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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Why are third party games selling well on Switch?

GoOnKid on 13 August 2018
Barkley said:
Miyamotoo said:

That dont change fact they are selling, VGC numbers are not most accurate we all know that, and they dont include digital sales, T2 and Bethesda said they are satisfied with sales of their games on Switch, thats why we have NBA 2K19 and new Doom game for instance.

I dont see that how future games can sell worse when games on Switch still selling very werll and Switch istall base is rapidly growing, next year Switch will have much bigger install base with much more potential buyers, you sound like Switch install base is shrinking. You cant relly comparing sales of games on same platform with 10-15m install base and with 30-40-50m+ install base.

There's plenty of precedent for games selling worse on a higher install base.

SMG launched to an install base of 15.1m and sold 11.4m copies, SMG 2 launched to an install base of 70.37m and sold 7.57m.

So it had an install base almost 5 times larger but sold 44% less!

Higher Install Base doesn't necessarily mean Higher Sales for individual games. BOTW wouldn't have sold 40m if it launched to an install base of 100m.

I believe interest in third party titles such as Skyrim, Doom and Fifa will dissipate, or at least not increase substantially as the install base grows. Fifa is never going to be selling 3m+ on switch, even as it's install base grows to 80m or beyond. There are more games to choose from on Switch now, and the novelty of "ooh look we're actually getting western AAA games on a nintendo console!" will wear off.

Equally I think the people purchasing games like Fifa on the Switch aren't the type who will need to have the latest all the time. They have a Fifa game on the Switch and they probably won't bother upgrading to Fifa 19...20... etc.

 I agree with one thing but I disagree with another. Install base doesn't necessarily mean higher sales - but a hugher sales potential. Not the same thing, but sales potential is a necessity for sales. I guess these two get confused quite often. Please don't imply I think it's you in particular to confuse this, this is more of a general thought.

However, putting all sales onto the novelty effect is faulty imo, because after the novelty effect is when the "oooh so now after the I bought this console and after I'm done with my first few games what am I going to do now? Hmm I might want to look at what  buy next" effect kicks in.



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potato_hamster on 13 August 2018
duduspace1 said:
potato_hamster said:

Okay. So there's titles on Wikipedia that aren't on Nintendo's IR page, clearly. Should these games not count because they aren't on Nintendo's pages? I mean it's obvious that there is an objectively correct fact here. I'm just no longer sure which one of us have come to it. I'll concede that ground to you. It doesn't really matter much anyways. My entire point was about how low of a bar people are setting, and I used the Wii U as an example of that. If that one turns out to be poor - my bad. But there are still other platforms I could have used to illustrate my point, so it doesn't really make sense to get hung up on an example when it was one of many.

And I'm not brushing off any legit data as moving goalposts. Quite the opposite. I'm saying that me brushing off those titles can be seen as "moving the goalposts" , and I can understand that. But again, I'm poking fun at how low that bar is. If you need to dip into that pool to justify a point your making, it's a pretty shaky point in my opinion.

What bar are you talking about ? We already know what the lowest bar is for Nintendo and 3rd parties, its the Wii U. That isn't people setting a bar, it is a bar that just exists.

Anything the Switch does has to be viewed in that light. Nobody has claimed yet that the Switch is selling Multiplats as well as the PS4 but it is selling well enough to justify further sale of such Multiplatforms  that have been released on it.

The bar of essentially "the Switch has better third party support than some other consoles that had terrible third party support, therefore it has good third party support".

Another analogy - imagine getting the 4th lowest mark in a class of 30 people. Would you say you're doing well in that class just because you can point to a few people you did better than?



duduspace1 on 13 August 2018
potato_hamster said:
duduspace1 said:

What bar are you talking about ? We already know what the lowest bar is for Nintendo and 3rd parties, its the Wii U. That isn't people setting a bar, it is a bar that just exists.

Anything the Switch does has to be viewed in that light. Nobody has claimed yet that the Switch is selling Multiplats as well as the PS4 but it is selling well enough to justify further sale of such Multiplatforms  that have been released on it.

The bar of essentially "the Switch has better third party support than some other consoles that had terrible third party support, therefore it has good third party support".

Another analogy - imagine getting the 4th lowest mark in a class of 30 people. Would you say you're doing well in that class just because you can point to a few people you did better than?

Everything in life is relative............only fanatics deal in absolutes as you seem to be doing hence insinuations that you are a fanboy or Nintendo hater are not really far off the mark.

I always go with the original post that started off a thread, the OP was very clear about what they meant in terms of what they considered "Good" Multiplat sales on the Switch. It is all well and good to dispute elements of that post but it should not become a crusade where you begin to shift goalposts and  selectively apply statistics. 

I don't think anyone (the original poster included) has so far made the claim that the Switch is currently selling some genre of multiplats as well as the PS4, the basic claim has been that there is an uptick in multiplat sales on the Switch which has in a lot of instances justified continued output from these multiplat game publishers.........nothing you've put forward so far has invalidated that, so its making you look just like another hater who is just struggling to give the Switch its dues despite the fact that some of what you say has some strong evidence.

Perhaps you need to frame your point more clearly.......I think that is happening anyway although it is more like you are being forced to do so.



zorg1000 on 13 August 2018
potato_hamster said:
zorg1000 said:

Im using Nintendo's official IR page.

So you're going to brush off any legit data as "moving goalposts"

Nah man you're just being irrational.

Okay. So there's titles on Wikipedia that aren't on Nintendo's IR page, clearly. Should these games not count because they aren't on Nintendo's pages? I mean it's obvious that there is an objectively correct fact here. I'm just no longer sure which one of us have come to it. I'll concede that ground to you. It doesn't really matter much anyways. My entire point was about how low of a bar people are setting, and I used the Wii U as an example of that. If that one turns out to be poor - my bad. But there are still other platforms I could have used to illustrate my point, so it doesn't really make sense to get hung up on an example when it was one of many.

And I'm not brushing off any legit data as moving goalposts. Quite the opposite. I'm saying that me brushing off those titles can be seen as "moving the goalposts" , and I can understand that. But again, I'm poking fun at how low that bar is. If you need to dip into that pool to justify a point your making, it's a pretty shaky point in my opinion.

You are the one who brought up Wii U, not me. All ive been doing is showing you how its not like Wii U at all when you said Wii U support was better in year 2 which is completely false.

My original statemet was that in general 3rd party games are selling well because support is increasing and its not just from specific types of games, games from all sorts of devs/pubs and genres are seeing increased support.

Note that im saying well, not great or amazing.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

Miyamotoo on 13 August 2018
potato_hamster said:
Miyamotoo said:

I know, but older sports games are very often have huge deals and can be bought for few bucs will new ones cost $60, and again, you comparing difrent games not same.

We dont need them, but they also gave us one big picture. Vita rececing much less games than few years ago, Wii U dont rececing any games for quite time now.

Yeah, there are few examples that generaly sell well on Nintendo platforms in any case, but we dont talking about those games, no one mentione Just Dance and Lego like examples od good sales of 3rd party games on Switch.

Why does it matter whether I'm comparing different games or not? I'm comparing similar games in the same series. If your logic is sound, games that come out with a higher install base should sell better than games with a lower install base, yet there are literally hundreds and hundreds examples of video game series where later selling games in that series sell worse on higher install bases, even well before that console's user base begins to migrate to other platforms.

So you need statements to "give you one big picture" but don't seem to recognize that a publisher that doesn't make a statement but is still putting out 2-3 Vita games in 2017 is letting their publishing make that statement for them. For what its worth, there was at least 77 Wii U games released in 2017, and at least 13 games released on Wii U this year. In fact, publisher RCMADIAX has released over 30 Wii U games, most of which were released after 2016. I suppose they must have been pretty happy with the the sales on the Wii U to release so many games on that platform over the years. That or they are sadistic and love lighting money on fire.

Because I talking about same games on same platform, that doesnt have anything with different games on different platforms, Skyrim, Fifa, NBA, Doom, Zelda, Mario...would sell more than it sold curently on Switch if install base is 30m instead of 20m, and logical all games will keep selling how install base is rising, its simply as that but you have problem accepting that.

We take all in account to have more realistic picture, yes. 2-3 games for Vita in 2017. dont change nothing. How much there were retail games from those 77 Wii U games released in 2017.!? Only 9! Because you using Wikipedia, I will do same, Switch after 17 months on market has 1275 games listed, Wii U after 5-6 years has 759 games listed, with huge difference if we actually talk about bigger 3rd party games, Wii U left almost without any in its first year while Switch 3rd party support is increasing in second year.



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potato_hamster on 13 August 2018
zorg1000 said:
potato_hamster said:

Okay. So there's titles on Wikipedia that aren't on Nintendo's IR page, clearly. Should these games not count because they aren't on Nintendo's pages? I mean it's obvious that there is an objectively correct fact here. I'm just no longer sure which one of us have come to it. I'll concede that ground to you. It doesn't really matter much anyways. My entire point was about how low of a bar people are setting, and I used the Wii U as an example of that. If that one turns out to be poor - my bad. But there are still other platforms I could have used to illustrate my point, so it doesn't really make sense to get hung up on an example when it was one of many.

And I'm not brushing off any legit data as moving goalposts. Quite the opposite. I'm saying that me brushing off those titles can be seen as "moving the goalposts" , and I can understand that. But again, I'm poking fun at how low that bar is. If you need to dip into that pool to justify a point your making, it's a pretty shaky point in my opinion.

You are the one who brought up Wii U, not me. All ive been doing is showing you how its not like Wii U at all when you said Wii U support was better in year 2 which is completely false.

My original statemet was that in general 3rd party games are selling well because support is increasing and its not just from specific types of games, games from all sorts of devs/pubs and genres are seeing increased support.

Note that im saying well, not great or amazing.

I never said it was like the Wii U. I said the bar you were setting to measure determine that third party games are selling well on the Switch can also be used to determine that third party games sold well on the Wii U. According to the numbers I got from Wikipedia, support for year two was slightly better. I'm willing to take your numbers as factual for the sake of argument, but let's not act like I just threw out some random comment without stats.

But honestly, while I wouldn't disagree with the fact that support is increasing in variety of ways, its just that's still not a very high bar for saying third party games are selling well, is it? There really should be more third party games for any console in its second year over its first. There should be an increase in more risky/niche third party titles after the first year of a consoles life. This is the bare minimum. As I replied to someone before - if someone said in the PS4's second year, the notable third party support was a dark souls remaster, a south park game, two annual sports games, warframe,  a dragonball fighter game, and a doom remake, you'd probably wonder what the fuck Sony was doing for third parties to be supporting it so poorly. Frankly - that really isn't an impressive list at all, it's just a hell of a lot better than what Nintendo fans have gotten used to over the last decade or so.



Soundwave on 13 August 2018

Of course the Switch doesn't have the greatest 3rd party support out of the gates, the Wii U and even 3DS are responsible for that, that's not the Switch's fault. Switch was always going to start at a lower point of support because of circumstances beyond the platform's control. 

What IS on the Switch is tending to sell OK-to-very good. The two notable 3rd party games the system has had as exclusive (timed or otherwise) are Octopath and Bomberman R ... both are going to be million sellers. That's not bad. FIFA is likely well past 700k, which is probably the highest FIFA in quite some while on a Nintendo system, its outsold FIFA on the PS4 in Japan. On the eShop, third party games are cleaning up, things like Rocket League, Bloodstained, Overcooked, Dead Cells, are doing great. Fortnite is doing great on the platform. Street Fighter is performing well for old ass ports, Megaman is doing really well. 

If GTAV and Call of Duty were on the system they'd be million sellers IMO, probably past 2 million if it was GTAV. That shows there's a decent market here IMO. Skyrim is likely past 500k ... for a 6 year old port, again that's not bad at all. It doesn't have to be the same size as Sony/MS, Sony/MS are toast without third parties everything has to rely on them for those platforms, Nintendo does not have the same need.



potato_hamster on 13 August 2018
duduspace1 said:
potato_hamster said:

The bar of essentially "the Switch has better third party support than some other consoles that had terrible third party support, therefore it has good third party support".

Another analogy - imagine getting the 4th lowest mark in a class of 30 people. Would you say you're doing well in that class just because you can point to a few people you did better than?

Everything in life is relative............only fanatics deal in absolutes as you seem to be doing hence insinuations that you are a fanboy or Nintendo hater are not really far off the mark.

I always go with the original post that started off a thread, the OP was very clear about what they meant in terms of what they considered "Good" Multiplat sales on the Switch. It is all well and good to dispute elements of that post but it should not become a crusade where you begin to shift goalposts and  selectively apply statistics. 

I don't think anyone (the original poster included) has so far made the claim that the Switch is currently selling some genre of multiplats as well as the PS4, the basic claim has been that there is an uptick in multiplat sales on the Switch which has in a lot of instances justified continued output from these multiplat game publishers.........nothing you've put forward so far has invalidated that, so its making you look just like another hater who is just struggling to give the Switch its dues.

What makes you think I'm dealing in absolutes? Acknowledging that the Switch is getting better third party support than other platforms yet still saying third party support isn't great isn't an absolute at all. Third party support on switch is better than terrible but still not exactly something to write home about. I don't see how this makes me a Nintendo hater.

I literally started commenting on this thread by questioning elements of that post. I also never once even insinuated that the Switch needs to have third party support as good as the PS4 or Xbox one to have "good third party support". I'm not sure why you would think that. The fact that some third party publishers continue to put out Switch games still doesn't mean that third party games are "selling well on switch", or that its getting "good third party support". That is pretty much the bare minimum of what you should expect on a games console. You should expect getting annual FIFA releases on a games console. That should be a given. It's not a sign of a system getting "good third party" support when it does, it just means it definitely isn't terrible. Understand?

... did you actually read anything I wrote?



zorg1000 on 13 August 2018
potato_hamster said:
zorg1000 said:

You are the one who brought up Wii U, not me. All ive been doing is showing you how its not like Wii U at all when you said Wii U support was better in year 2 which is completely false.

My original statemet was that in general 3rd party games are selling well because support is increasing and its not just from specific types of games, games from all sorts of devs/pubs and genres are seeing increased support.

Note that im saying well, not great or amazing.

I never said it was like the Wii U. I said the bar you were setting to measure determine that third party games are selling well on the Switch can also be used to determine that third party games sold well on the Wii U. According to the numbers I got from Wikipedia, support for year two was slightly better. I'm willing to take your numbers as factual for the sake of argument, but let's not act like I just threw out some random comment without stats.

But honestly, while I wouldn't disagree with the fact that support is increasing in variety of ways, its just that's still not a very high bar for saying third party games are selling well, is it? There really should be more third party games for any console in its second year over its first. There should be an increase in more risky/niche third party titles after the first year of a consoles life. This is the bare minimum. As I replied to someone before - if someone said in the PS4's second year, the notable third party support was a dark souls remaster, a south park game, two annual sports games, warframe,  a dragonball fighter game, and a doom remake, you'd probably wonder what the fuck Sony was doing for third parties to be supporting it so poorly. Frankly - that really isn't an impressive list at all, it's just a hell of a lot better than what Nintendo fans have gotten used to over the last decade or so.

The difference in your comparison is that 3rd party support was great from the beginning for PS4, so if that was its 2nd year support than it would mean most games didnt do too well.

Switch on the other hand had a whopping 17 retail games from March-June of last year, it had about 4 times as many in the same time frame this year.

 

Context is key, most third parties who have released Switch games are continuing to support it while more and more are announcing games for it. This is a sign that overall 3rd party games are doing well, ill repeat well not great, amazing, spectacular, etc.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

potato_hamster on 13 August 2018
zorg1000 said:
potato_hamster said:

I never said it was like the Wii U. I said the bar you were setting to measure determine that third party games are selling well on the Switch can also be used to determine that third party games sold well on the Wii U. According to the numbers I got from Wikipedia, support for year two was slightly better. I'm willing to take your numbers as factual for the sake of argument, but let's not act like I just threw out some random comment without stats.

But honestly, while I wouldn't disagree with the fact that support is increasing in variety of ways, its just that's still not a very high bar for saying third party games are selling well, is it? There really should be more third party games for any console in its second year over its first. There should be an increase in more risky/niche third party titles after the first year of a consoles life. This is the bare minimum. As I replied to someone before - if someone said in the PS4's second year, the notable third party support was a dark souls remaster, a south park game, two annual sports games, warframe,  a dragonball fighter game, and a doom remake, you'd probably wonder what the fuck Sony was doing for third parties to be supporting it so poorly. Frankly - that really isn't an impressive list at all, it's just a hell of a lot better than what Nintendo fans have gotten used to over the last decade or so.

The difference in your comparison is that 3rd party support was great from the beginning for PS4, so if that was its 2nd year support than it would mean most games didnt do too well.

Switch on the other hand had a whopping 17 retail games from March-June of last year, it had about 4 times as many in the same time frame this year.

 

Context is key, most third parties who have released Switch games are continuing to support it while more and more are announcing games for it. This is a sign that overall 3rd party games are doing well, ill repeat well not great, amazing, spectacular, etc.

Personally I think context is less important than you're making it out to be. There's a difference between "good third party support" and "good third party support for a Nintendo console", I think you're more focused on the "for a Nintendo console" part, whereas I'm putting them all on the same playing field.

Honestly, when it all boils down to it, I think the only thing separating us is how we're defining "well".