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Why don't you believe that Trump is a Russian tool?

Forums - Politics Discussion - Why don't you believe that Trump is a Russian tool?

Most people who think the Russians somehow altered the elections say they did so by leaking the DNC Emails to Assange. This kind of influence over a foreign election--exposing corruption--is perfectly ethical. Complaining about this is basically whining. I don't think the Russians did this--they would have blackmailed Clinton instead and Clinton would have agreed to do whatever they wanted in a heartbeat--but if they did, they did us a favor and we should say, "thank you."

The few people who think the Kremlin somehow rigged voting machines do not understand the Electoral College. Say what you will about it's representativeness (although reflecting the Popular Vote was never a stated goal) but the Electoral College makes hard theft of a nationwide election virtually impossible. You see, in a popular vote election, you can pick and choose where you want to dump votes and dump them only in places you have strong influence over. An Electoral College system means you can't pick where you dump your phony votes; you have to put them into battleground states which are likely to be hotly contested and scrutinized. It's hard enough for a political party with hundreds of boots on the ground and people who are intimately familiar with the system and people involved to pull this off. A foreign government doing this with a few dozen foreign operatives and perhaps a few insiders (and I'm being REALLY generous with those numbers) is literally unfathomable.



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PwerlvlAmy said:
I don't believe it because the left/democrats are trying to find anyway and every way to avoid accountability for their own shortcomings. Also given how much all MSM media pushes a narrative and lies constantly, none of it is believable at all. But that's just my take on it.

If they lie, does it mean that right wing media don't? I'm lately sick and tired of any media TBH. If one side is constantly trying to push their agenda and the other does the same thing, that means they're both wrong as nothing's ever black or white. We all live in one, big grey area, but no one's reporting on gray anymore. What happened to independent media?  What happened to reality checks, facts and proofs? All I can hear nowadays are opinions, chinese whispers and conspiracy theories. Are people really so hungry for the hot news that are catered to their world-view, that they stopped caring about those fundamental things? 



I guess it comes down to compelling evidence and Trump having to consistently be on Russia's side.

1.) Any such evidence presented by MSM has been woefully lacking for such an extraordinary claim.  We're literally at a time in US history where factually-proven RIGGING during the DNC primaries can be just taken as past news while the newest string of indictments making the rounds are about several Russian agents allegedly...making bots to influence the election (that's not really all that surprising when it comes to meddling in our affairs).  By any other measurement of investigative reporting, you'd have literally found that 'ace in the hole' that'd back up the extraordinary claim by now.

2.) I'd expect 1-to-1 of Russia's wants and Trump's actions.  That hasn't really been the case.

-For a party and President now being so cozy with Russia, they seemed to have no qualms in Montenegro officially joining NATO.

-Saber-rattling in Syria due to Assad's alleged gas attacks on citizens (although that's just a quagmire to begin with)

-Has maintained Ukraine sanctions along with EU countries

-Has done one over that of Obama and provided weapons to Ukraine to fight against Russian-backed rebels

-Followed along with NATO allies in kicking out a number of Russian diplomats after that nerve gas attack in UK, plus closing down their embassy in Seattle

I'm probably missing a few things to add to the list as well.  Needless to say, anyone bleating on and on about 'Trump = Russian puppet' has got some serious explaining to do; if they won't, perhaps re-examine their lives and how they're potentially being played like a fiddle.



Because it's bullshit. It doesn't make any sense to still believe in Santa or this. Alot of the left doesn't want to contend with the idea that Trump legitimately won and the implications that go along with it. The scariest thing to the left is the idea that Trump won because of reasonable people who are tired of progressivism/sjws and disagree with the left on policy.



Aeolus451 said:
Because it's bullshit. It doesn't make any sense to still believe in Santa or this. Alot of the left doesn't want to contend with the idea that Trump legitimately won and the implications that go along with it. The scariest thing to the left is the idea that Trump won because of reasonable people who are tired of progressivism/sjws and disagree with the left on policy.

Right? Pre-election it was all "Trump is not going to win" and "Trump better accept the results of the election" and "Trump it's not rigged you're just losing!"

Notice they NEVER blame Trump for the loss? It's ALWAYS Comey/Macedonia content farms/Russia/Bernie/old white people/coal miners/etc. etc. NEVER TRump.

It's like people forget he also took down 16 Republicans as well, including a member of the Bush family.



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Kristof81 said:
PwerlvlAmy said:
I don't believe it because the left/democrats are trying to find anyway and every way to avoid accountability for their own shortcomings. Also given how much all MSM media pushes a narrative and lies constantly, none of it is believable at all. But that's just my take on it.

If they lie, does it mean that right wing media don't? I'm lately sick and tired of any media TBH. If one side is constantly trying to push their agenda and the other does the same thing, that means they're both wrong as nothing's ever black or white. We all live in one, big grey area, but no one's reporting on gray anymore. What happened to independent media?  What happened to reality checks, facts and proofs? All I can hear nowadays are opinions, chinese whispers and conspiracy theories. Are people really so hungry for the hot news that are catered to their world-view, that they stopped caring about those fundamental things? 

Tbh its best you dont listen to the narrative given by all MSM, which is why I specifically stated ''all msm media pushes a narrative'' in my previous post.



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PwerlvlAmy said:
Kristof81 said:

If they lie, does it mean that right wing media don't? I'm lately sick and tired of any media TBH. If one side is constantly trying to push their agenda and the other does the same thing, that means they're both wrong as nothing's ever black or white. We all live in one, big grey area, but no one's reporting on gray anymore. What happened to independent media?  What happened to reality checks, facts and proofs? All I can hear nowadays are opinions, chinese whispers and conspiracy theories. Are people really so hungry for the hot news that are catered to their world-view, that they stopped caring about those fundamental things? 

Tbh its best you dont listen to the narrative given by all MSM, which is why I specifically stated ''all msm media pushes a narrative'' in my previous post.

Yeah msm are in alot of cases the cause of these differences in discussions, they're still trusted too much to my liking .

People cannot see lies when only seeing one political side of the msm.



I would be surprised if he wasn't a Russian tool, but ultimately like with every criminal investigation I am on the side of innocent until proven guilty.



edit. I don't know how my posted ended up in a different thread.



The answer to this and all questions of political blindness has been provided by Antonio Gramsci a century ago. Hegemony. The dark fog over our minds that compels us to see politics and society in ways that are particularly helpful to our rulers. Hegemony is not merely the ascription to an ideology, but is the very believability of certain ideas, norms, and beliefs.

"Ideas and opinions are not spontaneously "born" in each individual brain: they have had a centre of formation, or irradiation, of dissemination, of persuasion-a group of men, or a single individual even, which has developed them and presented them in the political form of current reality". A. Gramsci