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Forums - Gaming Discussion - The Truth behind MS and Rare

Mr Puggsly on 11 August 2018
SammyGiireal said:

There will always be a soft spot in my heart for Rare. The N64 is my favorite console and part of reason for that was Rare's constant output of good (Jet Force Gemini) to great (Golden Eye) AAA games for that system.

Even Star Fox Adventures was a decent gorgeous looking game. But their woes did start during their GC days. Microsoft paid top dollar for Rare, much more than they paid for bungie ( which in retrospective was a dumb move) during the late 90s early 00s Rare was as highly regarded as Naughty Dog is today. I remember being excited about Microsoft acquiring them until I played Perfect Dark Zero. 

While PDZ looked good, the game played like Halo 1 (or 2) never happened. It felt like playing an HD version of one of their N64 shooters. Then I was underwhelmed by their Banjo game. Rare seemed stuck in the 90s trying to replicate the magic, while competing titles evolved. My guess is that apart from the founders, some of the original staff left and since Nintendo no longer supervised them, the quality of their games took a plunge. 

So Microsoft isn't to blame, in fact they were very high on Rare during the early days. Nintendo no longer working with them might have had a bigger impact. Thankfully Sea of Thieves while not a critical success has been a commercial hit...I guess more than a decade later that gamble MS took on them paid off.

PDZ wasn't a terrible game, but it felt like a 6th gen game with better graphics.

Viva Pinata was considered notable game. I'm actually a big fan of Banjo N&B, I argue one of the best 3D platformers ever made.

Where Rare arguably paid off is Kinect Sports and its sequel, those sold very well. I believe they also designed or helped create the Xbox avatars. Later the Killer Instinct IP was used which is a great game. Now they have Sea of Thieves which is apparently a successful game.

The purchase of Rare has been worthwhile, they've also added some unique content to MS's 1st party. There is also more they can do with the IPs whether its with Rare or a 3rd party.



Recently Completed: 
River City: Rival Showdown for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

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Mr Puggsly on 11 August 2018
curl-6 said:

Rare had turned to shit before MS bought them; their last game with Nintendo, Starfox Adventures, was trash too. They haven't made a good game since the N64.

Incorrect, Banjo N&B is fantastic.

I also had a fun with Kinect Sports.



Recently Completed: 
River City: Rival Showdown for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

curl-6 on 11 August 2018
Mr Puggsly said:
curl-6 said:

Rare had turned to shit before MS bought them; their last game with Nintendo, Starfox Adventures, was trash too. They haven't made a good game since the N64.

Incorrect, Banjo N&B is fantastic.

I also had a fun with Kinect Sports.

I couldn't stand Nuts and Bolts, the fiddly physics and trial-and-error construction made it a tedious chore.

Was never a fan of Kinect in general.



SammyGiireal on 11 August 2018
Mr Puggsly said:
SammyGiireal said:

There will always be a soft spot in my heart for Rare. The N64 is my favorite console and part of reason for that was Rare's constant output of good (Jet Force Gemini) to great (Golden Eye) AAA games for that system.

Even Star Fox Adventures was a decent gorgeous looking game. But their woes did start during their GC days. Microsoft paid top dollar for Rare, much more than they paid for bungie ( which in retrospective was a dumb move) during the late 90s early 00s Rare was as highly regarded as Naughty Dog is today. I remember being excited about Microsoft acquiring them until I played Perfect Dark Zero. 

While PDZ looked good, the game played like Halo 1 (or 2) never happened. It felt like playing an HD version of one of their N64 shooters. Then I was underwhelmed by their Banjo game. Rare seemed stuck in the 90s trying to replicate the magic, while competing titles evolved. My guess is that apart from the founders, some of the original staff left and since Nintendo no longer supervised them, the quality of their games took a plunge. 

So Microsoft isn't to blame, in fact they were very high on Rare during the early days. Nintendo no longer working with them might have had a bigger impact. Thankfully Sea of Thieves while not a critical success has been a commercial hit...I guess more than a decade later that gamble MS took on them paid off.

PDZ wasn't a terrible game, but it felt like a 6th gen game with better graphics.

Viva Pinata was considered notable game. I'm actually a big fan of Banjo N&B, I argue one of the best 3D platformers ever made.

Where Rare arguably paid off is Kinect Sports and its sequel, those sold very well. I believe they also designed or helped create the Xbox avatars. Later the Killer Instinct IP was used which is a great game. Now they have Sea of Thieves which is apparently a successful game.

The purchase of Rare has been worthwhile, they've also added some unique content to MS's 1st party. There is also more they can do with the IPs whether its with Rare or a 3rd party.

I am glad you found Joy in Banjo N&B. I thought it was gorgeous but didn't enjoy it to the degree I later enjoyed the Galaxy games or even the original Jack and Daxter. I never played Kameo or Piñata after the PDZ and Banjo NB. But times change it would be unfair to expect the old N64 days again. Yeah Kinect Sports was successful perhaps Microsoft did get back their money on the strength of those sales.



Mr Puggsly on 11 August 2018
curl-6 said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Incorrect, Banjo N&B is fantastic.

I also had a fun with Kinect Sports.

I couldn't stand Nuts and Bolts, the fiddly physics and trial-and-error construction made it a tedious chore.

Was never a fan of Kinect in general.

Rare games in general can be tedious. There is nothing quite like Banjo N&B though, you build things to complete missions and that allows for creativity. So if you're open to that its a great games. There are many missions I replayed just to complete it in a new and faster way.

Regardless how feel about Kinect, Kinect Sports was a notable motion sports game.

Hence, they had some genuinely good content even if they weren't appealing to you.



Recently Completed: 
River City: Rival Showdown for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

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curl-6 on 11 August 2018
Mr Puggsly said:
curl-6 said:

I couldn't stand Nuts and Bolts, the fiddly physics and trial-and-error construction made it a tedious chore.

Was never a fan of Kinect in general.

Rare games in general can be tedious. There is nothing quite like Banjo N&B though, you build things to complete missions and that allows for creativity. So if you're open to that its a great games. There are many missions I replayed just to complete it in a new and faster way.

Regardless how feel about Kinect, Kinect Sports was a notable motion sports game.

Hence, they had some genuinely good content even if they weren't appealing to you.

I am open to creativity, but N&B just wasn't any fun, it always felt like monotonous busywork, especially when you spent ages tediously assembling a vehicle only to find the challenge was unwinnable cos of the way you built it.

And notable does not equal good. Quality is a matter of subjective opinion and Kinect Sports was garbage in my assessment, how "notable" it was doesn't enter the equation.



Wyrdness on 11 August 2018
Mr Puggsly said:
Ka-pi96 said:
The real talent left Rare in '98.

Still, Microsoft could have invested in them, recruited new talent and made some good games. But they didn't so...

I'm not disagreeing the talent left. But where did they go? We haven't seen a lot of notable come from former Rare people. Yooka Laylee was a disappointment as well.

Also, the Xbox audience isn't the same as the Nintendo audience. They couldn't rest on their laurels and achieve the same success.

Free Radical was one studio a number of members create and they developed the Timesplitters series before being bought by Crytek and helping develop Crysis 2 and 3.



Mr Puggsly on 11 August 2018
SammyGiireal said:
Mr Puggsly said:

PDZ wasn't a terrible game, but it felt like a 6th gen game with better graphics.

Viva Pinata was considered notable game. I'm actually a big fan of Banjo N&B, I argue one of the best 3D platformers ever made.

Where Rare arguably paid off is Kinect Sports and its sequel, those sold very well. I believe they also designed or helped create the Xbox avatars. Later the Killer Instinct IP was used which is a great game. Now they have Sea of Thieves which is apparently a successful game.

The purchase of Rare has been worthwhile, they've also added some unique content to MS's 1st party. There is also more they can do with the IPs whether its with Rare or a 3rd party.

I am glad you found Joy in Banjo N&B. I thought it was gorgeous but didn't enjoy it to the degree I later enjoyed the Galaxy games or even the original Jack and Daxter. I never played Kameo or Piñata after the PDZ and Banjo NB. But times change it would be unfair to expect the old N64 days again. Yeah Kinect Sports was successful perhaps Microsoft did get back their money on the strength of those sales.

As I was just saying to curl-6, I enjoyed Banjo N&B because its so unique compared to other platformers. You weren't just running through a level and collecting things per se, it was the building aspect and trying to figure out the best way to complete a mission that made it addictive to me. As far as I'm aware its a very original game, not much else like it.

I think the estimates of what MS paid for Rare was like $500 million. If they ever made that money back, I assume the biggest profits were from Kinect Sports, Killer Instinct, Rare Replay, and Sea of Thieves. I wouldn't be surprised if they're still in the red, but buying Rare was a risk MS could easily take and they can still get more out of Rare's IPs.



Recently Completed: 
River City: Rival Showdown for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

Mr Puggsly on 11 August 2018
curl-6 said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Rare games in general can be tedious. There is nothing quite like Banjo N&B though, you build things to complete missions and that allows for creativity. So if you're open to that its a great games. There are many missions I replayed just to complete it in a new and faster way.

Regardless how feel about Kinect, Kinect Sports was a notable motion sports game.

Hence, they had some genuinely good content even if they weren't appealing to you.

I am open to creativity, but N&B just wasn't any fun, it always felt like monotonous busywork, especially when you spent ages tediously assembling a vehicle only to find the challenge was unwinnable cos of the way you built it.

And notable does not equal good. Quality is a matter of subjective opinion and Kinect Sports was garbage in my assessment, how "notable" it was doesn't enter the equation.

Right... if your vehicle didn't work than you would go back to building editor and try something new. Sometimes you could come up with a solution to finish a mission in seconds. Again, its gonna be boring unless you're open to building. Its also the kind of game you can enjoy while listen to a podcast, listening to the news, etc. It was a fun game that didn't require your undivided attention. Sometimes that's what I want.

I think some games could fall into a category of objectively bad and poorly designed. That games we're talking about were good even if you didn't enjoy them.



Recently Completed: 
River City: Rival Showdown for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

Mr Puggsly on 11 August 2018
Wyrdness said:
Mr Puggsly said:

I'm not disagreeing the talent left. But where did they go? We haven't seen a lot of notable come from former Rare people. Yooka Laylee was a disappointment as well.

Also, the Xbox audience isn't the same as the Nintendo audience. They couldn't rest on their laurels and achieve the same success.

Free Radical was one studio a number of members create and they developed the Timesplitters series before being bought by Crytek and helping develop Crysis 2 and 3.

So even those guys didn't stick to what Rare was known for. Timesplitters games are over rated in my opinion, at least compared to other notable shooters of the era.



Recently Completed: 
River City: Rival Showdown for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)