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Koch Brothers own study says that Universal Healthcare is cheaper than current US system

Forums - Politics Discussion - Koch Brothers own study says that Universal Healthcare is cheaper than current US system

Rab said:

 

M8, facts don't work on stupid thick-skull Murican's :P

Universal healthcare costs alot yes, but EVERYONE payes for it so it is not that bad in the end. i'm living in sweden and we pay a shit-ton of taxes so that everyone can have some kind of safety.. and that is something worth paying for imo.

but that would never work in the US, too scared to be kind to the collective country, it is states, them & us mentality all the way in that country. the fractured states of america



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Aeolus451 said:
Rab said:

Just for comparative cost, US is virtually the only country without a Universal Healthcare System (UHS), almost every study that takes in the full complexity of the real costs shows that there is savings to be gained when using a UHS

That's false. The costs would go up.

All I'm reading in this thread is about higher cost for the government. Let's assume for a moment the US is not able to have a long term plan for UHC that's cheaper than the current system. So it's gonna be a bit more expensive. Wouldn't it be alright to increase the cost of a system if that means overall higher coverage?



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Ideological opposition to empirical evidence reflects poorly on Conservatism. It's sad that West Korean Conservatives reject a proven cost-effective system of superior care in favor of a high-priced inferior service, but it is positively hilarious that they are too proud of their Socialized military to advocate a privatized army. Surely the Free Market would produce a more capable, more robust armed forces than the freedom-crushing tax dollar. No? Didn't think so.



Extended welfare systems and open borders to third world countries don't work in combination - Europe is learning the hard way.



From what I read, even if we doubled the corporate and personal tax rate, we still wouldn't be able to cover the Bernie plan. I'm just not sure how we afford any of this without driving the wealthy out of America.



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Ka-pi96 said:
It always make me laugh how against healthcare Americans are. I can't help but wonder if it's just a stubbornness thing, like they just aren't willing to admit that other countries do something better than them

The thing is, Americans do not think about healthcare until they need to use it.  The mentality for the young is why should I pay into this system when I am healthy.  They never look at the worst case scenario where they could get injured and find themselves paying huge medical cost or come down with Diabetes, Crohn's disease or some other life altering medical issue.  They never think they could be fired or laid off from a job and suddenly find themselves without health insurance hoping nothing goes wrong while they are between jobs.

In America, Healthcare is a huge business and the profit margins are off the charts.  This is one main reason why the people who stand to make the most money will definitely make sure nothing comes into play that could regulate it.



fatslob-:O said:
Ka-pi96 said:
It always make me laugh how against healthcare Americans are. I can't help but wonder if it's just a stubbornness thing, like they just aren't willing to admit that other countries do something better than them

How are Americans against healthcare ? That's just a misconception ... 

"Better" is totally arguable when America leads in cancer care, having more specialists, higher standard medical practice (malpractice/defensive medicine are real issues with physicians the US), medical equipment or diagnostic tools and FDA regulations are absolutely stringent (it is the gold standard among all regulatory public health bodies for drug and medical device approvals) compared to the rest of the world ... 

Most important of all is that Americans are willing to pay for quality rather than quantity as seen through their investment for private care ... (5 of the top 10 leading pharmaceutical companies are American so they are also leading investors in advanced biotechnology) 

Have you ever been to any of those countries?  Because you gave a misconception while trying to claim something else is a misconception.



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vivster said:
Aeolus451 said:

That's false. The costs would go up.

All I'm reading in this thread is about higher cost for the government. Let's assume for a moment the US is not able to have a long term plan for UHC that's cheaper than the current system. So it's gonna be a bit more expensive. Wouldn't it be alright to increase the cost of a system if that means overall higher coverage?

It's not a bit more expensive. Blahous mentioned in this report that it would cost the government at least 32 trillion extra and it would cost at least 6 trillion more overall. He said those are low ball figures and they are likely higher. No especially since it would stifle our advancement of meds, tech and medical procedures. It wouldn't end up as a net positive for everyone. In the current system, taxes are low for everyone and anyone just pays for whatever healthcare they want with no rationing. 



fatslob-:O said:
Ka-pi96 said:
It always make me laugh how against healthcare Americans are. I can't help but wonder if it's just a stubbornness thing, like they just aren't willing to admit that other countries do something better than them

How are Americans against healthcare ? That's just a misconception ... 

"Better" is totally arguable when -Snip-

Better is not arguable imo when over 45 000 people die every year in the US because they can't afford healthcare. And that number is 0 in every other industrialized country.
Unless someone lacks compassion for people who are less fortunate than yourself. Just the other day there was a story about a mother who lost her child because the ambulance suggested she take a car, because she wouldn't be able to afford the ambulance ride. Only in America...

My friend from Florida got bit by a dog and had to get a rabies shot. He's just a college student but was forced to pay over $4000 USD for those shots. And that's a lot of money for a college student. If that happened to me I'd pay $10 - $15. What a garbage system.

@Ka-pi96 Why American's are so against universal healthcare is a mix of years of brainwashing funded by the pharmaceutical industry, while USA is the only modern country where the government can't negotiate drug prices, which is why USA doesn't just have the worst overall healthcare of any modern nation, they also pay the most for it. (If you're rich, US healthcare is No #1 though.) You can buy the same US manufactured drugs from Canada for costs many times lower than if you buy them domestically.

The other factor is that a lot of people don't consider these things until it happens to them or someone they care about.
I've seen a fair number of people who initially were against it and called it theft (like paying for roads, the fire department, etc?) and then months later started a go fundme begging strangers for money to pay for their medical bills.
I think the difference between most of us, and people like them, is that it doesn't need to happen to us personally before we realize its importance.
Look at this conservative writer going to a progressive rally.

She thinks it's terrifying to consider... that our children deserve healthcare and education...

It's astonishing to anyone who has lived outside of the US for a few years that someone would think like this. But to them, this is normal.

To everyone else, it's almost unbelievable that a country that frequently boasts about being the best has managed to convince it's population to have 45 000 die every year due to something that's considered a human right in every other industrialized nation.
Of course people deserve to live, at the very least. Except in the US.

Of course universal healthcare will cost less. Every other country with universal healthcare spend less for healthcare/medicine per person than USA does.  Their system is more cost efficient. The legislation that passed in 2002 that prevents the government from negotiating drug prices with pharmaceutical companies would no longer be able to get exploited to the same degree with the regulations that come with a single payer system.
But even if it cost more, it's still very much something every modern society should have. Everyone should have a right to live in a humane society.

Last edited by Hiku - on 01 August 2018

Of course it is. They find trillions out of the blue for tax cuts on big corporations and yet they can't find a cent or common sense to implement a health care system that's doable.