By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Sony Discussion - Sony first Party games sales, A huge leap from PS3 era. ( Entered Ninty Level ) Update: GOW at 10m & Uncharted 4 16M

colafitte on 22 May 2019
RolStoppable said:

colafitte said:

Where did you get the notion that Nintendo's pace over the last 9 months has been much faster than Sony's??.

First of all, Nintendo numbers are shipped, Sony's numbers are always sold to consumers. That's an important point to note.

Second point. Uncharted 4, is a perfect example of legs. The game was announced to have sold to consumeres 8'7M by the end of 2016. So in 2017, 2018 and half 2019 the game has sold another 8M of units to consumers....That's are very good legs for me. Horizon Zero Dawn, started with 2'6M sold to consumers in 2 weeks, 7'6M sold to consumers in 12 months, and "more than 10M" sold to consumers after 24 months, so another 3M sold in a year. I'm pretty convinced that GOW and Spiderman will match that level of legs and even surpassed them.

"Nintendo has lined up more for the next 9 month than Sony". What?. Do Days Gone, The Last of Us Part II, Dreams, Ghosts of Tsushima, Death Stranding disappeared all of a sudden??. What new games does Nintendo have for the next 9 months to match those games??. Super Mario Maker 2, Pokemon Sword& Shield, Animal Crossing and......what exactly? What i am missing? Do we count unannounced games??

Mario Kart 8 Deluxe increased by 6.3m in the last nine months, Super Mario Odyssey by 3.2m, Breath of the Wild by 3.4m, Splatoon 2 by 1.9m. SSBU released to 13.8m, Pokémon: Let's go is at 10.6m, Super Mario Party at 6.4m. Do Sony's releases measure up to that? No, they don't.

Sell-through vs. shipments hardly matters. In order for shipments to grow over time, copies of the games have to be sold through, otherwise retailers won't order more.

I think it's highly optimistic that you expect all the Sony games you named to release within the next nine months. Likewise, I don't expect all Nintendo games (such as Luigi's Mansion 3) to be released within the next nine months. One thing that is important is that Nintendo releases a higher quantity of games. Titles like Fire Emblem, Astral Chain and Daemon X Machina won't add much to the grand total (especially not the latter two), but those little things add up over time.

I gave you numbers of Uncharted 4 and HZD. Did you not see how i said that U4 sold anoter 8M in 2'5 years and HZD sold anoter 3M last year?!?!?! And TLOU has the best legs of them all...

Do GOW, Spiderman, DG releases similar to those games you name??, OF COURSE THEY DO. ?¿?¿

LOL at this point. It matters when you are comparing numbers of course!! If one is shipped numbers and the other is sold to consumers, the first one will always have added numbers the other doesn't. Another oportunistic point of yours. If it was the opposite you would not say the same....If we were counting shipped numbers for Sony games we probably should add 1-1'5M more to each number depending on the game.

Days Gone, TLOU Part II, Ghosts of Tsushima, Death Stranding are made to be big sellers, and maybe they launch in the next 9 months or don't, do you know for sure?. All of those games will launch before 2020 ends anyway as Sony stated. I named Dreams like i named Super Mario Maker 2. Neither of those are guarantee either. I will admit SMM2 has better chances though.

What?, that Nintendo launches a higher quantity of games?. Are we forgetting games like Concrete Genie, Medievil Remake, and all PS VR games that are going to launch this year??

At the end of the day, Nintendo could still sell better, but the point of this thread was that Sony is in a situation where they can compete to Nintendo regarding sales, and the mere fact that we are doing this right now, discussing which games will sell better or not, is proof that the original point of the OP was right.

Last edited by colafitte - on 22 May 2019

Around the Network
NoCtiS_NoX on 22 May 2019
RolStoppable said:

I think there's a disconnect here. The point of contention throughout this thread has not been whether or not Sony's first party game sales have grown substantially from one generation to the next. That is impressive and has been acknowledged by most people who posted in this thread, including myself.

The actual point of contention has been if Sony is now on the same level as Nintendo. The response to that has been that it can only hold true if certain Nintendo consoles are picked for comparison, such as Wii U and 3DS. But given that this thread was made at a time when Switch was Nintendo's current platform, the most obvious comparison for Sony being on the same level as Nintendo now is a comparison with Switch.

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8864513

You know that it should be a given to sell more games on the PS4 than on the Wii U with its 13.5m units sold. Sony's first party is still quite a long way away from matching the first party game sales of the 3DS. That the 3DS isn't Nintendo's best is already made clear by Switch, Nintendo's current console that basically matches Sony's output of 4.5 years on the PS4 within 1.5 years and that also comes with a huge disadvantage in installed base.

Sony being on the same level as Nintendo can only be said if Wii U is the measuring stick.

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8865433

 I wasn't only talking about Uncharted 4 when I said that Sony's games will stall around 10m. I include all of Sony's big sellers that have already been mentioned in this thread. Sony needs games that sell 15m+, because Nintendo is already bound to have a few games cross that mark on Switch.

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8865829

Nintendo games exceed 15m and 20m too though, so getting to 10m isn't really Nintendo level. You keep using TLoU's sales that combine the original PS3 version and the remastered PS4 version.

I will just leave it here. 

I am not sure what to say to you anymore.
I have flawed logic yeah sure but I am very consistent on what I am trying to tell. 

UC4 reached 15M+ oops we cannot use it anymore. 

I once said this before if you are using already the best output of Nintendo then I think I already made a point.



colafitte on 22 May 2019
RolStoppable said:
colafitte said:

I gave you numbers of Uncharted 4 and HZD. Did you not see how i said that U4 sold anoter 8M in 2'5 years and HZD sold anoter 3M last year?!?!?!

Do GOW, Spiderman, DG releases similar to those games you name??, OF COURSE THEY DO. ?¿?¿

LOL at this point. It matters when you are comparing numbers of course!! If one is shipped numbers and the other is sold to consumers, the first one will always have added numbers the other doesn't. Another oportunistic point of yours. If it was the opposite you would not say the same....If we were counting shipped numbers for Sony games we probably should add 1-1'5M more to each number depending on the game.

Days Gone, TLOU Part II, Ghosts of Tsushima, Death Stranding are made to be big sellers, and maybe they launch in the next 9 months or don't, do you know for sure?. All of those games will launch before 2020 ends anyway as Sony stated. I named Dreams like i named Super Mario Maker 2. Neither of those are guarantee either. I will admit SMM2 has better chances though.

What?, that Nintendo launches a higher quantity of games?. Are we forgetting games like Concrete Genie, Medievil Remake, and all PS VR games that are going to launch this year??

At the end of the day, Nintendo could still sell better, but the point of this thread was that Sony is in a situation where they can compete to Nintendo regarding sales, and the mere fact that we are doing this right now, discussing which games will sell better or not, is proof that the original point of the OP was right.

I saw the numbers you provided and I responded by giving you the numbers for Nintendo games. 8m for Uncharted 4 in 2.5 years is worse than Mario Kart 8 Deluxe adding 6.3m in only nine months. The legs of Breath of the Wild have been better than those of Horizon Zero Dawn; not by much, but more is more.

Regarding shipped vs. sold, it's not the way you explain it. For example, nine months ago Mario Kart 8 Deluxe's shipped number included 0.5-1m copies on shelves, just as a rough estimate. Nine months later, the number of copies on shelves are in the same range because retailers are not going to hoard copies all of a sudden. So when shipped numbers of nine months ago are compared with shipped numbers of today, the difference between them is effectively sell-through.

Since this discussion has become a stalemate with no real progress, I'll try a different approach by removing the Sony vs. Nintendo context.

LTD console sales by the end of calendar year 2019 for the Xbox One and Switch will both fall into the range of 45-50m. Now imagine if someone made a thread and declared that Microsoft and Nintendo are on the same level. It probably wouldn't take long until someone pointed out that the Xbox One has been on the market for over six years while Switch has been on the market for under three years, and therefore Microsoft and Nintendo are not on the same level because the context of time has to be taken into account. It's also likely that most people would expect Switch to sell significantly more units than the XB1 lifetime, because that's what the sales rate over the years suggests.

The legs of MK8 DX are better than U4, yes. The legs of BOTW are not better than UC4 or HZD. TLOU R has the best legs of all. 12M as remaster, and 3M in the last year, even if it's a game from 2014, and a remaster of an already succesful game of 2013.

Like you said, "more is more" and if one counts shipments and the other doesn't, it's an unfair comparison. Period.

I already tell you earlier in this thread that:

2013 TLOU

2014 MK8

2014 TLOU R

2017 MK 8 DX, BOTW, HZD, SMO

2018 GOW, Spiderman, SSBU, PKMN LG

That point will be valid if GOW, HZD, Spiderman or U4 were launched 4 years before than SMO, Z BOTW or SSBU like the difference between Switch and XBO, but it's not the case.

Since May 2016 Sony has launched:

Uncharted 4 : 16M sold (probably 17M shipped)

Horizon Zero Dawn: 11M sold (probably 12M shipped)

God of War: 11M sold (probably 12M shipped)

Spider-Man: 9M sold before December, i'm pretty sure the game must be around 12M sold right now, at least (so probably around 13M shipped)

So in total: Around 50M sold probably and around 55M shipped. And if you want what games have sold since 2017, you can rest 8'7M sold to consumers and probably around 10M shipped of Uncharted 4 numbers during 2016. So around 41M sold and 45M shipped.

In the same period Nintendo has launched these new games:

Z BOTW: 12'8M shipped on Switch, probably around 1'5M more on WiiU, so let's say around 14'5M shipped

SMO: 14'4M shipped

SSBU: 13'8M shipped

PKMN LG: 10'6M shipped

In total: 53'3M shipped.

That's 4 games against 4 games. But yes, if you want to add the port that MK8 DX is, then Nintendo has the advantage with 70M shipped with one game more. You could add too games like Splatoon 2, Super Mario Party, ... and it would be fair, but then we will need to add games like GT Sport, Ratchet and Clank 2016, Uncharted The Lost Legacy, ... which we doesn't have updated numbers.

So in the end, the only real difference maker between Sony and Nintendo is Mario Kart, which i always admited is the biggest seller of both companies...by far. But that doesn't deny the point that Sony is getting closer and closer....

Last edited by colafitte - on 22 May 2019

Train wreck on 22 May 2019
Train wreck said: 

That's odd, I'm guessing that Uncharted Lost Legacy and the Nathan Drake collection are not a thing.

Any expectations that PS4 will be able to keep up with Switch?

--I don't know, is there a current expectation that the 3DS/Wii U will keep up with the PS4? 



Replicant on 22 May 2019
CGI-Quality said:
Replicant said:

Fair enough. But the thread will most likely keep getting derailed then.

Then don’t contribute to it

I struggle to see how I derail the thread by pointing out that Bloodborne has sold much more than 1M. That is literally what the thread is about (Sony first party game sales)

What the thread is not about is how the numbers aren't impressive because Nintendo's numbers are better. Granted, the thread title include "Entered Ninty Level" but I think it's an unnecessary comparison and only does the thread a disservice. Additionally, OP has already clarified that it isn't an attack on Ninty fans but just another way for him to say "entered top tier levels", so I fail to see why it's worth it to leave it in the title.

We've had thread after thread praising and congratulating Nintendo for the incredible strong sales of all their evergreen titles without a bunch of people entering to downplay. Why is it that we can't have a single thread on this site praising anything PS or XB related without all this petty back and forth?



Around the Network
DonFerrari on 22 May 2019

Only thing I don't understand on this discussion is why people are confusing "entering the level" with surpassing.

The OP and thread only means, that after 4 gens Sony have been consistently putting out games that sell on levels that Nintendo have been doing for a very long time. in PS1-PS3 you would only expect GT to cross 10M, but then Uncharted and TLOU appeared and got near it still on PS3. But just this gen we have come to a situation that a Sony IP can be expected to cross 10M, instead of just acting surprise it crossed 5M.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Replicant on 22 May 2019
CGI-Quality said:
Replicant said:

I struggle to see how I derail the thread by pointing out that Bloodborne has sold much more than 1M. That is literally what the thread is about (Sony first party game sales)

What the thread is not about is how the numbers aren't impressive because Nintendo's numbers are better. Granted, the thread title include "Entered Ninty Level" but I think it's an unnecessary comparison and only does the thread a disservice. Additionally, OP has already clarified that it isn't an attack on Ninty fans but just another way for him to say "entered top tier levels", so I fail to see why it's worth it to leave it in the title.

We've had thread after thread praising and congratulating Nintendo for the incredible strong sales of all their evergreen titles without a bunch of people entering to downplay. Why is it that we can't have a single thread on this site praising anything PS or XB related without all this petty back and forth?

1: You derail the thread by continuing to bring up that it has gone off-topic. Has nothing to do with anything you said about Bloodborne. 

2: As for the thread title, OP doesn't want to change it and he isn't going to be forced to. Whole first page is literally people simply discussing what was originally intended. We're not changing titles because a few people have taken things off-topic.

3: So, it is ultimately time to move on from that discussion.

1: I've always seen you as a fair and level-headed moderator so it's kinda disappointing that you act as if me answering OP one time is the same as "continuing to bring up".

2: How in the world have you come to the conclusion that answering OP with a "Fair enough" is me wanting to force him to change the title?

3: Then move on...



NathanSSSS on 22 May 2019

Uh oh, seems like some one's not happy with the numbers revealed by Sony recently. There can't be some one who really think a company can dominate in some specific things forever, grow up.



colafitte on 22 May 2019
CGI-Quality said:
RolStoppable said:

The problem is on the people who think that crossing 10m with a few games puts Sony on the same level as Nintendo who have had several IPs surpassing the 20m mark in the past and Switch allows Nintendo to do that again after a botched generation with the Wii U and 3DS. When 10m is considered a different level than 5m, then 15m constitutes a different level than 10m, and 20m is a different level than 15m, and so on.

For console sales, you wouldn't make some arbitrary rule where everything above 50m should be considered the same level either. You'd insist that there's still a clear difference between 50m and 100m, for example.

A lot of truth to this.

I can dig the idea of Sony entering a realm once dominated by Nintendo, but I get why it is being challenged. Remove personal preferences and the opposing argument keeps its strength. On the flip side, it's still good to see such growth once only imagined by Gran Turismo. 

A lot of truth on what? On Sony 1st party games selling the same as Nintendo 1st party games?

I already exposed numbers as fact in this thread so everyone could see what Nintendo and Sony have done in recent years. What "personal preference" has anything to do with that?

Wich "several IP's" have surpassed 20M on home consoles like Rol said?. Are we counting handheld games now?, games that are sold at a cheaper price than home console versions and that require a cheaper console to play them?? Do we count Mobile gaming sales then here too? Because not a 3D Mario, not a Smash Bros, not a Zelda, not an Animal Crossing, not a Splatoon game have sold that much. Just Wii Sport alike games (which were heavily bundled games on the Wii), 2D Mario games and Mario Kart games. So please, we shouldn't act as if selling more than 20M is the norm with each Nintendo Ip.

Just before Switch, the best selling 3D Mario was Super Mario 64 on N64 with almost 12M sold. Best selling Zelda game was Ocarina of Time on N64 with almost 8M sold. Best Smash Bros was Super Smash Bros Melee on Wii with almost 13M sold. Best selling Animal Crossing was New Leaf on 3DS with almost 11M. And to find the last Pokemon game that sold 20M or more we have to go back to the original GB, because recent Pokemon games on DS and 3DS have been around 15-18M sold.

I see a pattern here of similar numbers....

Until Switch those were the landmark of best selling Nintendo games  in more than 20 years of Nintendo history. Those records for those games were around 10-20M sold, a number Sony wasn't even close to reach except for Gran Turismo games until PS4 came.

Nintendo is doing so great with Switch that they are even surpassing those numbers and records for those IPs, but you know what, Uncharted, The Last of Us, God of War, Horizon Zero Dawn, Spiderman are surpassing those records too.

Last edited by colafitte - on 22 May 2019

Replicant on 22 May 2019
CGI-Quality said:

For the record, you didn't simply say 'fair enough' and leave it at that, you followed it up with: "But the thread will most likely keep getting derailed then". To which I said: "don't contribute to it" meaning don't add yourself to the problem. You've had ample opportunity to get things back on track and have yet to do it.

So, this is the last time I'm going to tell you to drop it. 

Yeah, I see now that bold was an unnecessary addition. Especially if the comparisons between Sony and Nintendo sales are in fact what OP intended with the thread. The reason why I thought the comparisons were off topic was due to OP saying that he didn't intend to take a dig at Nintendo and that he could've just as well written "entered top tier levels".

I apologize.