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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Smash Ultimate is not a port... and not a brand new game?

 

Would you say Smash Ultimate is...

A port 18 14.75%
 
A brand new game 74 60.66%
 
A compilation 23 18.85%
 
Something else 7 5.74%
 
Total:122
Nem said:
curl-6 said:

It is not the same assets, the graphics have been quite noticeably redone over Smash 4. Smash sequels have always reused content from previous games just with additional content, updated graphics, and tweaked mechanics. If this is a "port" then what makes Brawl a new game?

You tell me. I haven't followed the smash series development before the 3DS and Wii U versions. But, i'm a fighting game fan and can tell you what makes a game a version or a new game. A version reuses the assets. Ultimate reuses all the assets from Wii U. All the stages, all the fighters, all the animations, and adds on top of that. A new game is completely redone from the ground up. Did brawl reuse melee assets? I dunno. You tel me. Was it in the same engine? Did it have all of the same characters, animations and stages from the previous game? Somehow i doubt it did, and there you have your answer.

Ultimate doesn't just reuse Smash 4's assets though, they're clearly upgraded. Smash Ultimate is differentiated from Smash 4 in basically every way that series entries have always been differentiated from their predecessors; new graphics, new content, different mechanics. It's a straight, iterative sequel built on the framework of its predecessor, like most sequels in the industry, like Mario Kart or COD.



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Do you compare this to MvC3-Ultimate MvC3 or to Zelda OoT-Majora’s mask?
We called Majora a sequel to Ocarina despite using the same assets of OoT to make in a year.



curl-6 said:
Nem said:

You tell me. I haven't followed the smash series development before the 3DS and Wii U versions. But, i'm a fighting game fan and can tell you what makes a game a version or a new game. A version reuses the assets. Ultimate reuses all the assets from Wii U. All the stages, all the fighters, all the animations, and adds on top of that. A new game is completely redone from the ground up. Did brawl reuse melee assets? I dunno. You tel me. Was it in the same engine? Did it have all of the same characters, animations and stages from the previous game? Somehow i doubt it did, and there you have your answer.

Ultimate doesn't just reuse Smash 4's assets though, they're clearly upgraded. Smash Ultimate is differentiated from Smash 4 in basically every way that series entries have always been differentiated from their predecessors; new graphics, new content, different mechanics. It's a straight, iterative sequel built on the framework of its predecessor, like most sequels in the industry, like Mario Kart or COD.

 

It's the same models and stages from the previous games. If they are a bit touched up it makes no difference. It's not the first time it's happened that a new version retouches the graphics. It's the same engine, the same models albeit a bit touched up, the same stages, the same animations. Also, stop saying it's new graphics, it's not. Just plainly false. If you add a few polygons to an existing model you don't magically have "new graphics" . It's not new content, it's expanded content. The old one is still there. It's not different mechanics, it's added mechanics, wich again is different. You don't have a new game, you have the exact same base game with added mechanics. That is the definition of a new version, like the name doesn't make it painfully obvious. Tell you what, i'm not interested in this conversation anymore. Hear it from people who are FGC proffesionals and developer: They call it smash 4.5. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSaoXYEoRxg Now you go figure out why that is if you don't want to listen to me.

Nem said:
curl-6 said:

Ultimate doesn't just reuse Smash 4's assets though, they're clearly upgraded. Smash Ultimate is differentiated from Smash 4 in basically every way that series entries have always been differentiated from their predecessors; new graphics, new content, different mechanics. It's a straight, iterative sequel built on the framework of its predecessor, like most sequels in the industry, like Mario Kart or COD.

It's the same models and stages from the previous games. If they are a bit touched up it makes no difference. It's not the first time it's happened that a new version retouches the graphics. It's the same engine, the same models albeit a bit touched up, the same stages, the same animations. Also, stop saying it's new graphics, it's not. Just plainly false. If you add a few polygons to an existing model you don't magically have "new graphics" . It's not new content, it's expanded content. The old one is still there. It's not different mechanics, it's added mechanics, wich again is different. You don't have a new games, you have the exact same base game with added mechanics. That is the definition of a new version, like the name doesn't make it painfully obvious. Tell you what, i'm not interested in this conversation anymore. Hear it from people who are FGC proffesionals and developer: They call it smash 4.5. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSaoXYEoRxg Now you go figure out why that is if you don't want to listen to me.

Upgrading existing assets is a standard practice in the development of sequels. You think COD Modern Warfare 2 or Killzone 3 built all the gun models again from scratch? 

It's not just additional mechanics layered on top of the old either, pre-existing mechanics from 4 have been removed or radically changed. Again, the COD games have perks and mechanics (and guns and maps) that carry over from prior games with modifications, does that mean Black Ops 4 is a port of Black Ops 1? 

Your logic would define the majority of video game sequels as ports.



It's no use debating this, we all saw the game, nothing anyone says will change what we see. What you wanna call it doesn't matter anyway, the game will likely be good by any measure. I just learned that the best stage ever a.k.a. Mushroom Kingdom II is back, so it's already my new favorite Smash game!



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Man, everywhere I see on the internet there's this exact debate.
Nintendo (as usual) destroying the internet for stupid reasons.



Nintendo and PC gamer

outlawauron said:

It's a port with new content (like DOA5: Last Round or Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3). When a fighting game gets released on new consoles, it would normally include all the DLC and some new bonus content to entice people. I saw nothing outside larger roster and stages that would imply it's a new game. If it an entirely new game, then they certainly cut a lot of corners as it looks exactly like the Wii U game.

What is with all the changes to fighter and stage models and to the moveset. They said the ultra smashes were all overhauled to bring you back in the action faster. Perfect block has changed and so on. That means for more than 70 fighters readjusting and rebalancing the moves. And bringing back all the fighters from pre-HD eras is more than just adding the DLC.



3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

my greatest games: 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023

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Sakurai spent 25 minutes explaining how the game was new and there is still people arguing it's a port.



Shiken said:
It seems like just as much a new game as any other Smash game. Those who call it a port simply want to believe it is for one reason or another. Some are just skeptical due to the vast amount of WiiU ports we have already received this year.

Yeah. With all the returning fighters from pre-HD eras (which means they couldn't use the preexistant models and animations) Ultimate has more new fighters than Smash for WiiU had.



3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

my greatest games: 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023

10 years greatest game event!

bets: [peak year] [+], [1], [2], [3], [4]

It's an ultimate port hence the name.

And that's fine.