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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - The biggest problem with 3rd party ports on Switch...

Miyamotoo said:
MajorMalfunction said:

I'm a skeptic by nature. I'll believe it when I see it. Switch is doing good, but nothing got announced at E3. I hope I'm wrong, but I feel like there's fundamental problems with the way Nintendo tries to attract third parties. Nintendo needs third parties, third parties don't need Nintendo. That's where I'm coming from. Hope I've explained myself at least.

Disagree, I don't think there is problem at all between Nintendo and 3rd party any more, we know that Nintendo has much better communication with 3rd party regardless support than before, and Switch has much better support from tools and engine support than before, at end all comes to if 3rd partes think is worth enough to release some games on Switch. Saying that Nintendo needs third parties but third parties don't need Nintendo is wrong, offcourse that potential and sales for Switch would be stronger with 3rd party than whithout them, but Switch is selling very good despite has much weaker 3rd party support than XB1/PS4, on other hand all that could be said for 3rd party, potential and sales for 3rd party would be stronger if they support Switch also, but they are also selling good whithout Nintendo support.

Stronger, yes, but how much stronger? It's not just at raw sales I'm looking at. It's also cost. You make $27 on a $70 Switch game, with $20 to publish. On PS/XB, it's the same revenue, but you only pay about $12. By my estimates, if you sell 200,000 copies at 100% sell-through, you make like 1.4 million on a 4 million investment (pub only, not a single cent on porting). If you're under 100% sell-through, you get stuck with unsold copies. Misjudge and you lose big. That's where we seem to disagree. 



Currently (Re-)Playing: Starcraft 2: Legacy of the Void Multiplayer, The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past

Currently Watching: The Shield, Stein's;Gate, Narcos

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MajorMalfunction said:
Miyamotoo said:

Disagree, I don't think there is problem at all between Nintendo and 3rd party any more, we know that Nintendo has much better communication with 3rd party regardless support than before, and Switch has much better support from tools and engine support than before, at end all comes to if 3rd partes think is worth enough to release some games on Switch. Saying that Nintendo needs third parties but third parties don't need Nintendo is wrong, offcourse that potential and sales for Switch would be stronger with 3rd party than whithout them, but Switch is selling very good despite has much weaker 3rd party support than XB1/PS4, on other hand all that could be said for 3rd party, potential and sales for 3rd party would be stronger if they support Switch also, but they are also selling good whithout Nintendo support.

Stronger, yes, but how much stronger? It's not just at raw sales I'm looking at. It's also cost. You make $27 on a $70 Switch game, with $20 to publish. On PS/XB, it's the same revenue, but you only pay about $12. By my estimates, if you sell 200,000 copies at 100% sell-through, you make like 1.4 million on a 4 million investment (pub only, not a single cent on porting). If you're under 100% sell-through, you get stuck with unsold copies. Misjudge and you lose big. That's where we seem to disagree. 

It would be intresting to see break down of your math, what numbers are for what and how and from where you got those numbers.



MajorMalfunction said:

I hope I'm wrong, but I feel like there's fundamental problems with the way Nintendo tries to attract third parties. Nintendo needs third parties, third parties don't need Nintendo.

Not really, what you're saying is only true if talking specifically about AAA western titles but considering that Switch is a powerful handheld/modest home console than that type of support wasnt really expected to begin with.

You should be looking at Switch as the successor to the Wii/Wii U, DS/3DS & PSP/Vita lines of hardware so it should be getting the consolidated support of the type of software those systems recieved and so far its doing exactly that.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

zorg1000 said:
MajorMalfunction said:

I hope I'm wrong, but I feel like there's fundamental problems with the way Nintendo tries to attract third parties. Nintendo needs third parties, third parties don't need Nintendo.

(1) Not really, what you're saying is only true if talking specifically about AAA western titles but considering that Switch is a powerful handheld/modest home console than that type of support wasnt really expected to begin with.

(2)You should be looking at Switch as the successor to the Wii/Wii U, DS/3DS & PSP/Vita lines of hardware so it should be getting the consolidated support of the type of software those systems recieved and so far its doing exactly that.

(1) I was specifically taking about that market segment (Western/Japanese AAA games). I agree, but Nintendo kinda sold it as both. People have their hopes up for those games. They got a taste with Skyrim and Doom and Wolfenstein. It's gonna come crashing down. E3 was pretty big IMO. Not 1 multiplat announced for Switch, IIRC. Lots of smaller indie games do quite well, even better than Steam in many cases. (Not necessarily demographics, Steam is flooded with shovelware. Nintendo wanted 30 game / week. Steam gets 25-30 trash asset flip / rip-off / shitty clone games a day. It's uncontrollable). But that's not what I want a Switch for. I want AAA games on the go. I got that playing BOTW. I want more.



Currently (Re-)Playing: Starcraft 2: Legacy of the Void Multiplayer, The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past

Currently Watching: The Shield, Stein's;Gate, Narcos

MajorMalfunction said:
zorg1000 said:

(1) Not really, what you're saying is only true if talking specifically about AAA western titles but considering that Switch is a powerful handheld/modest home console than that type of support wasnt really expected to begin with.

(2)You should be looking at Switch as the successor to the Wii/Wii U, DS/3DS & PSP/Vita lines of hardware so it should be getting the consolidated support of the type of software those systems recieved and so far its doing exactly that.

(1) I was specifically taking about that market segment (Western/Japanese AAA games). I agree, but Nintendo kinda sold it as both. People have their hopes up for those games. They got a taste with Skyrim and Doom and Wolfenstein. It's gonna come crashing down. E3 was pretty big IMO. Not 1 multiplat announced for Switch, IIRC. Lots of smaller indie games do quite well, even better than Steam in many cases. (Not necessarily demographics, Steam is flooded with shovelware. Nintendo wanted 30 game / week. Steam gets 25-30 trash asset flip / rip-off / shitty clone games a day. It's uncontrollable). But that's not what I want a Switch for. I want AAA games on the go. I got that playing BOTW. I want more.

You notice a trend with the AAA 3rd party games you just listed? They are either downgraded late ports or last-gen remasters, outside of exclusives thats the type of AAA support you should expect.

Again, look at the type of support Wii U, 3DS & Vita got, the goal for Switch should be to get the consolidated support of those devices and so far its doing that very well.

Indie games, niche Japanese games, kid/family games, retro games, sports games, free-to-play games, late downports, last gen remasters.

This year Switch has gotten/will get Payday 2, Outlast 1+2, South Park, Paladins, Fortnite,  Ys VIII, Wolfenstein 2, Shining Resonance, Monster Hunter Generations, Dark Souls Remastered, Dragonball FighterZ, Ark: Survival Evolved, Wasteland 2, Pillars of Eternity 2, Warframe for your AA/AAA fix.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

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zorg1000 said:
MajorMalfunction said:

(1) I was specifically taking about that market segment (Western/Japanese AAA games). I agree, but Nintendo kinda sold it as both. People have their hopes up for those games. They got a taste with Skyrim and Doom and Wolfenstein. It's gonna come crashing down. E3 was pretty big IMO. Not 1 multiplat announced for Switch, IIRC. Lots of smaller indie games do quite well, even better than Steam in many cases. (Not necessarily demographics, Steam is flooded with shovelware. Nintendo wanted 30 game / week. Steam gets 25-30 trash asset flip / rip-off / shitty clone games a day. It's uncontrollable). But that's not what I want a Switch for. I want AAA games on the go. I got that playing BOTW. I want more.

You notice a trend with the AAA 3rd party games you just listed? They are either downgraded late ports or last-gen remasters, outside of exclusives thats the type of AAA support you should expect.

Again, look at the type of support Wii U, 3DS & Vita got, the goal for Switch should be to get the consolidated support of those devices and so far its doing that very well.

Indie games, niche Japanese games, kid/family games, retro games, sports games, free-to-play games, late downports, last gen remasters.

This year Switch has gotten/will get Payday 2, Outlast 1+2, South Park, Paladins, Fortnite,  Ys VIII, Wolfenstein 2, Shining Resonance, Monster Hunter Generations, Dark Souls Remastered, Dragonball FighterZ, Ark: Survival Evolved, Wasteland 2, Pillars of Eternity 2, Warframe for your AA/AAA fix.

Yeah, I can get most of those on PC. I have MGSV and TW3 and a whole bunch of other shit I have to play. Fucking Steam sales breaking my wallet :( I just want awesome games portable. As Trump would say, "Sad."



Currently (Re-)Playing: Starcraft 2: Legacy of the Void Multiplayer, The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past

Currently Watching: The Shield, Stein's;Gate, Narcos

MajorMalfunction said:
zorg1000 said:

You notice a trend with the AAA 3rd party games you just listed? They are either downgraded late ports or last-gen remasters, outside of exclusives thats the type of AAA support you should expect.

Again, look at the type of support Wii U, 3DS & Vita got, the goal for Switch should be to get the consolidated support of those devices and so far its doing that very well.

Indie games, niche Japanese games, kid/family games, retro games, sports games, free-to-play games, late downports, last gen remasters.

This year Switch has gotten/will get Payday 2, Outlast 1+2, South Park, Paladins, Fortnite,  Ys VIII, Wolfenstein 2, Shining Resonance, Monster Hunter Generations, Dark Souls Remastered, Dragonball FighterZ, Ark: Survival Evolved, Wasteland 2, Pillars of Eternity 2, Warframe for your AA/AAA fix.

Yeah, I can get most of those on PC. I have MGSV and TW3 and a whole bunch of other shit I have to play. Fucking Steam sales breaking my wallet :( I just want awesome games portable. As Trump would say, "Sad."

Thats quite the contradiction when your whole argument is about multiplats and even listed a bunch of games on PC.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

zorg1000 said:
MajorMalfunction said:

Yeah, I can get most of those on PC. I have MGSV and TW3 and a whole bunch of other shit I have to play. Fucking Steam sales breaking my wallet :( I just want awesome games portable. As Trump would say, "Sad."

Thats quite the contradiction when your whole argument is about multiplats and even listed a bunch of games on PC.

It's not that just they're on PC, I can't play them on Switch. That and a game is $80 + 12% tax (93 or so dollars) in Canada.  I spent that and got like 10 games. Switch is good for indies and the usual lineup of superstar Nintendo franchises I can't live without. The other thing pushing me towards PC / Steam is I don't pay tax on digital products for some reason. Doom was exactly $19.99 on sale. Great fucking game. 10/10 would buy again.



Currently (Re-)Playing: Starcraft 2: Legacy of the Void Multiplayer, The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past

Currently Watching: The Shield, Stein's;Gate, Narcos

Welcome to almost two years ago when I presented my argument about Switch's strong point:

Upgrading 3DS exclusives to modern day standards. I said getting the worst version of multiplats on the go was not the strength; rather, getting games like Monster Hunter, Braverly, and others up to 1080p. I argued that the only difference between the 3DS software and the home console software was the graphics. Many, many gamers get 3DS titles and think. "this would be so much better on my television" and Switch finally gives us a chance to do just that. Nintendo will not have the top of the line ports, but like 3DS, they will have enough original and exclusive content that people will still have a reason to own the console.

I also said that Switch was in position to really help the industry. The gap between AAA and indie titles was getting wider and wider yet Switch gave developers an opportunity to keep studios open because they still had a place to put their AA budget titles since Switch is technically a handheld. I was only half correct about that one as SquareEnix recently opened a new studio technically growing the industry opposed to just holding the industry in place.

Not one person agreed with me when I posted these things. Everyone that read my posts basically argued with me up and down that I was insulting Switch by making this claim. Finally we get Octopath, a game that would have been on 3DS last generation, and now people want to see my point without giving me the credit of my foresight. OK. Fine. Just glad I was able to get that out.



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GhaudePhaede010 said:
Welcome to almost two years ago when I presented my argument about Switch's strong point:

Upgrading 3DS exclusives to modern day standards. I said getting the worst version of multiplats on the go was not the strength; rather, getting games like Monster Hunter, Braverly, and others up to 1080p. I argued that the only difference between the 3DS software and the home console software was the graphics. Many, many gamers get 3DS titles and think. "this would be so much better on my television" and Switch finally gives us a chance to do just that. Nintendo will not have the top of the line ports, but like 3DS, they will have enough original and exclusive content that people will still have a reason to own the console.

I also said that Switch was in position to really help the industry. The gap between AAA and indie titles was getting wider and wider yet Switch gave developers an opportunity to keep studios open because they still had a place to put their AA budget titles since Switch is technically a handheld. I was only half correct about that one as SquareEnix recently opened a new studio technically growing the industry opposed to just holding the industry in place.

Not one person agreed with me when I posted these things. Everyone that read my posts basically argued with me up and down that I was insulting Switch by making this claim. Finally we get Octopath, a game that would have been on 3DS last generation, and now people want to see my point without giving me the credit of my foresight. OK. Fine. Just glad I was able to get that out.

Whoa whoa whoa dont pretend nobody agreed, ive been saying since 2014 when Iwata talked about a unified platform that it would basically be a consolidation of 3DS+Wii U software support (Vita as well once it became clear it wouldnt get a successor).



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.