignorance and Trump ignorance would land you both in the same place we are here today.

Your saying because someone in Trumps circle had a meeting with a Russian, that means Trump had contact with them? How indirect do things have to be before they no longer count as contact? Trumps people quickly come clean and explain the Russian lied about Hillary evidence and offer up the emails immediately, and you see that as hiding and lying? Well since he's married with children, I'd assume he doesn't want his wife and family to find out, especially if he's paid her off already, who knows. Since the media would turn this into the biggest sex scandal the universe has ever seen, even if it was the most boring meaningless one ever, I can see why he would lie.

So you believe all top officials in Trump administration, his Son and Son in Law, attorney and campaign manager attends a meeting in itself is a violations and Trump did not know about it.  Next in the same sentence, you say they came clean after they lied about ever having the meeting.  Then you forget that they stated that the meeting was about abortions which was another lie when it was about dirt on Hillary.  How many lies before we get to the truth.  Now you expect everyone to just believe nothing came from the meeting since we have to take their word for it after lying 4 times.  Give me a break, who would believe them now after lying so many times and only coming to another excuse after they were exposed as lying.

Same reason the left were totally against Obama having to show his birth certificate. It was such an easy thing to crush and make go away, yet dragged on forever. Assuming anybody is legit because someone else checked them out and vetted them is naive. Who checks the fact checkers? Was Obama innocent of this 'crime'? Sure looked like it. Is Trump innocent of the Russia 'crime'? Sure looks like it.

What makes you believe Trump is innocent of working with Russia.  If anything, everyone of the people who were asked if they had any previous contact with Russia during his campaign have been found lying.  Flynn, Session, Trump JR and Krusher, Manford hell you name it.  Just maybe if their reflex was not to lie first and be proven guilty first they maybe you would have a point.

I asked for the negatives, not the positives. Only bringing up the positives makes it seem as if the likelihood that the negatives outweighing the positives is the case, and so Trump failing at those new ventures would be the norm. Who's to say it was Trumps fault directly? Maybe some of the people in those organizations screwed up big time and cost Trump. You can't expect him or anyone else to always pick all the right people. Which also brings up the fact there are clearly some people in the administration that are doing a great job of making him think they are there for the people, when really they are there to get 'dirt' on Trump and leak it to the media to bring him down.

I never said these people can do absolutely everything and never ever fail. If your point is Trump always fails at business, then why does that mean he automatically fails at politics? Like I said before, maybe his strong suit isn't actually business. That's a little bit hard to believe considering how well America's economy is doing right now, but maybe that's what a crappy businessman get's you. Imagine if he was actually 'good' at business. Who's to say Trump wanted to turn things around? Maybe he was just trying something new for the hell of it since he's uber rich, and decided to cut his losses and move onto something else. That's a smart brand move. A little negativity and you drop it. Just look at the people getting fired lately. They cause a potential problem for the brand, doesn't matter how, what, or when, and they are dropped immediately. Anything to keep the main brand strong.

American economy was doing well before he got into office.  Something you have to understand about macroeconomics is that things do not fall apart right away.  Instead it usually take years for the fallout of someone policies to have effects that leads to economic crisis.  So if Trump did nothing, the economy would still be going strong since all the numbers were a steady slide going down.  If Trump gets another 4 years, lets see how well things go from there.  As for Trump trying something new, given more to the rich well, I believe history will show its not only nothing new but has been done multiple times and each time we were further into debt.  Since the Trend seems to be continuing, I guess you have not paid attention to the how the Deficit is above a Trillion now and steadily climbing.  I guess something like that means nothing when Trump is in office since he was the one who stated he would bring it in check.  The people getting fired are the people who got caught.  Interesting how that works.  You say you hire all the best people but you hire a bunch of crooks.  They are all good until they get caught then you can say you are draining the swamp.  Lol, you really do eat that up don't you.

Steve Jobs was completely booted out of Apple early on, his own company, yet came back and made cell phones instead and now their practically untouchable. I wouldn't exactly say Elon Musk is on top, but he's a fighter and on his way. Trump failed multiple times yet sprung right back, and didn't bail on them all because clearly he still has his main business and is still a billionaire. Trump was also told by the worldwide masses he had zero chance of becoming the President, and was (and still is) constantly dodging political wrecking balls like the world has never seen, and sure enough, he's the President. 

Exactly, Steve was booted from Apple came back and made the company the most successful in the world.  Talk about taking a company who needed MS to bail them out a few times to being above that same company in market cap.  That is what success looks like.  Steve Jobs took Apple from the brink of ruin to the biggest company in the world.  Now, you tell me, what company did Trump run that was on the brink, in bad shape or going south that he took and brought it to success.  This is the difference when you put Trump in the same mix as someone like Jobs. Unlike Jobs, every company that was in any kind of financial crisis under Trump they failed.  If they did not fail he bailed on them took as much money as he could and left them in rubles.  For some reason you want people to give Trump the benefit of the doubt but if you were a hiring boss and looked at his previous record, you would not even think twice about giving him the job.

Trade and taxes for one. Heavily taxing American companies and allowing goods to come in cheap, while those highly taxed American products, are hit again when entering other countries makes no sense. Trump fixed that, but maybe went a little too far with corporate tax breaks, but it's much better than it was, and new businesses and jobs in America are quickly growing. How about Kavanaugh and the Supreme Court position? Nobody saw that coming because everyone thought Trump would go with a righty and why not? The left couldn't ask for a better scenario at this point in time, and yet as per usual, they are bashing both Trump and Kavanaugh. The recent hearings were brutal to watch, what a joke.

Here is a perfect example when ignorance rules decisions.  Just this Sunday Trump patted himself on a decision concerning Ford and their Ford Focus.  This is another example of a host of examples of ignorance that he displays and when maybe keeping quiet would be better than opening his mouth for everyone to see.

https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/ford/2018/09/09/ford-analysts-trump-tweet-focus/1250457002/

When you do not understand about how global trade and supply train works, you make ignorant comments like Trump does making everyone even more afraid he doesn't know what the heck he is doing.  I will give you one thing, giving.  I also love how he constant make statements in his ignorance forcing even Fox to correct him like his statement about GDP being above unemployment for the first time in 100 years.  



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Final-Fan said:
EricHiggin said:

Based on my point that he should have done something about it immediately instead of dragging it out like he aloud to happen. Similar reason like how Trumps apparently in deep trouble with Stormy because he should have taken care of things immediately, instead of dragging them out and having to deal with them during the election. Misinformation can be like a wildfire. It starts from one small camp fire allowed to get ever so slightly out of control, and next thing you know the forest is gone before it's put out.

I disagree with your assumptions. 

Ok.

Machiavellian said:
EricHiggin said:

Based on my point that he should have done something about it immediately instead of dragging it out like he aloud to happen. Similar reason like how Trumps apparently in deep trouble with Stormy because he should have taken care of things immediately, instead of dragging them out and having to deal with them during the election. Misinformation can be like a wildfire. It starts from one small camp fire allowed to get ever so slightly out of control, and next thing you know the forest is gone before it's put out.

But you are wrong.  Your point has been proven to be wrong because after showing the short form before election, the long form after election, the people who wanted to use the issue as some political smear campaign still looked for ways to dismissed it.  In other words nothing that Obama did was going to change the minds of people who do not care about proof but instead what they feel or believe is true.  

The difference again with Trump is the lying.  He doesn't know when to stop and he will continue to lie even when proven he is lying.  You know its really getting bad when People on Fox news start to call him a liar because he continues to do it so much even they cannot ignore it.

Proven to be wrong? Did you go back in time and play out the scenario I purposed to find it didn't turn out like I thought it would, or are you guessing and assuming? Is guessing and assuming the same as factual truth now? Do different decisions not lead to different outcomes?

Machiavellian said: 

Here is you giving another excuse for Trump ignorance.  Comey in his position does not have to tell the president who is also under the same investigation if he is cleared.  No law enforcement person tells a person under investigation if they are in the clear or not until after the investigation.  It doesn't matter what Comey opinion of Trump is or was.  People who investigate other people do not have to like you to do their job and you do not have to like your boss to do your job.  What you are stating here which is obstruction is that because Comey would not tell the president he was not under investigation, Trump fired him.  Then your ignorance and Trump ignorance would land you both in the same place we are here today.

Comey did admit he told the President, but gave the reasoning I provided as to why he didn't want to tell the public. If Comey's opinion of Trump doesn't matter, why put him on TV, the former head of the FBI, an evidence based individual, and have him constantly talk about how he felt about Trump? This wasn't some new TV show, it's accusing the President of firing the head of the FBI, supposedly because he's a Russian spy/puppet with no worthy direct evidence.

Machiavellian said:

So you believe all top officials in Trump administration, his Son and Son in Law, attorney and campaign manager attends a meeting in itself is a violations and Trump did not know about it.  Next in the same sentence, you say they came clean after they lied about ever having the meeting.  Then you forget that they stated that the meeting was about abortions which was another lie when it was about dirt on Hillary.  How many lies before we get to the truth.  Now you expect everyone to just believe nothing came from the meeting since we have to take their word for it after lying 4 times.  Give me a break, who would believe them now after lying so many times and only coming to another excuse after they were exposed as lying.

You said Trump had contact with them, not that he may or may not have known about the meeting. So Trumps people were lied to, they lied initially to the media, and the media constantly lies about them. Everyone is a liar. Can we hate them all, call it pretty even, or can we only pick one to hate?

Machiavellian said:

What makes you believe Trump is innocent of working with Russia.  If anything, everyone of the people who were asked if they had any previous contact with Russia during his campaign have been found lying.  Flynn, Session, Trump JR and Krusher, Manford hell you name it.  Just maybe if their reflex was not to lie first and be proven guilty first they maybe you would have a point.

You mean the people who were legally aloud to have contact with the Russians, but were being demonized for doing so because Hillary and the Dems said they are the epitome of evil, since they hacked her server and found a tonne of dirt? The same Hillary and Dems who helped the Russians to acquire a sizable amount of American uranium not all that long ago?

Machiavellian said:

American economy was doing well before he got into office.  Something you have to understand about macroeconomics is that things do not fall apart right away.  Instead it usually take years for the fallout of someone policies to have effects that leads to economic crisis.  So if Trump did nothing, the economy would still be going strong since all the numbers were a steady slide going down.  If Trump gets another 4 years, lets see how well things go from there.  As for Trump trying something new, given more to the rich well, I believe history will show its not only nothing new but has been done multiple times and each time we were further into debt.  Since the Trend seems to be continuing, I guess you have not paid attention to the how the Deficit is above a Trillion now and steadily climbing.  I guess something like that means nothing when Trump is in office since he was the one who stated he would bring it in check.  The people getting fired are the people who got caught.  Interesting how that works.  You say you hire all the best people but you hire a bunch of crooks.  They are all good until they get caught then you can say you are draining the swamp.  Lol, you really do eat that up don't you.

Now it's doing even better. What about 2008? Things fell apart quite rapidly. Where was the Gov on that one? I'm also going to assume, if after 8 years of Trump, and a couple years of a new Dem President, if the economy collapsed, it would no doubt be due to Trump, and if it continued to soar, it would be the new policies put in place, and not the outcome of the prior momentum. The Dems didn't fix the books, and neither are the Reps, so that makes the most recent Prez and his admin horrible, yet the previous one's were not? How do you know they are being fired for being 'caught' and not for PR reasons? Seems like PR is a much bigger problem today than actually doing something wrong, considering there's plenty of people backing what they did, as well as bashing them, regardless of the accusations. Almost seems like right and wrong isn't black and white for some strange reason.

Machiavellian said:

Exactly, Steve was booted from Apple came back and made the company the most successful in the world.  Talk about taking a company who needed MS to bail them out a few times to being above that same company in market cap.  That is what success looks like.  Steve Jobs took Apple from the brink of ruin to the biggest company in the world.  Now, you tell me, what company did Trump run that was on the brink, in bad shape or going south that he took and brought it to success.  This is the difference when you put Trump in the same mix as someone like Jobs. Unlike Jobs, every company that was in any kind of financial crisis under Trump they failed.  If they did not fail he bailed on them took as much money as he could and left them in rubles.  For some reason you want people to give Trump the benefit of the doubt but if you were a hiring boss and looked at his previous record, you would not even think twice about giving him the job.

So Steve did such a great job at Apple and didn't screw up at all, in anyway, that his own company decided to completely boot him out? Can't say the same for Trump. Apple, as well as Next, also crashed and burned on new ventures more than a few times as well, but we won't bring those up, because, well. The Rep voters would say the Country was on the brink and now it's on it's way back, but they don't count apparently.

Machiavellian said:

Here is a perfect example when ignorance rules decisions.  Just this Sunday Trump patted himself on a decision concerning Ford and their Ford Focus.  This is another example of a host of examples of ignorance that he displays and when maybe keeping quiet would be better than opening his mouth for everyone to see.

https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/ford/2018/09/09/ford-analysts-trump-tweet-focus/1250457002/

When you do not understand about how global trade and supply train works, you make ignorant comments like Trump does making everyone even more afraid he doesn't know what the heck he is doing.  I will give you one thing, giving.  I also love how he constant make statements in his ignorance forcing even Fox to correct him like his statement about GDP being above unemployment for the first time in 100 years. 

It's not Trumps fault that Ford has decided due to the fact they aren't selling that many Actives, that it isn't worth it to move production to the States.

We already talked about how the Gov doesn't and shouldn't stay the same for too long, and now your saying trade can only be done a certain way and can't and shouldn't ever change? Isn't Ford another giant evil corporation who must be friends with Trump? Why is he screwing them then? Do these trade deals hurt everyone and everything, or only certain entities? If the economy is doing so great overall, and the 'greedy, slimy, good for nothing' mega corps are doing just ok, then I don't see the problem. 

Last edited by EricHiggin - on 10 September 2018

EricHiggin
Comey did admit he told the President, but gave the reasoning I provided as to why he didn't want to tell the public. If Comey's opinion of Trump doesn't matter, why put him on TV, the former head of the FBI, an evidence based individual, and have him constantly talk about how he felt about Trump? This wasn't some new TV show, it's accusing the President of firing the head of the FBI, supposedly because he's a Russian spy/puppet with no worthy direct evidence.


Ok, lets just back up here for a second. Since we are on Comey, you stated in your previous post that Comey was asked by Trump to say he was not personally part of the Russia investigation publically but Comey refused because he could be later. You state that Comey has done this before but I ask you when he did this for Clinton what happen. You remember when he said the investigation was done but then had to reopen it back up when they got that laptop full of emails. How did that go down. Why would he make the same mistake twice.

So it seems you are equating Comey decision on not publicly putting Trump in the clear in an ongoing investigation that is not done but involves already people personally under Trump to being part of Comey opinion on Trump. Am I correct with this assumption. I just want to make sure I understand where you are going with whatever personal opinion Comey has or had concerning Trump compared to how we got here today with Mueller investigation directly against Trump.

Also you nor I have absolutely no clue what information Mueller has on Trump personal involvement in the Russian meddling. I highly doubt you will see anything until he makes his report especially since his department seems to be air tight when it comes to leaks.




Machiavellian said:

What makes you believe Trump is innocent of working with Russia. If anything, everyone of the people who were asked if they had any previous contact with Russia during his campaign have been found lying. Flynn, Session, Trump JR and Krusher, Manford hell you name it. Just maybe if their reflex was not to lie first and be proven guilty first they maybe you would have a point.

EricHiggin
You mean the people who were legally aloud to have contact with the Russians, but were being demonized for doing so because Hillary and the Dems said they are the epitome of evil, since they hacked her server and found a tonne of dirt? The same Hillary and Dems who helped the Russians to acquire a sizable amount of American uranium not all that long ago?

Yes, I mean exactly those same people. You know the one who got fired because he lied about the meeting. The other guy who recused himself from the investigation because he lied about the meetings. I guess if they had legal rights to contact and have these meetings why did they have to lie about it. Maybe you should ask yourself why they lied in the first place if they were in their rights to have these meetings. So as always we end up exactly where we continue to go with this administrations. Everyone lies until caught then they have to pay the price, unless you are the president. Again I see you are throwing Hillary and the Dems as your scapegoat but not putting the blame directly on the decisions made by the people in question. Its everyone else fault besides them. You even threw in the nice uranium conspiracy theory in there as well, nice touch.

Manafort was found guilty of filing a false tax return in each of the years from 2010 through 2014, as well as not filing a form in 2012 to report a foreign bank account as required. He was also convicted of two instances of bank fraud, related to a $3.4 million loan from Citizens Bank and a $1 million loan from Bank of California. - If you think that's going to bring Trump down, I've got secret documents to sell ya.

Oh and if you think Cohen is going to do produce anything legitimate I have another cache of documents to sell you, all authentic I promise!

I also hate to tell you legal experts this, you're being told by people emotionally and intellectually suspect that certain activities are crimes. To justify their claims they have to stretch and modify the facts in order to cater to those of you who have an emotional scar from 2016 that will only heal is Trump is brought down. However, if you do ever realize how insane and clickbait-ish the endless parade of speculation is and how it's done nothing but constantly feed into your desire for revenge for 2016, you can join the rest of us in this unprecedented economic and optimism boom.

I wonder if even that reality angers people. The fact they hate him so much, they hate everything about him and that the country is doing so damn well and benefiting from his tenure.

Last edited by Cubedramirez - on 11 September 2018

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SpokenTruth said:
Cubedramirez said:
Manafort was found guilty of filing a false tax return in each of the years from 2010 through 2014, as well as not filing a form in 2012 to report a foreign bank account as required. He was also convicted of two instances of bank fraud, related to a $3.4 million loan from Citizens Bank and a $1 million loan from Banc of California. - If you think that's going to bring Trump down, I've got secret documents to sell ya.

Oh and if you think Cohen is going to do produce anything legitimate I have another cache of documents to sell you, all authentic I promise!

I also hate to tell you legal experts this, you're being told by people emotionally and intellectually suspect that certain activities are crimes. To justify their claims they have to stretch and modify the facts in order to cater to those of you who have an emotional scar from 2016 that will only heal is Trump is brought down. However, if you do ever realize how insane and clickbait-ish the endless parade of speculation is and how it's done nothing but constantly feed into your desire for revenge for 2016, you can join the rest of us in this unprecedented economic and optimism boom.

I wonder if even that reality angers people. The fact they hate him so much, they hate everything about him and that the country is doing so damn well and benefiting from his tenure.

1. These charges are secondary.  They came out as part of the investigation.  They weren't manufactured for the investigation. 

2. Manafort has another trial soon that is more directly related to the campaign. 

3. The investigation is being led by Republicans and their appointees, not the DNC and the Democrats.

4. The economy has been doing damn well for years.  This is not new. Don't go claiming others are being blinded and then make a blind statement.

Well, if that's not the most ignorant statement I've read in a while.. The Economy doing damn well... Don't get me wrong, your avoidance of the fact the charges against Manafort for both trails have nothing to do with Trump or Russia, your belief that the investigation under Trump by Republican careerist somehow makes spying on a opposition candidate from the previous administration justifiable (source: James Clapper testimony), but your economy statement... Jesus, that's some biblical level of ignorance if I've ever read one.

Can't expect anything less from here on out I guess. 

I won't go into detail because honestly I don't think discussing durable goods and hard goods orders, or business investment, capital repatriation, confidence and optimism indexes would have any impact on your convincing argument that the economy was doing "damn well".

If you're anything close to intellectually honest then you can take your grossly ignorant self over to the Bureau of Economic Analysis to educate yourself on whether or not the economy was doing "damn well" for years.  

I guess when you're a leftist avg 2.2% yearly GDP growth is doing damn well... 

Simply wow...

P.S. The previous admin stated repeatedly that there was NO WAY Trump could ever create an environment where 10 million jobs would be created.  He's not even two years into it and 4 million plus have been created.... 





Machiavellian said:

EricHiggin
Comey did admit he told the President, but gave the reasoning I provided as to why he didn't want to tell the public. If Comey's opinion of Trump doesn't matter, why put him on TV, the former head of the FBI, an evidence based individual, and have him constantly talk about how he felt about Trump? This wasn't some new TV show, it's accusing the President of firing the head of the FBI, supposedly because he's a Russian spy/puppet with no worthy direct evidence.


Ok, lets just back up here for a second. Since we are on Comey, you stated in your previous post that Comey was asked by Trump to say he was not personally part of the Russia investigation publically but Comey refused because he could be later. You state that Comey has done this before but I ask you when he did this for Clinton what happen. You remember when he said the investigation was done but then had to reopen it back up when they got that laptop full of emails. How did that go down. Why would he make the same mistake twice.

So it seems you are equating Comey decision on not publicly putting Trump in the clear in an ongoing investigation that is not done but involves already people personally under Trump to being part of Comey opinion on Trump. Am I correct with this assumption. I just want to make sure I understand where you are going with whatever personal opinion Comey has or had concerning Trump compared to how we got here today with Mueller investigation directly against Trump.

Also you nor I have absolutely no clue what information Mueller has on Trump personal involvement in the Russian meddling. I highly doubt you will see anything until he makes his report especially since his department seems to be air tight when it comes to leaks.

Well he said she was off the hook, and then on the hook again, and then off the hook, even though it seemed clear she should have been on the hook. What's the problem with this? If he realized he made a mistake and knew how to fix it going forward, then why didn't he make it clear to Trump that at the immediate present, he wasn't under investigation, but since the investigation was ongoing, he obviously couldn't know if Trump would end up involved. Odds are he knew this might anger Trump and get him fired, I'd assume, so he just told Trump he wasn't being investigated. Which is why Trump wouldn't be able to understand why Comey wouldn't let the public know. Comey made it clear this is how it went down, and had no problem telling the public through the media that Trump could become a suspect, but didn't tell Trump. He's the President. Comey's job is to inform the President as clearly as humanly possible, and at the highest level, since he was the head of the FBI. 

No leaks? What about recently with Manafort and Cohen?

Machiavellian said:

Machiavellian said:

What makes you believe Trump is innocent of working with Russia. If anything, everyone of the people who were asked if they had any previous contact with Russia during his campaign have been found lying. Flynn, Session, Trump JR and Krusher, Manford hell you name it. Just maybe if their reflex was not to lie first and be proven guilty first they maybe you would have a point.

EricHiggin
You mean the people who were legally aloud to have contact with the Russians, but were being demonized for doing so because Hillary and the Dems said they are the epitome of evil, since they hacked her server and found a tonne of dirt? The same Hillary and Dems who helped the Russians to acquire a sizable amount of American uranium not all that long ago?

Yes, I mean exactly those same people. You know the one who got fired because he lied about the meeting. The other guy who recused himself from the investigation because he lied about the meetings. I guess if they had legal rights to contact and have these meetings why did they have to lie about it. Maybe you should ask yourself why they lied in the first place if they were in their rights to have these meetings. So as always we end up exactly where we continue to go with this administrations. Everyone lies until caught then they have to pay the price, unless you are the president. Again I see you are throwing Hillary and the Dems as your scapegoat but not putting the blame directly on the decisions made by the people in question. Its everyone else fault besides them. You even threw in the nice uranium conspiracy theory in there as well, nice touch.

As I explained earlier, when every Dem and lefty and the majority of the media are after you and are willing to spin everything you do or say to try and make a fool of you, what tends to happen is those 'victims' tend to lie, since they are, or would be, lied about anyway. Maybe the left and the media should try to be honest for a while, and see if anything changes, because it just might. You don't know if you don't try. Why bother though right? Trump and his people are liars, because they just are. Everyone knows it just because. Trump = Hitler. It's basic math...



EricHiggin said:
Machiavellian said:

EricHiggin
Comey did admit he told the President, but gave the reasoning I provided as to why he didn't want to tell the public. If Comey's opinion of Trump doesn't matter, why put him on TV, the former head of the FBI, an evidence based individual, and have him constantly talk about how he felt about Trump? This wasn't some new TV show, it's accusing the President of firing the head of the FBI, supposedly because he's a Russian spy/puppet with no worthy direct evidence.


Ok, lets just back up here for a second. Since we are on Comey, you stated in your previous post that Comey was asked by Trump to say he was not personally part of the Russia investigation publically but Comey refused because he could be later. You state that Comey has done this before but I ask you when he did this for Clinton what happen. You remember when he said the investigation was done but then had to reopen it back up when they got that laptop full of emails. How did that go down. Why would he make the same mistake twice.

So it seems you are equating Comey decision on not publicly putting Trump in the clear in an ongoing investigation that is not done but involves already people personally under Trump to being part of Comey opinion on Trump. Am I correct with this assumption. I just want to make sure I understand where you are going with whatever personal opinion Comey has or had concerning Trump compared to how we got here today with Mueller investigation directly against Trump.

Also you nor I have absolutely no clue what information Mueller has on Trump personal involvement in the Russian meddling. I highly doubt you will see anything until he makes his report especially since his department seems to be air tight when it comes to leaks.

Well he said she was off the hook, and then on the hook again, and then off the hook, even though it seemed clear she should have been on the hook. What's the problem with this? If he realized he made a mistake and knew how to fix it going forward, then why didn't he make it clear to Trump that at the immediate present, he wasn't under investigation, but since the investigation was ongoing, he obviously couldn't know if Trump would end up involved. Odds are he knew this might anger Trump and get him fired, I'd assume, so he just told Trump he wasn't being investigated. Which is why Trump wouldn't be able to understand why Comey wouldn't let the public know. Comey made it clear this is how it went down, and had no problem telling the public through the media that Trump could become a suspect, but didn't tell Trump. He's the President. Comey's job is to inform the President as clearly as humanly possible, and at the highest level, since he was the head of the FBI. 

No leaks? What about recently with Manafort and Cohen?

 

Machiavellian said:

Machiavellian said:

What makes you believe Trump is innocent of working with Russia. If anything, everyone of the people who were asked if they had any previous contact with Russia during his campaign have been found lying. Flynn, Session, Trump JR and Krusher, Manford hell you name it. Just maybe if their reflex was not to lie first and be proven guilty first they maybe you would have a point.

EricHiggin
You mean the people who were legally aloud to have contact with the Russians, but were being demonized for doing so because Hillary and the Dems said they are the epitome of evil, since they hacked her server and found a tonne of dirt? The same Hillary and Dems who helped the Russians to acquire a sizable amount of American uranium not all that long ago?

Yes, I mean exactly those same people. You know the one who got fired because he lied about the meeting. The other guy who recused himself from the investigation because he lied about the meetings. I guess if they had legal rights to contact and have these meetings why did they have to lie about it. Maybe you should ask yourself why they lied in the first place if they were in their rights to have these meetings. So as always we end up exactly where we continue to go with this administrations. Everyone lies until caught then they have to pay the price, unless you are the president. Again I see you are throwing Hillary and the Dems as your scapegoat but not putting the blame directly on the decisions made by the people in question. Its everyone else fault besides them. You even threw in the nice uranium conspiracy theory in there as well, nice touch.

As I explained earlier, when every Dem and lefty and the majority of the media are after you and are willing to spin everything you do or say to try and make a fool of you, what tends to happen is those 'victims' tend to lie, since they are, or would be, lied about anyway. Maybe the left and the media should try to be honest for a while, and see if anything changes, because it just might. You don't know if you don't try. Why bother though right? Trump and his people are liars, because they just are. Everyone knows it just because. Trump = Hitler. It's basic math...

As for leaks from the Manafort or Cohen trials, you show me any evidence where anything came from Mueller team.No, I am sorry but that is just another excuse.  It would be different if Trump behaved differently before becoming president.  It would be different if he had a career of being honest but that is not the case even from his own mouth. Trump lying has been his MO for decades.  There are piles or cases where the man shows at every turn he cannot tell the truth no matter what the occasion is. You really should stop trying to find a defense for the man's constant lying it really do not help your case. 

You should really listen to yourself.  It's everyone else fault for Trump lying.  Everyone seems to be at fault when something goes wrong but Trump.  

No Trump is not a liar just because.  This is where I believe your problem comes from.  Trump is a liar because its been proven countless times that he lies.  I never compared Trump to Hitler, I compare him to your average con man.  He tells you want you want to hear.  He will make up whatever story that satisfy what you believe or think and he will take you to school when you blink.  Trump probably only wish he could be even close to Hitler.  The man is not anywhere close to being in that league of villains.

Still, if you are investigating or could investigate your boss, why would you need to make anything public until after the investigation.  Trump was already out of line for asking for this since he is suppose to separate himself from the investigation.  In other words he was trying to influence public opinion before any results were found.  The same way that he continue to do today.  Instead of letting things run their course he wants to continue to put himself within it.  Its his constant butting in that probably has fueled things to where they are today.  With the lies and butting in, he continue to throw more logs on the fire keeping things hot but knowing you, it's everyone else fault.

As for Manafort and Cohen trial, why don't you show me any leaks that came from Mueller team.



Machiavellian said:
EricHiggin said:

Well he said she was off the hook, and then on the hook again, and then off the hook, even though it seemed clear she should have been on the hook. What's the problem with this? If he realized he made a mistake and knew how to fix it going forward, then why didn't he make it clear to Trump that at the immediate present, he wasn't under investigation, but since the investigation was ongoing, he obviously couldn't know if Trump would end up involved. Odds are he knew this might anger Trump and get him fired, I'd assume, so he just told Trump he wasn't being investigated. Which is why Trump wouldn't be able to understand why Comey wouldn't let the public know. Comey made it clear this is how it went down, and had no problem telling the public through the media that Trump could become a suspect, but didn't tell Trump. He's the President. Comey's job is to inform the President as clearly as humanly possible, and at the highest level, since he was the head of the FBI. 

No leaks? What about recently with Manafort and Cohen?

As I explained earlier, when every Dem and lefty and the majority of the media are after you and are willing to spin everything you do or say to try and make a fool of you, what tends to happen is those 'victims' tend to lie, since they are, or would be, lied about anyway. Maybe the left and the media should try to be honest for a while, and see if anything changes, because it just might. You don't know if you don't try. Why bother though right? Trump and his people are liars, because they just are. Everyone knows it just because. Trump = Hitler. It's basic math...

As for leaks from the Manafort or Cohen trials, you show me any evidence where anything came from Mueller team.No, I am sorry but that is just another excuse.  It would be different if Trump behaved differently before becoming president.  It would be different if he had a career of being honest but that is not the case even from his own mouth. Trump lying has been his MO for decades.  There are piles or cases where the man shows at every turn he cannot tell the truth no matter what the occasion is. You really should stop trying to find a defense for the man's constant lying it really do not help your case. 

You should really listen to yourself.  It's everyone else fault for Trump lying.  Everyone seems to be at fault when something goes wrong but Trump.  

No Trump is not a liar just because.  This is where I believe your problem comes from.  Trump is a liar because its been proven countless times that he lies.  I never compared Trump to Hitler, I compare him to your average con man.  He tells you want you want to hear.  He will make up whatever story that satisfy what you believe or think and he will take you to school when you blink.  Trump probably only wish he could be even close to Hitler.  The man is not anywhere close to being in that league of villains.

Still, if you are investigating or could investigate your boss, why would you need to make anything public until after the investigation.  Trump was already out of line for asking for this since he is suppose to separate himself from the investigation.  In other words he was trying to influence public opinion before any results were found.  The same way that he continue to do today.  Instead of letting things run their course he wants to continue to put himself within it.  Its his constant butting in that probably has fueled things to where they are today.  With the lies and butting in, he continue to throw more logs on the fire keeping things hot but knowing you, it's everyone else fault.

As for Manafort and Cohen trial, why don't you show me any leaks that came from Mueller team.

https://wjla.com/news/nation-world/25-leaks-about-the-mueller-investigation-and-the-problems-they-may-cause

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/24/politics/special-counsel-leaks-klayman/index.html

http://www.latimes.com/la-ol-enter-the-fray-the-mueller-questions-leak-1525186933-htmlstory.html

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/05/14/mueller-leaks-hearing-trump-586555

Plenty of reasons that sure make it look like there have been plenty of leaks from Muellers team, whether the leaks went straight to the media or through another source. No hard evidence really at this point in time though, but you don't name your sources when those sources are helping your agenda behind the scenes. Considering his team has gone out of their way to push back court dates, and try to weasel their way out of hearings because they are so honest and can't be bothered by outside matters, since the investigation is so much more important. Sounds quite familiar, like Trump saying he's innocent and doesn't want to be bothered by outside matters like the media and left, constantly bashing him for something that has nothing to do with him specifically, and that it's also holding back his political agenda which is much more important.

The unbiased media however, goes out of their way to bash Trump because it's quite clear that he's guilty, yet makes it seem like Mueller and his people were appointed by the Lord our God to speak nothing but the truth, untouchable by evil. More than a few people have already been booted off Muellers team since it's inception for abusing their power. Talking about track records...

How about the media? How squeaky clean have their stories been over the decades? I'd bet they lie just as much if not more than Trump does. That doesn't matter though because the media said Trump was bad and a liar, and their the truth tellers, so no point in looking into their own character. They aren't the President either, so what power do they really have, and why care about them right? It's not like people go to them to find out who's ahead in the political polls, how much wine a day is the healthiest, and weather or not it's going to rain.

I also am having a hard time differentiating between what is fact and what is excuses. For some reason it seems like the only thing I can come up with are excuses, and the only thing you can come up with is fact. I would have thought by now at least one thing I've mentioned was more than just personal bias, and at least one thing you've mentioned wouldn't be solid fact...



EricHiggin said:
Machiavellian said:

As for leaks from the Manafort or Cohen trials, you show me any evidence where anything came from Mueller team.No, I am sorry but that is just another excuse.  It would be different if Trump behaved differently before becoming president.  It would be different if he had a career of being honest but that is not the case even from his own mouth. Trump lying has been his MO for decades.  There are piles or cases where the man shows at every turn he cannot tell the truth no matter what the occasion is. You really should stop trying to find a defense for the man's constant lying it really do not help your case. 

You should really listen to yourself.  It's everyone else fault for Trump lying.  Everyone seems to be at fault when something goes wrong but Trump.  

No Trump is not a liar just because.  This is where I believe your problem comes from.  Trump is a liar because its been proven countless times that he lies.  I never compared Trump to Hitler, I compare him to your average con man.  He tells you want you want to hear.  He will make up whatever story that satisfy what you believe or think and he will take you to school when you blink.  Trump probably only wish he could be even close to Hitler.  The man is not anywhere close to being in that league of villains.

Still, if you are investigating or could investigate your boss, why would you need to make anything public until after the investigation.  Trump was already out of line for asking for this since he is suppose to separate himself from the investigation.  In other words he was trying to influence public opinion before any results were found.  The same way that he continue to do today.  Instead of letting things run their course he wants to continue to put himself within it.  Its his constant butting in that probably has fueled things to where they are today.  With the lies and butting in, he continue to throw more logs on the fire keeping things hot but knowing you, it's everyone else fault.

As for Manafort and Cohen trial, why don't you show me any leaks that came from Mueller team.

https://wjla.com/news/nation-world/25-leaks-about-the-mueller-investigation-and-the-problems-they-may-cause

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/24/politics/special-counsel-leaks-klayman/index.html

http://www.latimes.com/la-ol-enter-the-fray-the-mueller-questions-leak-1525186933-htmlstory.html

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/05/14/mueller-leaks-hearing-trump-586555

 

Lets just address the first link.  Nowhere in that article did it provide not one veritable proof that any leak came from Mueller team.  If anything it shows that leaks come from everywhere including the white house.  

Your second link provided absolutely nothing.  It's about Freedom watch wanting records pertaining to the Flynn case.

The third link is about the 50 questions leaked to the press.  Anybody who was paying attention knows that the white house leaked those questions.

https://abovethelaw.com/2018/05/why-did-trumps-lawyers-leak-the-mueller-questions-a-few-theories/

The last link is about as supportive as the others.  In other words you did a google search and found these links but did not read any of them.  If anything, all the leaks within Trump administration seems a direct result of confidence in him.  There seems to be this image from people within Trump admin that he is an idiot.  This seems to be proven time and again when he opens his mouth or tweets.  Anyway, continue your google search, you might find something worth pinning on Mueller team instead of everyone else trying to make money off of this idiot in office.