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Forums - Politics Discussion - US Supreme Court: Christian baker does not have to bake 'the gay cake'

Maxosaurus-rex said:
Ka-pi96 said:

"your side"? You mean the side of discrimination against people based on race, gender or sexuality is wrong?

No. The side that thinks everyone should think the same way and if not then it's the government's duty to force compliance 

Isn't that what the bakery did? They imposed their beliefs on the customers. It works both ways. 



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TH3-D0S3R said:
Mr_No said:

I'm not gonna take the easy way out and say it won't happen. Heck, what you mentioned does have a chance of happening. Crazier and more ludicrous things have happened in America. Yes, Christians are diminishing in numbers at this point, but it won't stop religious-based discrimination from happening in both sides. For example, in your same hypothetical future, an atheist baker based on a small conservative town decides he wants to turn down several cakes for Christian weddings. Instead of the customers forcing him to bake it through law, they could happily go to other bakeries in town. They all know about the atheist shop owner who defined his religious stance by promoting non-religion and they'll look for someone else who can give them a better service. Either he makes a compromise or moves out to another place where only atheists will be buying his cakes. It's a free market so he can do whatever he wants, even if it's harmful for his finances.

And like Cobretti here, the more the extremists on both sides let themselves be known, the more they'll get mocked at by both religious and secular citizens.

Again, I'm not saying it won't happen. But it's just a hypothesis, a "what if", a chance.

Also, I find the bolded premise quite curious because I thought atheists, by definition, are against organized religion and won't consider themselves to be part of one.

As someone who believes in a sort of greater force (a being and not necessarily the textbook Christian God) and agrees with proper Christian principles, most atheists I've seen don't even ponder the thought. For the most part they just live their lives without giving two shits about any religion, let alone one specific one. I enjoy talking to these guys, because their reasoning comes through research which is fascinating to me. I grew up in a Christian household, and I wont consider myself agnostic, but I am around Jesus Freaks on the daily, so I talk to people like this whenever I can.

I don't think Christianity will die outright like some people tend to think here, mostly because if it can get through Roman persecution, it wont just die out. However, I can say this:

You're not a true atheist if you're fed up about Christianity and other religions and constantly saying how bad these are and how they're gonna die soon. If you feel you are in a group and do it out of spite, I just see you as a denialist under an atheist charade. True atheists for the most part act on their own and don't force their biases on others, which is something that is immensely respectable. 

I am an atheist and you are right, I dont even think about religion and just get on with my life. I don't try to impose to religious people, I let people believe whatever they want to belive. The only time I will get involved is when something like this. If it was me and a shop refused to make my wedding cake last year for religious reasons, that would be the only time religion would be a factor in my life. Otherwise live and let live. I wish the bakery had thought the same. Live and let live.  I wont impose my atheism on people, if religious people won't impose their views on me. I wouldn't refuse a religious person in my shop, as their views have no bearing on my life. 



Yeah, this gay couple did never seem like a good example for human decency either.
Instead of just going to another bakery these dudes got trampled on their ego so much they wanted to destroy someone's livelyhood and reputation over it,disgusting and i am not really sure what side the better human beings are on in this case.



adslife said:
Maxosaurus-rex said:

No. The side that thinks everyone should think the same way and if not then it's the government's duty to force compliance 

Isn't that what the bakery did? They imposed their beliefs on the customers. It works both ways. 

No, the baker still can't say "You're a gay customer, so therefore you can't have a cake". However, the customer can't force the baker to do something they don't feel comfortable with. Such as making a gay cake. It's like if I try to sue McDonald's for not making tacos. You can't force companies to make something they don't feel comfortable with.



Immersiveunreality said:
Yeah, this gay couple did never seem like a good example for human decency either.
Instead of just going to another bakery these dudes got trampled on their ego so much they wanted to destroy someone's livelyhood and reputation over it,disgusting and i am not really sure what side the better human beings are on in this case.

That's capitalism and free speech. The Christian bakery has the right to be cocks about their business, but when the world finds out about it then they're going to be treated like the dicks that they are.



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I'm an atheist, so if that fact came up in their bakery, they might refuse me my cake as well.
I think they have every right to choose their customers, and I have the right to take my business elsewhere. It really is as simple as that. It's freedom. Anything other would be problematic.
Why would I even want a cake from someone who really doesn't want to make one for me? I'd rather want one from someone who is eager to please me as a customer.



Dante9 said:
I'm an atheist, so if that fact came up in their bakery, they might refuse me my cake as well.
I think they have every right to choose their customers, and I have the right to take my business elsewhere. It really is as simple as that. It's freedom. Anything other would be problematic.
Why would I even want a cake from someone who really doesn't want to make one for me? I'd rather want one from someone who is eager to please me as a customer.

I mostly agree and maybe there are valid arguments about why there should be some protections of certain groups have access to services.

But this is the baker was much more reasonable than he was given credit for. He didn't refuse to sell anything to the gay couple per se, they just didn't want to make a custom cake for a gay wedding is my understanding.

There was no shortage of people willing to make a cake for the gay couple which is great. This couple just wanted to hassle someone not interested in doing it.

Fuck the atheist bullshit, its about freedom in general and part of that is not being forced to something against their religion. Nobody had their safety or life was genuinely impacted by the refusal of a stupid cake, just a big waste of time.



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Jumpin said:
Immersiveunreality said:
Yeah, this gay couple did never seem like a good example for human decency either.
Instead of just going to another bakery these dudes got trampled on their ego so much they wanted to destroy someone's livelyhood and reputation over it,disgusting and i am not really sure what side the better human beings are on in this case.

That's capitalism and free speech. The Christian bakery has the right to be cocks about their business, but when the world finds out about it then they're going to be treated like the dicks that they are.

If i was gay and they refused to make a cake i would prob been a bit upset but also understanding about the beliefs of that baker and just moved on, this is just pityfull  and dumb vengeance .



Ka-pi96 said:
Snoopy said:

No, the baker still can't say "You're a gay customer, so therefore you can't have a cake". However, the customer can't force the baker to do something they don't feel comfortable with. Such as making a gay cake. It's like if I try to sue McDonald's for not making tacos. You can't force companies to make something they don't feel comfortable with.

That's not a very good comparison. Bakery's make cakes anyway. It wasn't what they were making, it was who they were making it for.

A better comparison would be McDonald's refusing to serve you because you're black. Do you think that would be ok?

Not really they asked the Baker for a custom product. Not something which was already on the shelf/chart. He has every right to refuse that. He was not unwilling to sell anything to the couple because they where gay.

He refused to make a custom gay wedding cake, because it probably did not align with his views. If he denied service all together it would be a different story though. 

Which to be fair he has every right too, as the US supreme court judged. In the end it was a minor inconvienience for the gsy couple since the next Baker would probably bake that cake. 



Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

The law may be on his side but I don't understand how anyone can defend this asshole for being homophobic.