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Koch Brothers own study says that Universal Healthcare is cheaper than current US system

Forums - Politics Discussion - Koch Brothers own study says that Universal Healthcare is cheaper than current US system

Aeolus451 said:
CosmicSex said:

The government has the ability to impose price control and it already does to a very great extent with Medicare.  There is no reason why we can't do it here.  There is no reason why we can't lower costs.  There is no reason why we can cut waste.  Europe isn't evil you know.  They do it to take care of their people.  There is always some motive with the folks who don't want people to get care or to save money.  That is the real evil holding us back.  Some people, especially conservatives in the US are programmed by politicians to think a certain way and its alarming how fast they bow down to them.   Liberals have similar issues but Conservatives have mastered the ability to get their followers to fight against their own self interest tooth and nail.   Libs aren't quite there yet. 

You're assuming that UHC is the absolute best way to go at any cost. That's still up in the air. So what if Americans don't buy into it? I never said anything about the EU being evil. It is on an authoritarian kick though and it has problems of its own. The only thing the US should adopt from there is the metric system, they can keep the rest. I'm not okay with paying alot higher taxes and ruining our advancement in med for something I rarely ever use. We already have a system we like and that works.

You believe we have a system that works but wait until you have to have a procedure where your insurance company will not pay for it and them come back and see how much you like it.  Things always look great as long as nothing bad ever happens to you.



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Apparently some people here think Canada is way behind the US in health care services.



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Aeolus451 said:
CosmicSex said:

The government has the ability to impose price control and it already does to a very great extent with Medicare.  There is no reason why we can't do it here.  There is no reason why we can't lower costs.  There is no reason why we can cut waste.  Europe isn't evil you know.  They do it to take care of their people.  There is always some motive with the folks who don't want people to get care or to save money.  That is the real evil holding us back.  Some people, especially conservatives in the US are programmed by politicians to think a certain way and its alarming how fast they bow down to them.   Liberals have similar issues but Conservatives have mastered the ability to get their followers to fight against their own self interest tooth and nail.   Libs aren't quite there yet. 

You're assuming that UHC is the absolute best way to go at any cost. That's still up in the air. So what if Americans don't buy into it? I never said anything about the EU being evil. It is on an authoritarian kick though and it has problems of its own. The only thing the US should adopt from there is the metric system, they can keep the rest. I'm not okay with paying alot higher taxes and ruining our advancement in med for something I rarely ever use. We already have a system we like and that works.

I would like to think that if you knew that I was personally effected by this that you would at least reconsider your stance.  Cost here in the states are preventing me from getting care that I need. I have insurance and a relatively good job.  And still my out of pocket is too high. With a program like UHC, I wouldn't be in pain now. 

The vast majority of countries in the world either have free health care or universal health care.  I will be damned if I let you trick me into thinking that my suffering is 'better' when the care I need is avaliable abroad.  Your perspective is creeping me out.  You make it about what you need right now without having the ability to see the bigger picture.   If you needed Health Care and couldn't afford it, would you then have a change of heart?

But I think the tides are turning and I will prove it by making you a promise.  In 20 years, if something should happen and you need medical care, you will get it here in the US without having to worry about costs because will will not stop fighting for you and each other.  UHC will be law mark my words.  People will look around and say "you know what we can do better and our neighbors are showing us a method that we might be able to make work for us".  We will continue to drive medical advancements and you will be able to afford it because the comparison you made is just a logical fallacy and not intrinsic to some threat presented by access to care. 

I would save you without a second thought. 



Aeolus451 said:
CosmicSex said:

The government has the ability to impose price control and it already does to a very great extent with Medicare.  There is no reason why we can't do it here.  There is no reason why we can't lower costs.  There is no reason why we can cut waste.  Europe isn't evil you know.  They do it to take care of their people.  There is always some motive with the folks who don't want people to get care or to save money.  That is the real evil holding us back.  Some people, especially conservatives in the US are programmed by politicians to think a certain way and its alarming how fast they bow down to them.   Liberals have similar issues but Conservatives have mastered the ability to get their followers to fight against their own self interest tooth and nail.   Libs aren't quite there yet. 

You're assuming that UHC is the absolute best way to go at any cost. That's still up in the air. So what if Americans don't buy into it? I never said anything about the EU being evil. It is on an authoritarian kick though and it has problems of its own. The only thing the US should adopt from there is the metric system, they can keep the rest. I'm not okay with paying alot higher taxes and ruining our advancement in med for something I rarely ever use. We already have a system we like andt att workss

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I have no problem with universal health care, but the true enemy right now is the cost of health care. They are not the same issue, and the gov't can't just "fix" it by using cost control methods. If the plan that is mentioned in this article when into effect we'd be back in the Depression.



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Cueil said:
darkenergy said:
Single payer NOW!!!

If the USA can afford $700 billion on military spending (which btw needs to be cut in half) then it can afford this as well.

I'm sick and tired of hearing this... you know who is no 2 and 3 in military power... Russia and China... you want to see over power to either of those nations?

Even if we would cut our military spending by half we would still spend more on military spending then Russia and China combined.  The US spends more on the military then the next eight countries combined.   



epicurean said:
If the plan that is mentioned in this article when into effect we'd be back in the Depression.

You didn't read the report or any report by the looks of it, it actually cheaper

"Saving of over $2 trillion from what the United States as a whole would spend under the existing system."

 


Last edited by Rab - on 01 August 2018

Keep in mind that it would save Americans money, but you would still have to pay higher taxes as the gov is spending extra. I actually agree in the idea for universal healthcare, and honestly the US spends FAR too much money on its military, but I'm just stating facts. Cut spending to 300 billion, use 100 billion for Nasa (cause space is cool and shit), and use the rest towards this. Taxes would have to be increased, but over time Americans would realize they would save a shitload of money they normally use on insurance. Top that with an increased lifespan which leads to greater productivity and happier people, and that means the economy is better over time. 



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Aeolus451 said:

You're assuming that UHC is the absolute best way to go at any cost. That's still up in the air. So what if Americans don't buy into it? I never said anything about the EU being evil. It is on an authoritarian kick though and it has problems of its own. The only thing the US should adopt from there is the metric system, they can keep the rest. I'm not okay with paying alot higher taxes and ruining our advancement in med for something I rarely ever use. We already have a system we like and that works.

Other countries have much better and cheaper health care and its UHC, that´s not still up in the air. USA is lagging behind and feeding large medical/pharmaceutical companies. There is no excuse its just plain stupidity. Even rich people should want UHC, because it would also make USA safer and they could also pay less.

Defending the current health care system (in USA) is like saying the earth is flat, some still do it and its laughable and kind of sad.



Ka-pi96 said:
It always make me laugh how against healthcare Americans are. I can't help but wonder if it's just a stubbornness thing, like they just aren't willing to admit that other countries do something better than them

Of course that's the biggest issue: Americans are unwilling to admit that someone else does something better.

I mean, come on. They don't use the metric system and they call a sport that is played with the hands "football". If Europe were as backwards as the USA, we'd call football "handball" because of throw-ins.



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