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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Smash Ultimate is not a port... and not a brand new game?

 

Would you say Smash Ultimate is...

A port 18 14.75%
 
A brand new game 74 60.66%
 
A compilation 23 18.85%
 
Something else 7 5.74%
 
Total:122

It´s more or like the Splatoon / Splatoon 2 case.

It´s a new game that uses assets from the previous game.

We just need to know what game modes it will have. I believe we will see some departures from Smash WiiU - like that board game and the challenge mode.



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I'm not the biggest Smash fan out there, but what does a game need to be considered brand new? There are new fighters, new stages, the HUD and stage selection got an overhaul, gameplay got tweaked, there are new mechanics and rebalances, the graphics have been improved... of course Smash Ultimate will have a lot of content we've seen in previews games - because Smash games have absolutely been choke-full of stuff since Brawl. This is definitely a brand new game, no question.



Louie said:

I'm not the biggest Smash fan out there, but what does a game need to be considered brand new? There are new fighters, new stages, the HUD and stage selection got an overhaul, gameplay got tweaked, there are new mechanics and rebalances, the graphics have been improved... of course Smash Ultimate will have a lot of content we've seen in previews games - because Smash games have absolutely been choke-full of stuff since Brawl. This is definitely a brand new game, no question.

fighters and stages are all from the previous games from what i understand. 



quickrick said:
Louie said:

I'm not the biggest Smash fan out there, but what does a game need to be considered brand new? There are new fighters, new stages, the HUD and stage selection got an overhaul, gameplay got tweaked, there are new mechanics and rebalances, the graphics have been improved... of course Smash Ultimate will have a lot of content we've seen in previews games - because Smash games have absolutely been choke-full of stuff since Brawl. This is definitely a brand new game, no question.

fighters and stages are all from the previous games from what i understand. 

Getting things from previous installments is a common thing for every smash game after the original but no, there are actually brand new original stages and fighters.

Last edited by 160rmf - on 14 June 2018

 

 

We reap what we sow

 

quickrick said:
Louie said:

I'm not the biggest Smash fan out there, but what does a game need to be considered brand new? There are new fighters, new stages, the HUD and stage selection got an overhaul, gameplay got tweaked, there are new mechanics and rebalances, the graphics have been improved... of course Smash Ultimate will have a lot of content we've seen in previews games - because Smash games have absolutely been choke-full of stuff since Brawl. This is definitely a brand new game, no question.

fighters and stages are all from the previous games from what i understand. 

Ultimate has 3 new characters so far (if you count Daisy, being a new echo fighter) and 5 new stages so far (New Donk City is noted in Mario’s montage and I count the new Battlefield and Final Destination as new stages).

Last edited by Kai_Mao - on 14 June 2018

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quickrick said:
Louie said:

I'm not the biggest Smash fan out there, but what does a game need to be considered brand new? There are new fighters, new stages, the HUD and stage selection got an overhaul, gameplay got tweaked, there are new mechanics and rebalances, the graphics have been improved... of course Smash Ultimate will have a lot of content we've seen in previews games - because Smash games have absolutely been choke-full of stuff since Brawl. This is definitely a brand new game, no question.

fighters and stages are all from the previous games from what i understand. 

Nah, there are a couple of new fighters (Inkling, Daisy and not sure what else - not a big Smash nerd) and stages revealed already. And they certainly haven't shown everything yet. Also, DLC for the game will come. They are just scrambling for new fighters at this point as most Nintendo characters are already in the game, plus quite a bunch of third party characters. 



Nem said:
TruckOSaurus said:

Why do you have to be so condescending? You make valid points but you discredit yourself by putting down people who don't think like you. Please argue respectfully.

-----------------------

As for your point, Street Fighter IV did add moves and rebalancing as it went through its new versions but the core gameplay was still the same, the graphics stayed the same,  character models, animations but all of that has changed in Smash Ultimate which is why I don't think you can compare those situations 1 to 1.

Also, I think if we try to define a rule for what is a port and what is not that applies to ALL games that's never going to happen. Street Fighter changes a lot between numbered series but the Smash series plays relatively the same since Melee. So on the scale of what usually separates new Smash games, Smash Ultimate is as much as new game as Brawl and 4 were.

I apologize if i came off condescending, but i get upset when people arbitrarily try to redefine things when they don't define only what it is supposed to define. Saying it's a new game is fine, but you have to extend that all the way backwards to categories the previous games, and it just doesn't stick.

So, at the basis there's two currents you can choose. One simply says: A sequel is when a publisher/developer says it is. This is obviously a branding/marketing ploy and doesn't necessarily correspond to the reality. In fact it can be the base game with added content and they just decided to number it for better sales.

So, it's fair enough to go with that first definition, but you can no longer categorize anything. It's what the publishers say and that's that. In a way this is the point of view you are defending when you say there's no precise categorization and that's fair enough.

But, if you want to look past the publisher definitions/marketing into a more realistic categorization we got these definitions:

 

  • A port/enhanced port/remaster > The act of making a game playable on a different system, with graphical upgrades, downgrades or neither. It may add content as well. (think Tales of Vesperia: definitive edition)
  • A new version > The same game with small graphical improvements or not that maintains the base game content but adds to it in a single package. (think Ultra Street Fighter 4)
  • A stand alone expansion > A completely new game using the assets/mechanics of the base game. Can also expand mechanics. It may require the base game. (think Fallout New vegas)
  • A sequel > A new game in a franchise remade from the ground up. (think Dead or Alive 6)

 

If we use those definitions, Smash ultimate is: an enhanced port and/or a new version. It can under no way be considered a sequel.

 

If you want to categorize it as a sequel under these conditions, then you break the other definitions. A sequel becomes everything, because you invalidate the definitions of port and new version. Wich in turn makes things like the upcoming Tales of Vesperia: definitive edition a sequel, for example. It has improved graphics, it has new content, it has new characters and i assume new mechanics as well due to the new characters. The same can be said of Ultra Street Fighter 4. Think of the omega mode, think of the red focus and all the balance changes, new characters, new stages, new content.

It simply does not work. We can't call every port a sequel or every new version a sequel.

The other poster i was debating with said that the amount of content makes it a sequel, to wich point i didn't reply anymore because that is a completely arbitrary distinction, again. What amount of content makes it upgrade from port/version to sequel? It's not very well quantifiable.

 

My problem is not that people want to call it a sequel, it's that if they do, they must come up with a definition that doesn't categorize all ports and versions as sequels as well.  A debate on opinions just cause people feel like it, is not something i find rational and thus why i was stern about it. Just add the disclaimer that this is what you personally think, not assert it with no concern of the escalation in the classification.

Wrong. 

"sequel is a literature, film, theatre, television, music or video game that continues the story of, or expands upon, some earlier work. ... In many cases, the sequelcontinues elements of the original story, often with the same characters and settings."

So, Smash Ultimate is a Video Game that expands upon the earlier work, and in many cases continues elements of the original often with the same characters and setting. 

Smash Ultimate, sans the story parts (Which have never really been part of smash regardless), is a textbook definition of a sequel. Case closed. 



Nem said: 
  • A sequel > A new game in a franchise remade from the ground up. (think Dead or Alive 6)

So, by your definition it is a new game:

https://www.usgamer.net/articles/nintendo-smash-bros-ultimate-interview-brand-new-game-than-wii-u



Furthermore, an addendum to the definition of "Video Game Sequel"

"As software-development costs have increased, sequels have become increasingly important for the video-game industry, as they provide a way to resell a product, reusing code and graphics."

So by this point, there is literally no ground for you to stand on claiming this to be a port, enhanced or not. Smash Ultimate fits the definition of a sequel by every permutation of the definition. Give it up. You've lost. IT's over. This is not a port.

There are not only more characters than in any prior smash, but also at least three new characters. Every Smash Bros carries over most of the prior game's roster.

There are many returning levels but also brand new levels and has been graphically overhauled. Every Smash Bros has many levels from previous games.

Every Level gets Battlefield and Final Destination variants (The battlefield option is completely new.)

Many characters have significant changes to appearance, moves, or Final Smashes (Including some like the landmaster being retired)

There are core mechanic changes to dodging, rolling, air dodging, and blocking.

There is a brand new mode (1V1) that significantly alters how scores are displayed and how quickly damage is incurred.

There are changes to the UI that show more detail in damage, that show character specific gauges and item constraint.

There are new items, assist trophies, and pokemon all added to the roster.

Returning modes (like 8-player) have been upgraded significantly, or so it seems.

And I'm sure more things I forgot (it's like 8 AM here and I just woke up.)

We don't know anything about the campaign, singleplayer modes, or other ways to play yet, so it's virtually impossible to say with any sort of certainty that this is anything other than a proper sequel. It could very well be a mishmash of everything in the 3DS and WiiU version in terms of game modes, but at this point we don't know. However, from what we DO know, literally nothing has indicated this is a port, people just got it into their head that it was and won't let go of it despite the overbearing evidence to the contrary. It's like anti-vaxxers or Flat-Earthers in here.

Let the evidence guide you. Literally everything we've been given indicates this is not a port, but a sequel. Just like every other smash game. Just like every other fighting game. Just like every other game that reuses assets or characters or stages/worlds. There really should be no argument here, not until we get information about singleplayer/campaign/other game modes at the very least.



VGPolyglot said:
Nem said: 
  • A sequel > A new game in a franchise remade from the ground up. (think Dead or Alive 6)

So, by your definition it is a new game:

https://www.usgamer.net/articles/nintendo-smash-bros-ultimate-interview-brand-new-game-than-wii-u

Thanks for finding that. I wish I could give you more likes/agrees/thumbs up.