They obviously killed her girlfriend and she's on a revenge mission. Wheres the agenda again? I dont get it.

This place surprised me the other day. I got banned for saying i would be pissed as a gears of war fan for them going with a female lead in a series that got famous being a dude bro shooter. Gears of War has always been a testosterone-laced, hardcore, gory, steroid-fueled, third-person shooter with chainsaw massacres and plenty of locker room talk from the mostly refrigerator-sized all-male leads, it's basically like replacing lara with marcus, in tomb raider, just doesn't fit the tone for series imo.

As for resetera, IT'S MUCH WORSE THEN old neogaf, it actually makes neogaf look like vgchartz.

You got banned here for that? Can you link your post, I'm curious to see which mod did that?

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8823867 It was one week as well, but cgi changed to 3 days at least.

Yeah, that's really weird reason for ban, whether or not someone agrees with your post.

I'm glad there isn't one clear political agenda and propaganda on this site. I hate the extremes of both sides

Although I'm not as convinced that the in-game scenario described above is "obvious", I do think that if the relationship in question were between a male lead character and a female NPC, we indeed would not be having this conversation because there would be no controversy.

It’s not an “agenda”, that is their idea of normalcy. Intersectionality, victimology, social justice or cosmic justice whatever you want to call it. They are core principles, the very fiber of their existence. These people are dedicated to these core principles and that makes it worse than an agenda. Much worse lol. They aren’t pushing an agenda, they aren’t smart enough to do that. It’s just blindly ignorant people echoing off of each other.

They found a way to get what they want though. Ironically through the actions of gamergate, attacking a company’s advertising and such. The way gamergate “fought” was the origin of these retarded tactics. They paved the way for this garbage. No POC representation? Dev why are you so racist? Boycott. No women representation? Oh there is a woman but she’s a trope. Dev why are you so sexist? Boycott. No gay representation? Dev why are you so homophobic? Boycott. It’s not an agenda though, these stupid people actually believe this shit because at their very core principles they believe they are being wronged by society. It’s societies fault they suck and that’s why it’s okay to burn down your own neighborhood if it’s in the name of cosmic justice. Game developers widely overestimate their numbers though. A large number of devs being in California probably doesn’t help, what a shit show. Most gamers including myself couldn’t give a crap about any of that though. And if you can’t see that going on then you are probably a part of it.

I feel I have to post this because I find it extraordinary. During my ban someone wrote a long reply once again accusing me of being misogynistic because I said the kiss was agenda driven. It was nothing to do with the kiss. The response shows just how tone deaf some of these people are and it's mindblowing to me:

I PMed the person and wrote:

My concern had nothing to do with the kiss itself. I even pointed out the kiss in Left Behind was the most moving scene I've ever seen in a video game. I was talking about the 'mirroring', which is a technique used in constructing a narrative. I said it FELT (not 'was'. I chose the word carefully.) agenda driven or 'contrived' ONLY in that regard. [Obviously referring to the mirroring]

We go from 'they should fear you' to stabbing a man in the neck. There is no doubt whatsoever those two scenes are linked deliberately to mirror men fearing her as a relationship threat to men fearing her physically. The only question was whether it was indeed agenda driven to pander to a certain demographic or whether it's a legitimate scene but without context. I'm not certain. For me it was an unfortunate place to start the demo and I'm now seeing TLOU pop up in Youtube vids about SJWs, which was why I was concerned.

I've just been banned for a week for wrong think.

The persons response:

Alright, so...where to start. 

First off, you didn't get banned for 'wrong think'. You got banned for trying reframe a gay kiss as a political move on part of the developers with the insinuation that this is a bad thing. And you feel this is justified just because you're trying to emphasize that this is merely how you 'FEEL'. The reason this is banworthy is twofold. First, we have insisting you 'feel' against all reason isn't really something positive in itself. It usually doesn't lead to interesting discussion, and at it's worst can have harmful consequences. As an example, police officers shooting black men because they 'felt' threatened. A lot of people feel that lack of prayer in schools is the reason that shootings happen there. So if you're going to insist that there is something really wrong with two gay characters kissing, you need to have something better in your arsenal than how you feel. Because when you get down to it, if Ellie wasn't gay and she had been revealed to have been kissing a guy, you wouldn't be here talking about how you 'feel' Naughty Dog is pushing the straight agenda on you. It'd just be a kiss, and the contrast between romantic intimacy and survialist violence wouldn't be questioned. Instead, you 'feel' that there is some kind of hatred of men coming from something has been used many times before in all sorts of media, for no other reason than that the this instance happens to include gay characters. 

Second, even once we get passed that and were to agree that there is an 'agenda' at play here, you still don't don't really have much backing up why this is a bad thing. That's what a large part of my response to you was about, that there is ALWAYS an agenda at play when you are making art. All art is influenced by your life and political views are as much part of life as any other major cultural factor. If this was Naughty Dog saying to the world "Gay people are people too and they deserve representation.", then I have no issue with them playing out their 'agenda' the same way I don't think their heavy handed "The Indiana Jones movies were cool" agenda in Uncharted was a bad thing. 

Third, your personal background isn't the validation you think it is. Kanye is a black man who thinks slavery was a choice the black community choose to make. Ann Coulter is a woman and a misogynist. Milo Yiannopoulos is a gay man who is against gay rights. It's pretty apparent that the toxicity of bigotry seeps into the victims of it as much as the perpetrators. Regardless of who you are, what you were judged here by is how you articulated your feelings and what you did was try to frame something innocuous as misandrogynistic. I said that I think it's because you're either bullshitting or you're just not used to gay representation in media, either of which are still the two strongest probabilities imo. 

Anyway, if you want to start up this conversation again, I'd rather you do it in the Last of Us thread where it's not just me that sees your response. If you sincerely believe in what you felt and that it wasn't homophobic, you've had a week to think of a better way to articulate those feelings besides "Ellie killing a dude after being hit on by a girl means the game hates men". Era isn't unfair from what I've seen, so if you have a better argument here than "i'm not a homophobe, but...", so by all means, let everyone know.

There's seriously something wrong with these people. It doesn't matter whether I'm right or wrong, the very fact this person has totally ignored what I just said and then goes off on this ridiculous rant shows an unhealthy level of SJW. I also get the feeling this person wants me to continue the conversation in the thread to get me banned again. Fuckin' hell, Resetera is far worse than I thought. 

So what agenda would that be? I'll repeat it again because people seem to be struggling to understand: It's about the mirroring, not the kiss. Mirroring is a technique that is used in narrative which flicks between two opposite themes. From a cold environment to a hot environment. From the death of a loved one to the birth of an infant. Right, you got that? Let's move on (and forget about the kiss). We move into the scene and have the line 'they should fear you'. This refers to jealously or love. During the kiss (ignore the kiss it's just a mechanism for the mirroring. Camera zooms in/ camera zooms out. Transition completed. Mirroring accomplished). The next scene is of Ellie stabbing a man in the neck. We've moved from love to hate (the theme of TLOU2). This is clearly deliberate. 

The problem I see with people trying to discuss this and getting it wrong is they themselves can't get around Ellie being gay or the kiss. The kiss doesn't matter and neither does the fact Ellie is gay. Are you still following? I hope you took that in. If Ellie was a man, I would still have the same problem. Are you still with me? The line 'they should fear you' would still mean the same and stabbing the man in the neck would still be mirroring.