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Forums - Politics Discussion - So Canada VS Saudi Arabia...

contestgamer said:
Alara317 said:

What are you even on about? this has nothing to do with 'western interference in the middle east'. This thread, and my comments in it, have always been about how terribly Saudi Arabia treats women (and gays, but mostly women) due to an interaction where they jailed a Canadian woman who was advocating women's rights and Canada said they didn't like that much and that they 'strongly urge' Saudi officials to let them go. Canada never had any intention of getting involved in a war, instigating armed conflict, or even threatening; that's just not what Canada does. 

THAT SAID, I do think Saudi Arabia is in the wrong, less about them getting mad at Canadian officials for telling them off and more for being a shit nation with a shit history of shitty treatment of women. Their tantrum just made them look even less mature and more backwards than they did before. 

I even said in another post that I didn't wish for violence, but that something needed to be done about their shitty policies and human rights violations, specifically wishing that they just cut out the barbaric shit they have perpetuated through sheer pressure from every first world country. Violence is not the answer, That's both my stance and Canada's, but that doesn't mean action can't be taken to positively impact change, and last I checked Canada's interference in Middle Eastern politics has been that of an ally or peacekeeper, not an aggressor shooting schools or bombing busses...like Saudi Arabia supposedly did to the students of a neighbouring nation. (I have to check the research on that one but I've heard it spoken multiple times from sources I trust independant of one another.) 

Stop trying to muddle the issue, move the goalposts, or otherwise switch the topic to justify your points. I repeat, this makes you come across as heartless and in many ways ignorant.

How about you stay out of SA's business and let them conduct their culture and country as they see fit? 

Why don't you let me beat my children? It's none of your business what happens in my house, so why would you want to get involved? 

Same basic idea. There are certain things that should be inalienable rights across the globe. That's why the UN has said there are basic human rights to consider, and why there are certain international laws/guidelines that people should obey. I'm all for letting a nation do what they want, as long as it isn't infringing upon the rights of its people. 

Are you all for capital punishment for being gay in some nations? do you believe that a nation should have every right to execute people for their sexuality? do you believe that the North shouldn't have intervened when the south was enslaving blacks? Do you think women should continue to be seen as second rate citizens? I sure as hell hope not. 

The reality is simple: There are injustices in this world and the world will only get better if people are willing to take effort to make changes. If that means calling out a nation on its shitty treatement of women and hoping the global pressure to have them evolve beyond the fucking stone age, then so be it. I'd prefer to avoid violence, but considering how resistant to change people are in Saudi Arabia I fear that the only way they'll be willing to change is through violent means. Until then, I support any nation's right to tell them off. (And hilariously, Canada probably has a significantly better military than Saudi Arabia, too. Better training, better equipment, a higher population, etc; we're just not shitty people overall and prefer to use our big boy words and appeals to peace before firepower, so Canada will never ever drop a bomb on the middle east.) 

Like, holy shit, though; how callous do you have to be to honestly feel that 'stay out of it, let them subjugate women' is an appropriate response. You and I, we're on such fundamentally different levels that I honestly feel that continuing to communicate with you on any level will just raise my blood pressure higher than I'd like to tolerate. 

I'm gonna go outside on my own without the help of a man, now. Because canada isn't a goddamn caveman nation and we actually have equal rights for women. We're also one of the first nations to make Gay Marriage legal, so maybe I'll go fuck another woman, too. You know, Scissor me timbers and have her fist my pussy or something else equally lewd, becuase I live in a nation where we as a people agreed to actually be decent to one another and not make laws to kill one another over who we want to make love to. 

Oh, right, everyone thinks I'm a man becuase I put 'male' in my bio to stave off creeps. (Seriously, the internet is STILL not a good place for people with vaginas, especially with folks like you going around saying that it's okay to let places in the middle east treat my kind like shit. Thanks!) 



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Alara317 said:
contestgamer said:

How about you stay out of SA's business and let them conduct their culture and country as they see fit? 

Why don't you let me beat my children? It's none of your business what happens in my house, so why would you want to get involved? 

Same basic idea. There are certain things that should be inalienable rights across the globe. That's why the UN has said there are basic human rights to consider, and why there are certain international laws/guidelines that people should obey. I'm all for letting a nation do what they want, as long as it isn't infringing upon the rights of its people. 

Are you all for capital punishment for being gay in some nations? do you believe that a nation should have every right to execute people for their sexuality? do you believe that the North shouldn't have intervened when the south was enslaving blacks? Do you think women should continue to be seen as second rate citizens? I sure as hell hope not. 

The reality is simple: There are injustices in this world and the world will only get better if people are willing to take effort to make changes. If that means calling out a nation on its shitty treatement of women and hoping the global pressure to have them evolve beyond the fucking stone age, then so be it. I'd prefer to avoid violence, but considering how resistant to change people are in Saudi Arabia I fear that the only way they'll be willing to change is through violent means. Until then, I support any nation's right to tell them off. (And hilariously, Canada probably has a significantly better military than Saudi Arabia, too. Better training, better equipment, a higher population, etc; we're just not shitty people overall and prefer to use our big boy words and appeals to peace before firepower, so Canada will never ever drop a bomb on the middle east.) 

Like, holy shit, though; how callous do you have to be to honestly feel that 'stay out of it, let them subjugate women' is an appropriate response. You and I, we're on such fundamentally different levels that I honestly feel that continuing to communicate with you on any level will just raise my blood pressure higher than I'd like to tolerate. 

I'm gonna go outside on my own without the help of a man, now. Because canada isn't a goddamn caveman nation and we actually have equal rights for women. We're also one of the first nations to make Gay Marriage legal, so maybe I'll go fuck another woman, too. You know, Scissor me timbers and have her fist my pussy or something else equally lewd, becuase I live in a nation where we as a people agreed to actually be decent to one another and not make laws to kill one another over who we want to make love to. 

Oh, right, everyone thinks I'm a man becuase I put 'male' in my bio to stave off creeps. (Seriously, the internet is STILL not a good place for people with vaginas, especially with folks like you going around saying that it's okay to let places in the middle east treat my kind like shit. Thanks!) 

Why are you bringing up your sex in the conversation? I don’t think anyone here cares whether you’re male or female.



Lawlight said:

Why are you bringing up your sex in the conversation? I don’t think anyone here cares whether you’re male or female.

Because I find it appalling that there are people out there who feel that women don't deserve basic dignity, just like how gay folk might use their sexuality as a way to relate to an oppressed people. Seems almost like a personal attack when people act like it's just okay to let Saudi Arabia treat women the way they do. That is all.



Alara317 said:
Lawlight said:

Why are you bringing up your sex in the conversation? I don’t think anyone here cares whether you’re male or female.

Because I find it appalling that there are people out there who feel that women don't deserve basic dignity, just like how gay folk might use their sexuality as a way to relate to an oppressed people. Seems almost like a personal attack when people act like it's just okay to let Saudi Arabia treat women the way they do. That is all.

I don’t think that he said that he personally agrees with discrimination. He was saying that people should let those countries do their own thing, not that what they’re doing is right. Islam has yet to undergo modernisation. Short of a crusade, that will not happen within our lifetime. Saudi Arabia needs to undergo its own revolution and get rid of the theocratic government.



Alara317 said:
Lawlight said:

Why are you bringing up your sex in the conversation? I don’t think anyone here cares whether you’re male or female.

Because I find it appalling that there are people out there who feel that women don't deserve basic dignity, just like how gay folk might use their sexuality as a way to relate to an oppressed people. Seems almost like a personal attack when people act like it's just okay to let Saudi Arabia treat women the way they do. That is all.

Actually I do prefer that people have basic dignity - in my own country. See I'd much rather live here in the west than in the middle east, with many of the reasons being for that the ones you listed. However I'm against western nations imposing my ideals and preferences on other nations. These countries have oppressed women and gays for thousands of years in some cases, hundreds in most. Heck beating your kids, having child labor and women being second class citizens was the way of the land here in the US until just recently. We changed it, not because some outside country forced us but because as a culture we decided to. 

I'm for every country making decisions for themselves. If a country doesnt want to let women drive thats their business. If countries cant make their own decisions then why even have them? Those decisions dont only include taxes, language and social programs. They include all aspects of culture. From their point of view we're the decadent, fallen society, and from our POV they're the backwards culture. See I don't like to pretend that my POV is the correct one and impose it on others. Virtue signalling is attractive, but people forget that virtues and vices vary from culture to culture and person to person. You seem to think that your way is the only way, and you're going to shove it down everyone elses throat. You're all about tolerance, but ironically you have an incapability of seeing anyone else's POV. The fact that you get so angry over a random forum discussion speaks to that. I'm not making any laws or curtailing your freedoms. I'm expressing a contrary view point and that's setting you off.

If SA wants to execute people and not let women drive that's their business. I wouldn't tolerate that here in the US, but that's why I'm not moving to SA any time soon. And just like I wouldnt tolerate that kind of culture in my country, so wouldn't SA tolerate our own culture in their own country. It's pretty simple.



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contestgamer said:
Alara317 said:

Because I find it appalling that there are people out there who feel that women don't deserve basic dignity, just like how gay folk might use their sexuality as a way to relate to an oppressed people. Seems almost like a personal attack when people act like it's just okay to let Saudi Arabia treat women the way they do. That is all.

Actually I do prefer that people have basic dignity - in my own country. See I'd much rather live here in the west than in the middle east, with many of the reasons being for that the ones you listed. However I'm against western nations imposing my ideals and preferences on other nations. These countries have oppressed women and gays for thousands of years in some cases, hundreds in most. Heck beating your kids, having child labor and women being second class citizens was the way of the land here in the US until just recently. We changed it, not because some outside country forced us but because as a culture we decided to. 

I'm for every country making decisions for themselves. If a country doesnt want to let women drive thats their business. If countries cant make their own decisions then why even have them? Those decisions dont only include taxes, language and social programs. They include all aspects of culture. From their point of view we're the decadent, fallen society, and from our POV they're the backwards culture. See I don't like to pretend that my POV is the correct one and impose it on others. Virtue signalling is attractive, but people forget that virtues and vices vary from culture to culture and person to person. You seem to think that your way is the only way, and you're going to shove it down everyone elses throat. You're all about tolerance, but ironically you have an incapability of seeing anyone else's POV. The fact that you get so angry over a random forum discussion speaks to that. I'm not making any laws or curtailing your freedoms. I'm expressing a contrary view point and that's setting you off.

If SA wants to execute people and not let women drive that's their business. I wouldn't tolerate that here in the US, but that's why I'm not moving to SA any time soon. And just like I wouldnt tolerate that kind of culture in my country, so wouldn't SA tolerate our own culture in their own country. It's pretty simple.

Yep, I'm tapping out here. You clearly lack basic human empathy or compassion so my appeals to your decency are and will always be lost. I have nothing more to say and I hope you one day grow a heart. 



Alara317 said:
contestgamer said:

Actually I do prefer that people have basic dignity - in my own country. See I'd much rather live here in the west than in the middle east, with many of the reasons being for that the ones you listed. However I'm against western nations imposing my ideals and preferences on other nations. These countries have oppressed women and gays for thousands of years in some cases, hundreds in most. Heck beating your kids, having child labor and women being second class citizens was the way of the land here in the US until just recently. We changed it, not because some outside country forced us but because as a culture we decided to. 

I'm for every country making decisions for themselves. If a country doesnt want to let women drive thats their business. If countries cant make their own decisions then why even have them? Those decisions dont only include taxes, language and social programs. They include all aspects of culture. From their point of view we're the decadent, fallen society, and from our POV they're the backwards culture. See I don't like to pretend that my POV is the correct one and impose it on others. Virtue signalling is attractive, but people forget that virtues and vices vary from culture to culture and person to person. You seem to think that your way is the only way, and you're going to shove it down everyone elses throat. You're all about tolerance, but ironically you have an incapability of seeing anyone else's POV. The fact that you get so angry over a random forum discussion speaks to that. I'm not making any laws or curtailing your freedoms. I'm expressing a contrary view point and that's setting you off.

If SA wants to execute people and not let women drive that's their business. I wouldn't tolerate that here in the US, but that's why I'm not moving to SA any time soon. And just like I wouldnt tolerate that kind of culture in my country, so wouldn't SA tolerate our own culture in their own country. It's pretty simple.

Yep, I'm tapping out here. You clearly lack basic human empathy or compassion so my appeals to your decency are and will always be lost. I have nothing more to say and I hope you one day grow a heart. 

That is because it is pointless to cry wolf in the twitter. If Canada really wants to change SA they better be prepared and mean it.



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Alara317 said:
contestgamer said:

Actually I do prefer that people have basic dignity - in my own country. See I'd much rather live here in the west than in the middle east, with many of the reasons being for that the ones you listed. However I'm against western nations imposing my ideals and preferences on other nations. These countries have oppressed women and gays for thousands of years in some cases, hundreds in most. Heck beating your kids, having child labor and women being second class citizens was the way of the land here in the US until just recently. We changed it, not because some outside country forced us but because as a culture we decided to. 

I'm for every country making decisions for themselves. If a country doesnt want to let women drive thats their business. If countries cant make their own decisions then why even have them? Those decisions dont only include taxes, language and social programs. They include all aspects of culture. From their point of view we're the decadent, fallen society, and from our POV they're the backwards culture. See I don't like to pretend that my POV is the correct one and impose it on others. Virtue signalling is attractive, but people forget that virtues and vices vary from culture to culture and person to person. You seem to think that your way is the only way, and you're going to shove it down everyone elses throat. You're all about tolerance, but ironically you have an incapability of seeing anyone else's POV. The fact that you get so angry over a random forum discussion speaks to that. I'm not making any laws or curtailing your freedoms. I'm expressing a contrary view point and that's setting you off.

If SA wants to execute people and not let women drive that's their business. I wouldn't tolerate that here in the US, but that's why I'm not moving to SA any time soon. And just like I wouldnt tolerate that kind of culture in my country, so wouldn't SA tolerate our own culture in their own country. It's pretty simple.

Yep, I'm tapping out here. You clearly lack basic human empathy or compassion so my appeals to your decency are and will always be lost. I have nothing more to say and I hope you one day grow a heart. 

So how are the feelings in your heart helping the people in Saudi Arabia?



Alara317 said:

Yep, I'm tapping out here. You clearly lack basic human empathy or compassion so my appeals to your decency are and will always be lost. I have nothing more to say and I hope you one day grow a heart. 

Instead of being so naive to the entire world why don't you and your trigger-happy SJW buddies in Canada demand regime change in Saudi Arabia by going to war with them, eh ?  

Maybe, just then Canada can actually start being a real player by enforcing the damn human rights that you so much believe in the foolish ideology that JT along with his cronies "uphold" who are currently a bunch of pathetic and spineless gangsters so far that can't put their money where their mouth's are ...  

JT and his administration is the biggest foreign policy disgrace from North America since dubya but here we are now where we see a bunch of people in this thread trying to rally support behind his cause rather than being balked at his incompetence for failing to protect peace ?!

When Trump tries to strong-arm North Korea which is a far more oppressive regime to rightly protect it's US ally (South Korea) he get's criticized but when Trudeau attempts to strong-arm Saudi Arabia into releasing a women that DOESN'T EVEN HAVE CANADIAN CITIZENSHIP it's somehow met without much opposition around here ?! No wonder liberal foreign policy isn't taken all that seriously on an international stage aside from times of war or conflict. It's an embarrassment that an often times boob like Trump is smarter at diplomacy than Trudeau who will be remembered as a shit stain to our great nation's historical peaceful track record ... (in case you didn't realize regime change and ideology doesn't equate to a recipe for diplomacy) 

Since no other sovereign nation sympathizes with Canada's cause in this case aside from a few delusional individual European politicians, I'll be waiting for liberals to call out on Canada's BS with their current foreign policy or more specifically Trudeau's ... 



Alara317 said:
contestgamer said:

Actually I do prefer that people have basic dignity - in my own country. See I'd much rather live here in the west than in the middle east, with many of the reasons being for that the ones you listed. However I'm against western nations imposing my ideals and preferences on other nations. These countries have oppressed women and gays for thousands of years in some cases, hundreds in most. Heck beating your kids, having child labor and women being second class citizens was the way of the land here in the US until just recently. We changed it, not because some outside country forced us but because as a culture we decided to. 

I'm for every country making decisions for themselves. If a country doesnt want to let women drive thats their business. If countries cant make their own decisions then why even have them? Those decisions dont only include taxes, language and social programs. They include all aspects of culture. From their point of view we're the decadent, fallen society, and from our POV they're the backwards culture. See I don't like to pretend that my POV is the correct one and impose it on others. Virtue signalling is attractive, but people forget that virtues and vices vary from culture to culture and person to person. You seem to think that your way is the only way, and you're going to shove it down everyone elses throat. You're all about tolerance, but ironically you have an incapability of seeing anyone else's POV. The fact that you get so angry over a random forum discussion speaks to that. I'm not making any laws or curtailing your freedoms. I'm expressing a contrary view point and that's setting you off.

If SA wants to execute people and not let women drive that's their business. I wouldn't tolerate that here in the US, but that's why I'm not moving to SA any time soon. And just like I wouldnt tolerate that kind of culture in my country, so wouldn't SA tolerate our own culture in their own country. It's pretty simple.

Yep, I'm tapping out here. You clearly lack basic human empathy or compassion so my appeals to your decency are and will always be lost. I have nothing more to say and I hope you one day grow a heart. 

See your assumption is that everyone around the world wants the same things - that what you like everyone else also must like. You know we went through 99% of human history without the ability to drive (for lack of cars and wheels), women being relegated to "supporting roles", children working, etc and we came out alright as a species. I personally know women that dislike the results of the feminists movement, and feel that they would be happier in a society with gender roles akin to the 40's and 50s. As a a more career oriented woman I MUCH prefer the current norms. However unlike you, I dont feel that I must enforce my preferences on everyone else. Some cultures might collectively decide that they want to go a different way - perhaps they want more traditional gender roles. Perhaps they feel that children can work on their farm from age 10 and on. So and so so forth. What business is it of yours to tell them what they can and cant agree on as a culture? You call yourself a progressive, but you behave as an imperialist/authoritarian. You want to enforce your ideals on the entirety of the human race and anyone that disagrees with you is not worth of discussion.