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Forums - Politics Discussion - Justin Trudeau clashes with eldery lady over illegal immigration: 'you Madame will have no place here'

 

Justin Trudeau

...dresses well 9 23.08%
 
...speaks French 8 20.51%
 
...invented peoplekinds 4 10.26%
 
... is the son of Fidel Castro 18 46.15%
 
Total:39
thismeintiel said:
Machiavellian said:

So what is the solution you would present for illegal immigration.  I am just wondering because I continue to read that people are all for legal immigration but what would you consider the standard.  Also putting illegal immigrants into prison, do you believe this is the route to success.  If you supported how Trump handled the border and believe that is the way to go, do you also support taken away their children, kicking out the parents or locking them up and not having a means to bring them back together.  Do you support such policy and how we should handle any and all illegal immigration or is this only for the border.

The solution is rather simple.  Sadly, no one has the balls to do it.  Maybe Trump will, but we'll see.

First thing is first, plug up the leak.  There's no point bailing a sinking ship one bucket at a time when gallons are pouring in.  Put up an actual border fence.  Double fence, in fact, that is buried several feet down and with enough space to drive vehicles in between, allowing border patrol to patrol the border in vehicles.  Hire more border patrol if needed.  And I don't want to hear any bullshit about cost.  This government spends so much damn money on bullshit that doesn't pertain to their #1 job of protecting citizens, it's not even funny.  Those things need to be cut, as well, but that's a different rant. 

Second, the instance we have an illegal immigrant who commits a crime, their ass goes back.  Again, I don't want to hear shit about dividing families.  We don't divide them, they chose to risk being divided by committing the crime to begin with.  We don't give people who are actual citizens a break because we might divide their families if they are shipped off to prison, we sure as hell aren't going to do it for people who came here by breaking the law and continue to do so once they are here. And if they want to take their families with them, that can be arranged.

Third, we have to deal with those who may have crossed the border illegally, but have not committed any further crimes.  I do agree we should have some compassion for them, but we can't let them off the hook completely.  They should have 1-2 years to come forward to announce who they are.  We do a background check, if nothing comes up, they are given temporary citizenship, with no right to vote.  If we find an illegal who has not done this within the 1-2 years we give them, they are deported, no excuses.  At this point, those who have come forward can chose to either do what must be done to become a full citizen and pay a small fine to make up for lost taxes or they can leave at the end of the time frame, or they will be deported.  A part of this will actually be enforcing the laws we already have that bar illegals from working.  If they wish to continue to work, they will feel compelled to come forward.  Or if not, not being able to find a job, they will self deport.

And fourth, the laws to become a citizen of the US need to loosened somewhat.  Before, someone didn't need to spend 10s of thousands and hire an immigration lawyer just to make it to the US, but for some reason, many now do.  My guess is this is just another kickback corrupt politicians have setup for their lawyer buddies, and has jack all to do with the safety of the country.  I mean it can't be, since they don't give a shit about the southern border.  There have also been several examples that I have read where someone tries to come into the country legally, and truly wants to be good part of this country, but doesn't meet one of the requirements, so is not allowed to come.  Yet, we continue to allow people who probably meet little or none of the requirements to become a citizen to just cross our border, not show up for a court date (if they are caught), and stay.  That is not only wrong, it is immoral. 

Sounds good to me.  Not still convince on the wall because as with any system, when money is involved, people will find away around it.  You basically will just get the small fries but not the big rings.



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TheLastStarFighter said:
Xeon said:
I'm an immigrant and Canadian citizen today. Now a productive member of society. Others deserve the chances I got so I don't see a problem with shutting her down like that.

Did you enter illegally?

My parents fled Vietnam and claimed refugee status in Hong Kong. I was born there then got sponsored to Canada. So no, it was legal for me. But my parents, not so much.



contestgamer said:
Xeon said:
I'm an immigrant and Canadian citizen today. Now a productive member of society. Others deserve the chances I got so I don't see a problem with shutting her down like that.

OK, but what country did you emigrate from?

Hong Kong. But my parents fled there illegally from Vietnam escaping the Communists.



Xeon said:
contestgamer said:

OK, but what country did you emigrate from?

Hong Kong. But my parents fled there illegally from Vietnam escaping the Communists.

Beware, the Communists are following you.  Soon, there will be nowhere left to run...if the North American left has their way.



Currently Replaying: Baten Kaitos

vivster said:
PwerlvlAmy said:

Refrain from going personal against people in this thread please. Thank you. 

You know his thread history as well as I do. How can I not get personal when this is about his person doing the same thread over and over, misconstruing facts and omitting the truth? How about you go against the repeat offenders who always do this instead of attacking the people trying to fight against it?

All reported but never is anything done about creating threads for the sole purpose of misrepresenting facts and bending the truth so hard that it breaks.

Yeah, that's how it works around here. Trolls can continue to be trolls and do their best to spread lies and work people up as long as they are good little trolls by staying juuuuust inside the lines and not breaking any rules. 

It's okay to be a shit disturber, but it's not okay to call out shit disturbers for being shit disturbers. That IS in the rules. 

It's also why I'm not too active on here (or most places, really. Too many websites have hilariously misplaced values and don't punish trolls well enough by the simple virtue of trolls knowing how to best use technicality to get around any actual repercussions for their actions.)

 

BANNED: Flaming & Spamming (Backseat Moderating)  ~ CGI

Last edited by CGI-Quality - on 20 August 2018

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vivster said:
melbye said:

What was intolerant with what she asked?

She was insinuating that the money spent to integrate immigrants was wasted and had to somehow be given back to her people, which is not how the world works and which is not how tolerance works.

Which was of course conveniently omitted by the OP to further peddle his bigoted agenda.

no, not really, it's not what she asked about.

Let put some context here. in the last... year and half or so, on the other side of the candian border, the president Donald Trump decided to fight illegal immigration. one of his policy was to terminate some visa that was given to immigrants after various disaster. Haiti earthquake for exemple. Some of those visa goes back in the early 2000 for Salvadorian. So people are in America now with those visa, and have live there for a while, getting job, putting their kids in school etc.  Those people that fear to be soon illegal in the USA, decided to try to make a refugee demand to Canada.

But, there's a treaty between Canada and the USA that is called the safe thrid country act, that stipulate that any refugee must make a demand in the country that they first arrived on. So, for a person that first arrived in the USA, if they go to a canadian border and ask for a refugee status, it will be automatically refused and the person will be escorted back in the USA, because she have the obligation to make the demand to the USA government, because it's the first country they landed in. So, those Haitians that had a temporary visa in the USA, cannot ask for a refugee status in Canada, because they have the obligation to make the demand in the USA, which will be refused because they want to cancel their visa.  easy enough to understand ?

Ok, now, if you cross the border illegaly from the USA to Canada, and get caught by the border patrol, then you say to the agents : "I want the refugee status" you enter a loophole. Your demand must be examinated by the immigration court of Canada. You cannot be repel to the USA like if you try to enter legally, because you are now a different type of refugee. About 50% of these people will eventually be returned in their home country, but before their case is processed they will be allowed to live in canada. that mean we have to give them a place to live, put their kids in school, and give them money for food and basic need. Often they can apply for a temporary working visa so that they can live on their own. 

Now back to the Trump refugees. A lot of Haitian refugees in the USA decided, when Trump announced that the temporary visa would be removed, feared that they would be forced to return to Haiti. They decided to move to Canada instead. But because of the safe third country act, it was impossible for them to place a demand to Canada. So they decided to enter illegaly. As you may know, canada and USA share a mostly unprotected border. If you want to cross the border, there's a lot of place you can try to. But those people actually want to be caught at the other side, because they want to ask the refugee status. And since most of the illigals are Haitian, and that Haiti is mostly a french and creole speaking country (creole being very similar to french), and that canada have the largest french speaking community in North America, as well a very large Haitian community in montreal, crossing the border in Quebec became tempting. Enter Roxam road...

https://goo.gl/maps/6tLF9bjMCp92

This road is a small isolated road that exist on both side of the border. It's only 5 km away from the official border point at Lacolle. So in august of 2017 people began to litteraly flock into canada from mostly this point. We are talking about 80 to 100 person per day that crossed there. The canadian border patrol cannot do anything, because technically those people are in the USA. The only thing they can do is to tell them that they will be arrested if they cross, but that's basically what they want. And the USA border patrol will not do anything, because they are only concerned by people trying to get in the USA, not out. 

To give you an estimate, between january 1st and mai 30th 2018, 9481 illegal immigrants were caught crossing the canadian border from the USA. 9082 of them, crossed at Roxham road. At first it was mostly Haitians that were crossing, but the word spread, and actually there's now a network of people that transport refugees from New-York to the border. They now come from a lot of different country. They land in JFK as tourist, and they cross the border after a few days. All those refugees and their familly like I said before must be take care for. Kids have to go in school, ressources have to be put in place to process the demands, check on them to be sure that they have their basis need taken care of, give them medical care if they need to, etc. And all thoses addition ressources are mostly the responsability of the province, Quebec in that case. You began to see what is the money that old lady was talking about ? So yeah it's estimated that it costed about 146 millions of dollar to the Quebec government to take care of all these illegal immigrant since last year. Ottawa is supposed to pay some of it, but not all, and it's unclear when they pay and how much. People here see that as unfair for Quebec, since we received 95% of the illegal immigrants, and that we have to pay for them, but that immigration is mostly the Federal responsability. 

 

That said, I think it's legit to ask that question. Yes, what Ottawa will do with the burden put on Quebec finances because of illegal immigration? But it was not the time, and certainly not the way to do it. 

 

wow, sorry for the long post...

Last edited by Marach - on 20 August 2018

Radek said:
SpokenTruth said:

Wow.  That's quite the generalization there.

When you read what happens every few days in countries like Sweden, Germany and even France you will understand what I mean.

There's a lot of  talk in the news about Poland and Hungary not taking migrants, but there's very little talk what's actually happening in Sweden or Germany.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1003500/youths-torch-100-cars-across-sweden

https://www.dw.com/en/german-doctor-stabbed-to-death-at-practice/a-45108969

And things like this happen like every week.

Germany can't force whole of EU to follow their stance of migrants, from what I heard Germany doesn't rule the EU or does it?

There's a reason developed countries like Japan and South Korea  do not want Muslim migrants as well, but I don't see much  coverage and bashing  Japan in the media... I wonder why it is? Why is it always Poland? We've suffered enough in XIX and XX century already, please let us develop in peace.

We are a poor country that was occupied for over a century, then ruined and bombed to hell in World War I and World War 2 with 50 years of communism to follow, we did not have colonies in Africa, Asia and Americas like French, Italian, Spanish, Portguguese, English and Dutch. We  own Middle East nothing and they don't respect our values and our way of life.

Nice background context. Thank you for this post. 



Bet with Teeqoz for 2 weeks of avatar and sig control that Super Mario Odyssey would ship more than 7m on its first 2 months. The game shipped 9.07m, so I won

Radek said:
Xeon said:

My parents fled Vietnam and claimed refugee status in Hong Kong. I was born there then got sponsored to Canada. So no, it was legal for me. But my parents, not so much.

Vietnamese people are hard working people that easily integrate and don't commit  many crimes.

People really like Vietnamese immigrants and there's plenty of them in my city in Poland.

Now immigrants from Muslim countries are a different thing entirely...

I know plenty of people of Vietnamese decent who commit crimes. I know plenty of people from Muslim countries who do not.



Radek said:
Xeon said:

My parents fled Vietnam and claimed refugee status in Hong Kong. I was born there then got sponsored to Canada. So no, it was legal for me. But my parents, not so much.

Vietnamese people are hard working people that easily integrate and don't commit  many crimes.

People really like Vietnamese immigrants and there's plenty of them in my city in Poland.

Now immigrants from Muslim countries are a different thing entirely...

Exactly what I was getting at. You emigrated from HK, that's totally different than the immigrants this old woman is talking about. You cant generalize from your experience to theirs, they're different cultures.



Radek said:

There's a lot of  talk in the news about Poland and Hungary not taking migrants, but there's very little talk what's actually happening in Sweden or Germany.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1003500/youths-torch-100-cars-across-sweden

It is interesting that you would choose this as your leading example here as it does not attribute this torching to migrants or immigrants. It lists no perpetrator.

So, how much are car burnings attributable to the recent surge of migrants? Here is a quote from Washington Post:

"But when it comes to intentionally setting fire to cars, said Manne Gerell, a lecturer in criminology at Sweden’s Malmo University, such incidents have increased “big-time” over the past couple decades — but not in the past two or so years. Across Sweden, he said, about 1,500 cars are burned each year. The reasons can include insurance fraud, hiding other crimes, social unrest and “random youth vandalism,” he said."

Basically, he states that they haven't really seen a significant increase in car burnings from the recent migrant surge, however, it does seem that this phenomenon is largely homegrown. While information may come out in the future regarding this event, it is important to take it all into perspective.

It is also important to look at the numbers outside of simple anecdotes for other types of crime. Lets look at homicide data. In 2017, the homicide rate in Sweden was about 1.15 (per 100k). In the USA homicide rates are somewhere around 4.5 (per 100k) (from what I can tell, 2017 data isn't out yet, but

While anecdotes are scary, the numbers consistently suggest that Sweden is significantly safer than the USA (and certain cities in the USA blow it out of the water).