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Koch Brothers own study says that Universal Healthcare is cheaper than current US system

Forums - Politics Discussion - Koch Brothers own study says that Universal Healthcare is cheaper than current US system

 



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Hiku said:


She thinks it's terrifying to consider... that our children deserve healthcare and education...

It's astonishing to anyone who has lived outside of the US for a few years that someone would think like this. But to them, this is normal.

Wow, that's actually crazy.

Although to be fair that would have been a normal thought for people in Europe too.... during the medieval/dark ages

Last edited by Ka-pi96 - on 01 August 2018

Bet Shiken that COD would outsell Battlefield in 2018. http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8749702

numberwang said:

Extended welfare systems and open borders to third world countries don't work in combination - Europe is learning the hard way.

did you find this sentence in your great book of populist bullshit?

two facts for you:

1. countries within the EU never had open borders to countries outside the EU except Swiss and Norway.

2. Refugees and immigrants do not get automatic access to our UHS's. for sure they get some medical treatment if they get ill, we won't let them die, but nowhere near the same than those who pay into the system. I'm sure it's similar in the US.



Ka-pi96 said:
Hiku said:


She thinks it's terrifying to consider... that our children deserve healthcare and education...

It's astonishing to anyone who has lived outside of the US for a few years that someone would think like this. But to them, this is normal.

Wow, that's actually crazy.

Although to be fair that would have been a normal thought for people in Europe too.... during the medieval/dark ages

It was the same thing for public elementary schooling. Originally only the rich were able to send their kids to school.
Until people stood up for themselves and said "our kids deserve an education as well. It's our tax money and this is something we strongly believe in."

That same thing happened for healthcare in every modern nation on the planet. Except in the US. Even though the majority of the population, in poll after poll, do want universal healthcare.
But when so many lawmakers take large corporate donations, they're more likely to vote in favor of those corporations than their constituents.

Btw, I'm working on a novel that's truly terrifying. Steven King has nothing on this story.
It's not about ghosts or murderers. It's about children.... who deserve healthcare!
It's so scary, it'll shoot to the No 1 bestseller spot in no time.

Last edited by Hiku - on 01 August 2018

When Americans hear the word universal healthcare, they think socialism. Socialism was made and still is made out to be a very bad thing in America. Why should I pay into something everyone benefit from when I can pay into my own. Of course this mindset is gear into believing that you will never find yourself in a situation where you do not have insurance, come down with serious injuries, lose your job etc. Republicans has always lobbied against safety nets type of social services because they help out the poor and as Americans we cannot have that. So yes, you will see arguments talking about how great our healthcare system is but forget that its get for the wealthy. They will not know how much their insurance will cover when they encounter a serious injury, disease or life altering medical condition until they are in the hospital and their insurance company turns down a procedure because its too expensive.

The thing is, Healthcare is such a big margin high profit business in the US, I am not sure if the US will ever have such a system. Money is what moves Americans and right now Healthcare is big money.



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Cheaper for who? Everyone as a whole? Sure. Is it cheaper than it was when I was in my 20's lifting and eating healthy 5 days a week and had absolutely no need or want for health insurance. I've used my health insurance once in the past 14 years it's unnecessary and I have no need for it. If I'm going to be forced to have it then at the very least we need to make exceptions for people who want to eat as much as they want and have absolutely no care in the world for their own health. I refuse to be part of a system where I'm having to pay to take care of obese people with no self control or smokers. Obesity a lone already puts a heavy burden on are healthcare system and it's not getting better.



method114 said:
Cheaper for who? Everyone as a whole? Sure. Is it cheaper than it was when I was in my 20's lifting and eating healthy 5 days a week and had absolutely no need or want for health insurance. I've used my health insurance once in the past 14 years it's unnecessary and I have no need for it. If I'm going to be forced to have it then at the very least we need to make exceptions for people who want to eat as much as they want and have absolutely no care in the world for their own health. I refuse to be part of a system where I'm having to pay to take care of obese people with no self control or smokers. Obesity a lone already puts a heavy burden on are healthcare system and it's not getting better.

You're a car accident away from looking at this from a whole different perspective.  Healthcare isn't just about taking care of yourself.  What if you get cancer?  Hell, a snake bite ($153,000).  Healthy people are not immune to accidents, diseases, and other medical conditions.



Massimus - "Trump already has democrat support."

Aeolus451 said:
vivster said:

All I'm reading in this thread is about higher cost for the government. Let's assume for a moment the US is not able to have a long term plan for UHC that's cheaper than the current system. So it's gonna be a bit more expensive. Wouldn't it be alright to increase the cost of a system if that means overall higher coverage?

It's not a bit more expensive. Blahous mentioned in this report that it would cost the government at least 32 trillion extra and it would cost at least 6 trillion more overall. He said those are low ball figures and they are likely higher. No especially since it would stifle our advancement of meds, tech and medical procedures. It wouldn't end up as a net positive for everyone. In the current system, taxes are low for everyone and anyone just pays for whatever healthcare they want with no rationing. 

The government has the ability to impose price control and it already does to a very great extent with Medicare.  There is no reason why we can't do it here.  There is no reason why we can't lower costs.  There is no reason why we can cut waste.  Europe isn't evil you know.  They do it to take care of their people.  There is always some motive with the folks who don't want people to get care or to save money.  That is the real evil holding us back.  Some people, especially conservatives in the US are programmed by politicians to think a certain way and its alarming how fast they bow down to them.   Liberals have similar issues but Conservatives have mastered the ability to get their followers to fight against their own self interest tooth and nail.   Libs aren't quite there yet. 



CosmicSex said:
Aeolus451 said:

It's not a bit more expensive. Blahous mentioned in this report that it would cost the government at least 32 trillion extra and it would cost at least 6 trillion more overall. He said those are low ball figures and they are likely higher. No especially since it would stifle our advancement of meds, tech and medical procedures. It wouldn't end up as a net positive for everyone. In the current system, taxes are low for everyone and anyone just pays for whatever healthcare they want with no rationing. 

The government has the ability to impose price control and it already does to a very great extent with Medicare.  There is no reason why we can't do it here.  There is no reason why we can't lower costs.  There is no reason why we can cut waste.  Europe isn't evil you know.  They do it to take care of their people.  There is always some motive with the folks who don't want people to get care or to save money.  That is the real evil holding us back.  Some people, especially conservatives in the US are programmed by politicians to think a certain way and its alarming how fast they bow down to them.   Liberals have similar issues but Conservatives have mastered the ability to get their followers to fight against their own self interest tooth and nail.   Libs aren't quite there yet. 

You're assuming that UHC is the absolute best way to go at any cost. That's still up in the air. So what if Americans don't buy into it? I never said anything about the EU being evil. It is on an authoritarian kick though and it has problems of its own. The only thing the US should adopt from there is the metric system, they can keep the rest. I'm not okay with paying alot higher taxes and ruining our advancement in med for something I rarely ever use. We already have a system we like and that works.



method114 said:
Cheaper for who? Everyone as a whole? Sure. Is it cheaper than it was when I was in my 20's lifting and eating healthy 5 days a week and had absolutely no need or want for health insurance. I've used my health insurance once in the past 14 years it's unnecessary and I have no need for it. If I'm going to be forced to have it then at the very least we need to make exceptions for people who want to eat as much as they want and have absolutely no care in the world for their own health. I refuse to be part of a system where I'm having to pay to take care of obese people with no self control or smokers. Obesity a lone already puts a heavy burden on are healthcare system and it's not getting better.

Yeah, I use to be like you.  I never had to go to the hospital in over 30 years but when you do and do not have insurance, you get a rude awakening. I had a friend who was in his 20's and he also lifted weights and ate healthy.  One day he tore some ligament in his pectoral muscle and he did not have insurance at the time or another friend who blew out his knee playing soccer or another one who blew out her ankle when she fell on black ice.  Yep, if you live a charmed life, you never have to worry about those injuries coming out of nowhere and having over 50K or more in medical bills to pay.  The young always feel like there are indestructible until they get destroyed, they come down with an injury, develop a life changing disease or find themselves out of a job.  Another friend of mine who is one of the healthiest person I know came down with Crohn's disease.  His medication cost something like 5k a month and let's not talk about what happens during a outbreak.