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Forums - Politics Discussion - U.S. withdraws from UN Human Rights Council

HylianSwordsman said:
VAMatt said:

I suggest dissolving the UN altogether, and replacing it with nothing.  The UN, in many respects, simply props up terrible governments all over the place, and lends credibility to others.  There certainly have been some good things to come out of the UN.  Possibly the most important is just getting adversarial governments in the same room with each other.  But, I see the history of the organization as one of corruption, propping up of scumbag dictators, and lending of credibility to oppressive regimes much more so than being a force for good.  It also wastes a shitload of money putting the blue helmet guys in war zones without any authorization to do anything while there.  So, its a net-negative in my book.  

As for the US leaving the HR council right now, I'm sure it is motivated by politics, rather than principle.  Nevertheless, I support the result of that stunt.  

To me, you can't argue with the unprecedented era of peace between major world powers. Yes, there's corruption and propping up of dictators (some of which we ourselves put into place, I might add) but before the UN, there were regular wars between major powers, and afterwards, only proxy wars at worst. I'll take that over WWIII. Replacing it with nothing would guarantee WWIII. There needs to be some formal diplomacy organization that creates global rules, or at least norms, that prevent WWIII. I see no other alternative to human extinction from the inevitable nukes that would launch.

I see no reason to think that the UN has prevented any major wars.  There has been near-constant war since the end of WWII.  The fact that the US and the USSR didn't wipe each other off the map has no connection to the UN that I am aware of.  The reason that didn't happen is because there was (and still is) no possible way to "win" that war.  And, there's really no money to be made in fighting it.  



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VAMatt said:

I see no reason to think that the UN has prevented any major wars.  There has been near-constant war since the end of WWII.  The fact that the US and the USSR didn't wipe each other off the map has no connection to the UN that I am aware of.  The reason that didn't happen is because there was (and still is) no possible way to "win" that war.  And, there's really no money to be made in fighting it.  

I'm talking about a war over Europe and the free world. There has been constant proxy war, but notice that no wars have taken place in Europe or between Western democracies. That's not all the EU's doing, as this also applies to non-European and non-EU European democracies. Just a few scattered civil wars is all we've seen in the West. And no one has invaded Europe or Western democracies either, which is also partly due to NATO, which is also being weakened by the current administration. Also, the UN has played a huge role in preventing nuclear proliferation, save for a few rogue countries like Iran or North Korea. More nukes in more countries would not make us safer. No one, not even Trump, thinks that. I mean, he's suggested it at times, but he contradicts himself often enough you have to just go by his actions, and he seems to think more countries with nukes is a bad thing. We've almost caused nuclear flareups multiple times simply by accident or miscommunication. Imagine a world where 100+ governments, most of them even more ineffective and sometimes even more corrupt than our bumbling monstrosity, all have nukes. It would be like a room flooded with gasoline and the walls are dynamite and everyone has guns pointed at each other. With two people pointing guns its risky enough, with 100+ people it's all the more terrifying. Aside from that though, imagine the UN collapses tomorrow. Russia would have little incentive not to invade. They already did invade Ukraine, and they'd engage in a full out assault without the UN putting pressure on them and NATO being questioned by the USA. China wouldn't have much reason not to take a crack at it to see what they can grab. They already did so with Tibet. Today's world is rampant with neoimperialism, but a world without the UN or NATO would be rampant with old school imperialism, which is much uglier.

And while I'd agree that there's no way to win a nuclear war, some Russian elites disagree, and believe a quick enough and powerful enough strike with advanced enough tech, which Russia is getting very far ahead of us on, would be enough to leave the enemy defenseless. Once Putin is gone, one of those elites could take over. But that's another can of worms altogether.



SuaveSocialist said:
pokoko said:
While I don't agree with the move, I do find it interesting that the OP tries to completely marginalize the "other reasons".

The Democratic Republic of the Congo was just made a member of a human rights council. Let that sink in for a moment. 

...And by leaving the council, Beloved Leader surrendered political influence to the Congo.

Let that sink in for a moment.

I literally said that I do not agree with the move.  You quoted that part, in fact.

Also, what's with the "Beloved Leader" gimmick?  Trying to start a meme or something?  Imitating Rush Limbaugh?  It's kind of funny how silly adults become over politics.  Reminds me of the people who thought they were clever for saying "Obama bin Laden".



SuaveSocialist said:
Jon-Erich said:

I just said his administration took similar actions

False.  You did not say "similar".  You said "same". I even quoted you making that claim if you wish to review it for yourself.  

 

Politifact rates that claim as "False".

And that proves my point above. Jumping at a technicality to prove him false.

I saw some article recently that bosted a headline like "Trump lies 95% of the time" or some shit.

Clearly using the technique you just did to prove any of this statements as lies. Or like someone says a double negative without noticing. Bullshit like that.



pokoko said:
SuaveSocialist said:

...And by leaving the council, Beloved Leader surrendered political influence to the Congo.

Let that sink in for a moment.

I literally said that I do not agree with the move.  

And I never suggested otherwise.  I added to your thoughts, I did not refute them.



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The UN is an utter joke. 3rd world nations with horrible human rights records having a voice on the international stage... christ. As someone pointed out, if the fucking Congo can be part of the council, then it truely is a sham. Anyway, I swear I thought it was the security council they were pulling of, but whatever.



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CaptainExplosion said:
deskpro2k3 said:

Good, let them pull out of the UN as well /s. Don need crazy people like Lying Haley to veto against rational ideas and progress.

You can't be serious. -_-

/s is for sarcasm. but I'm serious about Haley being a crazy betch. <- intentionally spelled wrong. 



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At least the US is leading the world by getting human rights abusers out of the UN human rights council.



Proxy-Pie said:
At least the US is leading the world by getting human rights abusers out of the UN human rights council.

Now we just have to wait for the trickle down effect to set in.



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irstupid said:
Jon-Erich said:

Um, no. I never said it was Obama's policy. I just said his administration took similar actions at some point in the past. 

Ignore fact checkers when it comes to Trump. Not that the facts are wrong, but they tend to fact check a sort of tangent to what he says, and thus the 'lie' is not related at all to his meaning or what he said at all.

I recal reading some fact checkers after some Trump/Clinton debates and it was hilarious how they managed to spin everything Trump said into a lie and everything Clinton said into the truth. They both lied equally, we are not idiots. 

Tim Pool actually made a video about this very subject the other day. A fact checker for the New Yorker defamed wounded marine veteran by calling him a Nazi because she didn't bother doing any research on the various different iron crosses that militaries from around the world used. Tim is usually very professional in his videos, though this particular incident pissed him off to the point where he flat out said this reporter needs to be fired and called the New Yorker a garbage publication.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_oV77XH0Lw

I'm not saying that the article about Trump is outright false, but as you pointed out, it is never good to take a fact checker at their word because they can be biased just like anyone else.

SuaveSocialist said:
Jon-Erich said:

I just said his administration took similar actions

False.  You did not say "similar".  You said "same". I even quoted you making that claim if you wish to review it for yourself.  

 

Politifact rates that claim as "False".

They followed the same law. Their actions in enforcing that law is what differed. Also, I never said it was Obama's policy. I am fully aware that the law that Trump is currently enforcing was passed back in the 1990s. 



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