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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - How could Nintendo implement a Switch Pro?

Switch Pro definitely only needs to happen when Nvidia can get the next Tegra down to a small enough power draw but still powerful enough to be a extremely significant jump over the current Switch. The closer Nintendo can get Switch to current PS4 and XbOne performance the better.



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Every successful Nintendo system ever has had at least one hardware revision, and the Switch's design is more open to such revisions than some of those that did.



I have almost zero expectations of a power boosted Switch, like 5% or less. Maybe something incredibly minor, but nothing that would be a cause of a separate Dev fork for games in optimizations.

I have a 95% expectation that they're going to make a Switch Mini though.

5" display, die shrink, integrated controls, still compatible with external joycons, no dock included, dongle only for HDMI, perhaps with a kickstand type chunk of plastic in place of a dock (some type of smart design that could fold one way to cover screen for pocketable traveling, fold another way to serve as stand while 'docked', and which could simply fold flush to the rear while in handheld usage.

. $199 or less, no later than fall 2019. Existing Switch will remain available.



Mr Puggsly said:
melbye said:
I'd rather they focus on next generation hardware, New 3DS and PS4 Pro just seem so utterly pointless

New 3DS and PS4 Pro are example of poor execution, but not entirely pointless.

I'm critical of the New 3DS for two reasons. The resolution should have been increased, make it a glorious 480p platform. Also, the GPU/CPU should have seen a significant boost, so it could easily handle some Wii ports. Maybe that would have also meant more support.

The PS4 Pro simply wasn't a big enough boost. The X1X on other hand better executes on the promise of 4K with other improvements. However, both are a solution for better visuals whether its on a 1080p screen or the growing popularity of 4K TVs.

What would be point of 480p display if games work at 240p?



Miyamotoo said:
Mr Puggsly said:

New 3DS and PS4 Pro are example of poor execution, but not entirely pointless.

I'm critical of the New 3DS for two reasons. The resolution should have been increased, make it a glorious 480p platform. Also, the GPU/CPU should have seen a significant boost, so it could easily handle some Wii ports. Maybe that would have also meant more support.

The PS4 Pro simply wasn't a big enough boost. The X1X on other hand better executes on the promise of 4K with other improvements. However, both are a solution for better visuals whether its on a 1080p screen or the growing popularity of 4K TVs.

What would be point of 480p display if games work at 240p?

With that logic I'm not sure why Switch has a 720p screen. Wolfenstein 2 is playable at 360p... *trollface.jpg*

I was actually suggesting New 3DS supported games actually run games at native 480p. Perhaps even patch some old 1st party games IF POSSIBLE.



Recently Completed
River City: Rival Showdown
for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

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Mr Puggsly said:
Miyamotoo said:

What would be point of 480p display if games work at 240p?

With that logic I'm not sure why Switch has a 720p screen. Wolfenstein 2 is playable at 360p... *trollface.jpg*

I was actually suggesting New 3DS supported games actually run games at native 480p. Perhaps even patch some old 1st party games IF POSSIBLE.

What you wrote don't have anything with my logic, 3DS has 240p resolution and games are made to work in that resolution, Switch has 720p resolution and games are made to work at 720p or lower resolution, dont forget that majority of all Switch games in portable mode actually runs at 720p.

Thats a point, in that way Nintendo and 3rd party would need to patch every game to work at higher resolution if that is actually possible (because maybe even New 3DS doesn't have enough strength to run games at 480p).

Last edited by Miyamotoo - on 04 July 2018

Miyamotoo said:
Mr Puggsly said:

With that logic I'm not sure why Switch has a 720p screen. Wolfenstein 2 is playable at 360p... *trollface.jpg*

I was actually suggesting New 3DS supported games actually run games at native 480p. Perhaps even patch some old 1st party games IF POSSIBLE.

What you wrote don't have anything with my logic, 3DS has 240p resolution and games are made to work in that resolution, Switch has 720p resolution and games are made to work at 720p or lower resolution, dont forget that majority of all Switch games in portable mode actually runs at 720p.

Thats a point, in that way Nintendo and 3rd party would need to patch every game to work at higher resolution if that is actually possible (because maybe even New 3DS doesn't have enough strength to run games at 480p).

I elaborated in previous posts. The New 3DS was underpowered, it was a missed opportunity.

"I'm critical of the New 3DS for two reasons. The resolution should have been increased, make it a glorious 480p platform. Also, the GPU/CPU should have seen a significant boost, so it could easily handle some Wii ports. Maybe that would have also meant more support."

I'm saying the New 3DS should have been equipped with a more powerful GPU/CPU capable of running 480p. For example, Xenoblade on New 3DS has a lower resolution and scaled back visuals. If the new 3DS could do 480p and had more power, it could have been able to run the game at par with Wii.

For comparison sake, I'm saying the New 3DS (Nintendo's 2015 portable specs) should have been closer to a Vita (Sony's 2011 portable specs). For something called new... it felt old at launch.



Recently Completed
River City: Rival Showdown
for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

Miyamotoo said:

What would be point of 480p display if games work at 240p?

Upscaling.
It also reduces the fly-screen effect thanks to the low resolution display.

Games are not obligated to meet their displayed resolution to still see benefits, that works in both directions, downscaling and upscaling.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Pemalite said:
Pyro as Bill said:

Yeah I gathered. I still don't get why though if USB C is 5-10Gbps and external GPUs can work with 2-4Gbps (https://www.techinferno.com/index.php?/forums/topic/8919-implementations-hub-tb-ec-mpcie/).

USB-C doesn't guarantee 5-10Gbps, the Switch from what I can tell is using a USB-C connector but is using a USB 3.0 hub, but it hasn't had the firmware update to enable USB 3.0 thus it is operating at USB 2.0 speeds. (Someone feel free to correct me on this, there may have been a firmware update.)

I can see why that might be an issue.

USB 3.0's maximum throughput is 640 MBps. - That is MegaBytes per second, you need to reserve a few hundred megabytes for handshaking, Video, Networking and the Dock's USB hub... And let's face it. Playing around with 300-400MB for multi-GPU is never going to ever cut for something with the performance level of Tegra X1.

Besides. Gbps is "Giga-bits per second" not "Gigabytes per second".
10Gbps is actually 1.25 Gigabytes per second, the Switch's Ram is about 20x faster than that by itself. - Do you see the issue there?

Laptops and egpus must face the same issue too mustn't they? How do these guys run TITANs and 970s through 10Gbps or HD7970s through 4Gbps?

https://www.techinferno.com/index.php?/forums/topic/6740-2012-15-macbook-pro-titan_z10gbps-tb1-akitio-thunder2-osx1010-nesone/&do=findComment&comment=103967

https://www.techinferno.com/index.php?/forums/topic/6962-2012-15-macbook-pro-gtx97010gbps-tb1-akitio-thunder2-win10osx1010-w4vz/&do=findComment&comment=107769

https://www.techinferno.com/index.php?/forums/topic/6766-2012-15-mbp-gt650m-hd79704gbps-tbec2-pe4l-21b-win10-rhodesie/&tab=comments#comment-104465


And that is before we even touch on the topic of latency.

Now if the Switch actually used a connection that leveraged PCI-E, then we would be talking... And.. I can't believe I had to explain this all over again. :/

You techies love it. When Nintendo put a PCI-E connection in the upgraded TX2 Switch, wouldn't any egpu still be severely limited by CPU? Would the egpu need to be built around the Tegra or could Nvidia use magic and allow any gpu to work?



Nov 2016 - NES outsells PS1 (JP)

Don't Play Stationary 4 ever. Switch!

Pyro as Bill said:

Laptops and egpus must face the same issue too mustn't they? How do these guys run TITANs and 970s through 10Gbps or HD7970s through 4Gbps?

https://www.techinferno.com/index.php?/forums/topic/6740-2012-15-macbook-pro-titan_z10gbps-tb1-akitio-thunder2-osx1010-nesone/&do=findComment&comment=103967

https://www.techinferno.com/index.php?/forums/topic/6962-2012-15-macbook-pro-gtx97010gbps-tb1-akitio-thunder2-win10osx1010-w4vz/&do=findComment&comment=107769

https://www.techinferno.com/index.php?/forums/topic/6766-2012-15-mbp-gt650m-hd79704gbps-tbec2-pe4l-21b-win10-rhodesie/&tab=comments#comment-104465

That is the Akitio Thunder2.
It is not using a derivative of USB, it is using dual Thunderbolt 2 ports which piggy back off PCI-Express.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/7049/intel-thunderbolt-2-everything-you-need-to-know

https://www.amazon.com/Akitio-Thunder2-PCIe-Box-intended/dp/B00LTAUTHE

The device itself was actually never designed for graphics cards anyway... And there is a performance penalty and is pretty low-latency.

But it is certainly higher bandwidth and lower latency than the Switch's USB port.

Pyro as Bill said:
You techies love it. When Nintendo put a PCI-E connection in the upgraded TX2 Switch, wouldn't any egpu still be severely limited by CPU? Would the egpu need to be built around the Tegra or could Nvidia use magic and allow any gpu to work?

Well... The extra GPU would mostly be used to drive improved visuals, so the CPU shouldn't be anymore limiting than it is currently.
nVidia in theory could leverage it's "Optimus" technology and allow any GPU to work, it isn't hard to beat the Switch's GPU capabilities, even the Geforce 1030 is faster.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--