By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Gaming Discussion - Battlefield V Pre Orders are 85% less than Call of Duty Black Ops 4.

WolfpackN64 said:
thismeintiel said:

1.  It hardly has all the downvotes and highly rated comments pertaining to the woman and EA's reaction to it, simply due to it being "confusing."

3.  Profit?  Yes.  The amount they were planning on? No.  Not even close.  And no, I didn't pull it out of nowhere.  The movie was supposed to pull in ~$1.8B WW, possibly more.  BOM said that $750M-$830M in the US/Canada was a safe bet.  And judging by the opening weekend, it was headed there.  But, then the 2nd weekend saw a massive 68% drop.  After the drop, analysts were saying it would still hit $1.6B WW.  It missed even the adjusted goal.  Of course, there's also the fact that Disney saw a massive drop in SW merchandise sales.  Then, many fans protested Solo, partly because of its own SJW messaging, but also because of how much TLJ turned them off from the series, which led to the first ever SW flop.  And not even a minor flop, either.  My pessimistic projection for that film was ~$800M WW.  It only did half of that.

Like they say.  Get woke, go broke.

By all metrics the movie performed stellar and Blu-Ray sales were massive. But when you get your projections from conspiracy theories, no wonder you pull $1.8B numbers out of nowhere.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/markhughes/2017/12/29/almost-everything-everybody-is-saying-about-star-wars-the-last-jedi-is-wrong/#a8f93fa39b55

And what SJW message in Solo? Solo flopped because of its poor launch window. That's the end of it.

By every metric, the film underperformed.  When the safe bet is, at the very minimum, $750M at the DBO, which would have meant $1.66B WW, but you can't even match that, it underperformed.  Of course, the max safe bet (which is what Disney really wants to hit) was $830M, meaning it would have done $1.83B WW.  Then, when analysts have to readjust their predictions, stating it will still hit ~$1.6B WW, but you still fall short of that, it's just pathetic. Then, Bluray sales were half that of Force Awakens.  And they obviously turned off a big portion of your fanbase, cause they aren't buying your merch anymore.  Next, your film is followed by a flop that wiped out much of the profit you made from TLJ.  Again, a big disappointment for Disney.

The fact that you saw no SJW messaging around Solo shows me all I need to know.  Fans made it clear they were unhappy about the SJW bot in the film, as well as the writer injecting identity politics into the film by suddenly making Lando pansexual.  They were belittled and bashed on social media by Lucasfilm. Lucasfilm didn't care about their fans but rather appeasing other SJWs, which, for some reason, they think are either in the majority or are supported by the majority. Surprise Surprise, SJWs a hit movie, do not make.  Now, you can continue to stick your head in the sand and pretend that SJW politics injected into every franchise won't hurt it's sales, but we will continue to see the results and know the truth.

 

⚠️ WARNED: Trolling ~ CGI

Last edited by CGI-Quality - on 23 August 2018

Around the Network
Hiku said:
bananaking21 said:
"women being Included" is not an issue. It's the history inaccuracy and political agendas being pushed that people had issues with. The gaming community and userbase clearly has no issue with women being in games, Horizon, Tomb Raider, TLou and many other games prove this. I can understand the point you were trying to make (or assume that you were trying to make), but your wording is just very wrong

Battlefield was never trying to be historically accurate. They are what-if scenario's based around actual events. It's what could have happened if things were different. "We are not history tellers" they said. "We leave that to other games."
There are not only several story scenarios in previous Battlefield games that never happened, but some of them are even intentionally unrealistic. Such as the story scenario written for how they crash land a plane into a zeppelin, and then walk around on top of it.
The amount of people who gloss over these things is astonishing. And when this is brought to their attention, some move the goalpost to "Historical accuracy doesn't matter for the story. But it does for the overall premise/setting."
Okay, sure...

And I disagree. People commonly have issues with women in games, as long as they can find one single little reason to complain about it.
Lara Croft was always a woman, so they have to leave that one alone. Horizon though? There were plenty of complaints about it having a female lead being a political statement, even on our forums. Though since they didn't have the "historical accuracy" angle to use back then, it didn't blow up as much as Battlefield 5. I can specifically name someone (because I'll never forget this comment) who in the Horizon topic said "Women should only have a lead role in games if there's a specific story related reason for it. Like in Alien: Isolation, or TloU"

For Alien: Isolation, he was referring to how the main character gives birth to an alien. Because only a woman can do that...
And in The Last of Us, Ellie serves as a replacement for Joel's lost daughter.

In other words, women need to have very specific and well written reasons for being in lead roles. Men don't.
And this is not an uncommon idea. We see this a lot in all forms of media, not just in regards to women, but minorities, people of color, different sexuality, etc.

Some people in this very topic for example had a big problem with a character in the Han Solo movie having a different sexuality even briefly alluded to in an interview outside of the film. It didn't affect anything in the movie whatsoever. That was enough for them to want the movie to crash and burn.
They demand that anything that doesn't check every box on the white, straight, male checklist is more well written.
Otherwise it's 'pandering to *insert something*'. Never mind the thousands of movies and games that no doubt pander to the preference of white/straight/male, including myself.

Dice went out and stated that their reasoning for the inclusion of women on the front line and black dudes with katana (seriously, a fucking katana) is to support their political agenda. Which is inclusion and diversity. Now those two political agendas are good. But in this case they came in the way of artists integrity. You need to accept that a lot of people have an issue with that, and not with women in games. 

 

I for one find it rather insulting that Dice and EA couldn't include a rather realistic story about women on that era in Battlefield 5. Instead of trying to accurately portay the women of WW2 and their stories and actual struggles, they had to dismiss the women of that time because they don't fit the "PC" view of women today. and had to make a "badass" woman who can "do what ever a man can do" and have her for some reason have a prosthetic arm. 

 

Instead of portraying the real women of WW2 they gave us a joke of a character. If a WW2 setting isn't "PC" enough for them, then don't fucking make one, if they want a fictional WW2 setting, then go all out on it and make a decent fictional WW2 like Wolfenstien, nobody is complaining that there were female soldiers in that game. 



Both look like trash



PSN: Saugeen-Uwo     Feel free to add me (put Vg Chartz as MSG)!

Nintendo Network ID: Saugeen-Uwo

I think it's more than just political correctness that's impacting the sales of the game. Political correctness does not explain a lag of 85% and I doubt the casual audience of players that make up the majority of the player base really cares about stuff like that. This game has just done a really poor job at marketing itself and is coming out in a holiday season that has the following games:
-Red Dead Redemption 2
-Call of Duty BO4
-Smash Bros Ultimate
-Fallout 76
-Spider-Man
-Spyro
-FIFA 19
-Forza Horizon
-Assassins Creed
-Mario Party
-Soul Caliber
-Hitman 2
-Pokémon
-Just Cause 4
-Team Sonic Racing

This is one of the most crowded holiday seasons I've ever seen. EA needs to spend more money on advertising the game properly instead of plopping it into the middle of the Daily Show where most of the audience doesn't care.



 

 

Hiku said:
bananaking21 said:

Dice went out and stated that their reasoning for the inclusion of women on the front line and black dudes with katana (seriously, a fucking katana) is to support their political agenda. Which is inclusion and diversity. Now those two political agendas are good. But in this case they came in the way of artists integrity. You need to accept that a lot of people have an issue with that, and not with women in games. 

 

I for one find it rather insulting that Dice and EA couldn't include a rather realistic story about women on that era in Battlefield 5. Instead of trying to accurately portay the women of WW2 and their stories and actual struggles, they had to dismiss the women of that time because they don't fit the "PC" view of women today. and had to make a "badass" woman who can "do what ever a man can do" and have her for some reason have a prosthetic arm. 

 

Instead of portraying the real women of WW2 they gave us a joke of a character. If a WW2 setting isn't "PC" enough for them, then don't fucking make one, if they want a fictional WW2 setting, then go all out on it and make a decent fictional WW2 like Wolfenstien, nobody is complaining that there were female soldiers in that game. 

If you're referring to the tweet I'm thinking of, they said they do everything they can to be inclusive and diverse. But they're also no doubt aware of the fact that many players like myself like playing as female characters some times, even though I'm not female. It's just for aesthetic reasons.
I'd accept that some people have issues with these things if the other historically inaccurate scenarios of the Battlefield series garnered even a fraction of the same backlash.

I can ask the same question about the Zeppelin. They were actually used by Germany in World War 1. Couldn't Dice have written a realistic story about how they were handled in the war? Instead they wrote a story scenario about how the main character's plane gets shot down, crash lands on the zeppelin, then they walk around on top of it while its flying. And other planes come crashing down on it right in front of them, creating holes that let them jump down to the interior, and then take it over from the inside.
It's absolutely ridiculous. Not only did that obviously never really happen, but it's not even realistic. It's the kind of thing you'd expect from a Bond film.
And as if that wasn't bad enough, the main characters jump off the Zeppelin while it's up in the sky, without a parachute, and somehow survive without a scratch because they landed in water... (Water is almost like pavement if you jump from that height. They were above the clouds.)

And people were so outraged about this historically inaccurate (and unrealistic) scenario that they made a grand total of 0 topics to complain about it.
Meanwhile we've had several topics on the issue of a woman soldier fighting for England rather than Russia or whichever other nations had them on the front lines.
And people are livid about this. It's not the way people normally react when they don't like something about a game. Something about women and minorities get people really riled up to the point where they start boycotting campaigns and want it to fail.

Like Dice said, if you want a historical portrayal of things like that, don't count on it from their Battlefield games. They leave that to other developers.
You mentioned artists integrity, which reminds me, if they had stuck to trying to keep things historically accurate, then they would limit their creative freedom in what kind of story they could have written for this soldier. They've never worried about that in the previous Battlefield games.

The mechanical hand and katana are silly, out of place and over the top. Whether people like or dislike the arm and the katana is understandable. But it shouldn't come as a big surprise to anyone who has played through previous Battlefield games that they take liberties with the story and characters.
Metal Gear Solid is also based around real events from history, albeit much more loosely, since the focus of the story takes place entirely within fictive events. 
But whether you implement one scenario that never happened, or fifty, in both cases you end up with a game that isn't historically accurate. You can't just change some historical events, but not others. Either fully commit to portray an accurate retelling of events, or do whatever you want. Dice never intended to do the former with the Battlefield series.

Metal Gear Solid is a great example. It's very loose in its accuracy, and always added a lot of pseudo science and fantastic. So like Battlefield, they can do anything they want, right? 

 

You don't remember Metal Gear Survive? No women or PC involved anywhere in it, and yet a huge backlash and a flop because the fans judged that the zombies hunting game did not belong in the franchise, and took it as an insult and as Konami exploiting a popular franchise to try another genre. Exactly like BFV. Fans judge that bionic women with baseball bats don't belong in their franchise, and that it's EA trying to pander both to the SJW and the Fortnite crowd. Customers are always right. If your customers judge that the changes you made to your product are not what they want, then they're right. "Accept it or don't buy it" is a recipe for failure. 

 

You see? It's a lot more complex than "If you don't like it you're sexist". I don't care about BFV but I've been following this story since the beginning because it's very interesting and representative of a trend. And except for some trolls, no, the arguments coming from the anti are not sexists. The "pro" are actually  usually way more judgmental and insulting than the "anti". I'm pretty sure most people would be very happy to have a mod about a woman fighting in the resistance or intelligence. But not running around with a prosthetic arm and a katana on Omaha Beach. 



Around the Network
thismeintiel said:
WolfpackN64 said:

By all metrics the movie performed stellar and Blu-Ray sales were massive. But when you get your projections from conspiracy theories, no wonder you pull $1.8B numbers out of nowhere.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/markhughes/2017/12/29/almost-everything-everybody-is-saying-about-star-wars-the-last-jedi-is-wrong/#a8f93fa39b55

And what SJW message in Solo? Solo flopped because of its poor launch window. That's the end of it.

By every metric, the film underperformed.  When the safe bet is, at the very minimum, $750M at the DBO, which would have meant $1.66B WW, but you can't even match that, it underperformed.  Of course, the max safe bet (which is what Disney really wants to hit) was $830M, meaning it would have done $1.83B WW.  Then, when analysts have to readjust their predictions, stating it will still hit ~$1.6B WW, but you still fall short of that, it's just pathetic. Then, Bluray sales were half that of Force Awakens.  And they obviously turned off a big portion of your fanbase, cause they aren't buying your merch anymore.  Next, your film is followed by a flop that wiped out much of the profit you made from TLJ.  Again, a big disappointment for Disney.

The fact that you saw no SJW messaging around Solo shows me all I need to know.  Fans made it clear they were unhappy about the SJW bot in the film, as well as the writer injecting identity politics into the film by suddenly making Lando pansexual.  They were belittled and bashed on social media by Lucasfilm. Lucasfilm didn't care about their fans but rather appeasing other SJWs, which, for some reason, they think are either in the majority or are supported by the majority. Surprise Surprise, SJWs a hit movie, do not make.  Now, you can continue to stick your head in the sand and pretend that SJW politics injected into every franchise won't hurt it's sales, but we will continue to see the results and know the truth.

The robot is what offended people? HA! This is probably the most amusing thing I read all day.



Hiku said:

If you're referring to the tweet I'm thinking of, they said they do everything they can to be inclusive and diverse. But they're also no doubt aware of the fact that many players like myself like playing as female characters some times, even though I'm not female. It's just for aesthetic reasons.
I'd accept that some people have issues with these things if the other historically inaccurate scenarios of the Battlefield series garnered even a fraction of the same backlash.

I can ask the same question about the Zeppelin. They were actually used by Germany in World War 1. Couldn't Dice have written a realistic story about how they were handled in the war? Instead they wrote a story scenario about how the main character's plane gets shot down, crash lands on the zeppelin, then they walk around on top of it while its flying. And other planes come crashing down on it right in front of them, creating holes that let them jump down to the interior, and then take it over from the inside.
It's absolutely ridiculous. Not only did that obviously never really happen, but it's not even realistic. It's the kind of thing you'd expect from a Bond film.
And as if that wasn't bad enough, the main characters jump off the Zeppelin while it's up in the sky, without a parachute, and somehow survive without a scratch because they landed in water... (Water is almost like pavement if you jump from that height. They were above the clouds.)

And people were so outraged about this historically inaccurate (and unrealistic) scenario that they made a grand total of 0 topics to complain about it.
Meanwhile we've had several topics on the issue of a woman soldier fighting for England rather than Russia or whichever other nations had them on the front lines.
And people are livid about this. It's not the way people normally react when they don't like something about a game. Something about women and minorities get people really riled up to the point where they start boycotting campaigns and want it to fail.

Like Dice said, if you want a historical portrayal of things like that, don't count on it from their Battlefield games. They leave that to other developers.
You mentioned artists integrity, which reminds me, if they had stuck to trying to keep things historically accurate, then they would limit their creative freedom in what kind of story they could have written for this soldier. They've never worried about that in the previous Battlefield games.

The mechanical hand and katana are silly, out of place and over the top. Whether people like or dislike the arm and the katana is understandable. But it shouldn't come as a big surprise to anyone who has played through previous Battlefield games that they take liberties with the story and characters.
Metal Gear Solid is also based around real events from history, albeit much more loosely, since the focus of the story takes place entirely within fictive events. 
But whether you implement one scenario that never happened, or fifty, in both cases you end up with a game that isn't historically accurate. You can't just change some historical events, but not others. Either fully commit to portray an accurate retelling of events, or do whatever you want. Dice never intended to do the former with the Battlefield series.

the backlash wasnt due to people complaining about the katana in women in the front lines, it was because the response to that that nobody who liked that was "sexist". and the issue here is grander than just this game because its representing a trend of developers and publishers pushing political agendas in media regardless if its artist quality. 

 

the zeppeline is a perfect example. its reason, and thats the main point here, the REASON it was included because it was FUN. it was a purely artistic and gameplay design choice. it made the game better, not worse and thats why there werent many complains about it. AND because it wasnt in the first damn trailer of the game! this was the reveal for the game, the trailer that was going to set the tone and feel of the game, and EA/Dice decided to make it political, and thats the issue. the zeppeline is a poor rebuttal and only furthers my point of view.

 

Dice never intended to do commit to a historically accurate battlefield? then say so. have you watched the reveal event? i did. and a lot of focus was on "taking us back to WW2", "immersion", "realism". they were selling a WW2 game, and using WW2 as their marketing push. and then they revealed something else. katana's, prosthetics and bats. they built it up as something that will put you right in the middle of WW2, but they didnt deliver, hence the backlash. 

 "the team back home in Stockhom had a clear vision on what we wanted to do: deliver an unexpected take on the Second World War,” Senior Producer Andreas Morell added. “To tell the untold stories.”

ill give them that, they did deliver an "unexpected take", but they these arent "untold WW2 stories". EA/Dice cant have their cake and eat it too. if they want to use the appeal of WW2 then stick with it, but if they want fictional setting sell and market that, just like your example MGS does. 



flashfire926 said:
That's what they get for shoving sjw politics down our throats.

We've had our disagreements but I'm with you on this.

I absolutely adored the series till BF 5 was revealed, with its horrible reveal and the plethora of amazing games coming this fall I have no reason to buy it.



Oh no are we women haters now?



I personally don't have much issue with putting women in a game or whatever, but I can see why people are pissed off when you have a campaign revolving around women in a war mostly men died in. You want to show women here and there, thats fine. Hell, put them in the multiplayer if you really want (though this would make more sense for a modern shooter, but I won't mind), but I think the campaign was the final straw for a lot of people (putting women with prostethic limbs and katana's is just stupuid).



Made a bet with LipeJJ and HylianYoshi that the XB1 will reach 30 million before Wii U reaches 15 million. Loser has to get avatar picked by winner for 6 months (or if I lose, either 6 months avatar control for both Lipe and Hylian, or my patrick avatar comes back forever).