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does microsoft afford to release the Xbox after the PS5?

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yvanjean said:

I said they could do it, if you don't understand the difference between could and should you might want to look it up. Beside, if they give out a free console it would come with a contract obviously Microsoft already explored a subsidized business model with the 360. Subscription base model like Xbox gamepass and Xbox live is the future of Microsoft. If they can bundle Console, Gamepass and Xbox live and lock in people in long term contract, lowering the barrier of entry into the eco system they will certainly look at that business model. 
The biggest competitor to PS5 is going to be PS4 Pro .... people are slow to make the jump and price really matters. A cheap Xbox one X holiday can sell more units then a new PS5 +$499.
You do understand that Microsoft doesn't need to be better then Sony?? They can have major financial success being 2nd or 3rd if you count Nintendo. Beside Microsoft focus is mainly on America they almost have 50% of the market if you only look at Sony and Microsoft... WW Sony has a 4 to 1 advantage over Microsoft, but Microsoft has room to grow. Microsoft focus should be to win back North America with next gen consoles. 
Microsoft for next gen need more exclusives, it will take time and it all depends on when Sony will release the PS5. Microsoft next consoles need to release with great launch titles and a staple of games on the way that will decide how much of early advantage Sony will have over Microsoft.  Microsoft can have a slight power advantage over Sony when Sony release the PS5 information for similar cost. 
Here some stats to back up my claims: 
In the cash rankings, Microsoft is second among those four companies, with $126 billion in cash and equivalents. Alphabet, the Google parent, has $92 billion in cash, and Amazon comes in at $22 billion among the four.May 2, 2017

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-05-02-microsoft-to-launch-USD99-xbox-360-subsidised-by-monthly-subscription-report

The PS3 was cheaper than the PS4 when the latter launched, but that didn't stop the PS4 from selling spectacularly. In addition, the PS4 has been outselling the XB1 even when the latter has been cheaper. Your conclusion that the Xbox One X can sell more than the PS5 on the basis that the former is cheaper has multiple holes, as a result.

As I already stated in my response to you (in which you've apparently decided to glance over), a hypothetical situation where the PS5 gets a year headstart would allow Sony to grab a good chunk of the Xbox fanbase. Microsoft can release a more powerful console a year later, but if the consumers are satisfied enough with what the PS5 offers, that would end up hurting the potential revenue Microsoft can earn from hardware, software, and services. Also, your statements about power miss the point of why it was emphasized at the beginning of this gen. The reason why people made a big deal about the PS4 being more powerful than the XB1 was because the former was initially more powerful and less expensive.

And what if the PS5 starts stronger than the PS4? The PS4's launch library was not particularly great. Knack's MC was in the 50s and Killzone Shadowfall's MC was in the 70s. Considering that Sony's 1st party studios have found their groove, it's not out of the question that the PS5 may launch with a significantly better library. And then, we also have to take into account the possible backwards compatibility with PS4 games. That would provide an instant library for PS5 owners to start with and perhaps, even provide substantial enhancements like the PS4 Pro. It would also help publishers sell more copies of their games and not have to worry about them getting left behind like what we saw with Puppeteer. After two holiday seasons, the PS4 sold 18.5 million units. That would be quite a headstart for Sony if the PS5 gets a year headstart (which I strongly doubt will happen, btw. I think the PS5 and XB2 will release simultaneously).



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Aslong as the Hardware is Stronger than PS5 Yes they can afford to release it before or after PS5 since Microsoft is not affraid to make a 500 dollar console .



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Yes, MS will release another Xbox. But I don't think it's going to be a traditional console.
They are going to release something similar to Steam Machines but with Windows Live. One market and ecosystem; a console that gives access and displays from a TV.



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Gaming on: PS4 Pro, Switch, SNES Mini, Wii U, PC (i5-7400, GTX 1060)

Aura7541 said:
yvanjean said:

I said they could do it, if you don't understand the difference between could and should you might want to look it up. Beside, if they give out a free console it would come with a contract obviously Microsoft already explored a subsidized business model with the 360. Subscription base model like Xbox gamepass and Xbox live is the future of Microsoft. If they can bundle Console, Gamepass and Xbox live and lock in people in long term contract, lowering the barrier of entry into the eco system they will certainly look at that business model. 
The biggest competitor to PS5 is going to be PS4 Pro .... people are slow to make the jump and price really matters. A cheap Xbox one X holiday can sell more units then a new PS5 +$499.
You do understand that Microsoft doesn't need to be better then Sony?? They can have major financial success being 2nd or 3rd if you count Nintendo. Beside Microsoft focus is mainly on America they almost have 50% of the market if you only look at Sony and Microsoft... WW Sony has a 4 to 1 advantage over Microsoft, but Microsoft has room to grow. Microsoft focus should be to win back North America with next gen consoles. 
Microsoft for next gen need more exclusives, it will take time and it all depends on when Sony will release the PS5. Microsoft next consoles need to release with great launch titles and a staple of games on the way that will decide how much of early advantage Sony will have over Microsoft.  Microsoft can have a slight power advantage over Sony when Sony release the PS5 information for similar cost. 
Here some stats to back up my claims: 
In the cash rankings, Microsoft is second among those four companies, with $126 billion in cash and equivalents. Alphabet, the Google parent, has $92 billion in cash, and Amazon comes in at $22 billion among the four.May 2, 2017

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-05-02-microsoft-to-launch-USD99-xbox-360-subsidised-by-monthly-subscription-report

The PS3 was cheaper than the PS4 when the latter launched, but that didn't stop the PS4 from selling spectacularly. In addition, the PS4 has been outselling the XB1 even when the latter has been cheaper. Your conclusion that the Xbox One X can sell more than the PS5 on the basis that the former is cheaper has multiple holes, as a result.

As I already stated in my response to you (in which you've apparently decided to glance over), a hypothetical situation where the PS5 gets a year headstart would allow Sony to grab a good chunk of the Xbox fanbase. Microsoft can release a more powerful console a year later, but if the consumers are satisfied enough with what the PS5 offers, that would end up hurting the potential revenue Microsoft can earn from hardware, software, and services. Also, your statements about power miss the point of why it was emphasized at the beginning of this gen. The reason why people made a big deal about the PS4 being more powerful than the XB1 was because the former was initially more powerful and less expensive.

And what if the PS5 starts stronger than the PS4? The PS4's launch library was not particularly great. Knack's MC was in the 50s and Killzone Shadowfall's MC was in the 70s. Considering that Sony's 1st party studios have found their groove, it's not out of the question that the PS5 may launch with a significantly better library. And then, we also have to take into account the possible backwards compatibility with PS4 games. That would provide an instant library for PS5 owners to start with and perhaps, even provide substantial enhancements like the PS4 Pro. It would also help publishers sell more copies of their games and not have to worry about them getting left behind like what we saw with Puppeteer. After two holiday seasons, the PS4 sold 18.5 million units. That would be quite a headstart for Sony if the PS5 gets a year headstart (which I strongly doubt will happen, btw. I think the PS5 and XB2 will release simultaneously).

First of all I am well aware that PS4 is the best selling console in gaming history after the PS2. PS5 will have a hard time to match the amazing sales PS4 manage with Nintendo having recovered and Microsoft really stepping up their game and investment in gaming.  

It all depends on how long Sony wait to release PS5 .... I think we can agree that XB2 will either release simultaneously or after the PS5. 
The gap between release will depends entirely on when Sony release the next console. I don't think Microsoft will release a new consoles before Holiday 2020. If PS5 release in 2019 they will probably have a year advantage. But, the power advantage over Xbox one X won't be has significant. I don't think PS5 will come bundle with VR but if it does that might also increase its price.  Power is important in term of marketing but price even more so. The facts that Microsoft release a less powerful console at a higher price point just show how stupid Don Mattrick was has leader of the Xbox division. Sony should be forever grateful to him. Sadly for Sony, He's no longer around and Phil Spencer will give them a much bigger challenge. Microsoft has to really grow their worldwide presence before they will can ever Challenge Sony.... They will probably never take over Japan market unless Sony were to get out of the gaming business. But, if Microsoft can take back North America the numbers might get interesting for next gen. 

Can't compare the PS4 launch to PS5 .... The PS3 and Xbox 360 were stagnant and there wasn't mid gen release like we got with the Ps4 Pro and Xbox one X. The jump in power between Ps5 and Xbox one X won't be anywhere near what it was for Ps3 to Ps4. There simply no way the PS5 can do better then the PS4, Nintendo was failure with the WiiU, Microsoft was releasing a less powerfull machine for more $$$. When the PS5 launch they will have to compete against Nintendo, very cheap PS4 Pro/Xbox one X and what ever Microsoft is planning.



Tommy Jean, CPA, CGA

AlfredoTurkey said:

It will launch head to head. Those of you who think that Sony will destroy them again need to look at your history. Look at the generation's starting from NES until now. How many times has the same company dominated twice? Just once. That's it. In all of gaming history, only one time has the same company dominated two times in a row in home consoles.

Things change. What happened in the eight generation is not automatically going to carry over. It COULD but the odds are against it. I fully expect Microsoft to take Sony on next generation with this in mind and not back down.

Nahhh, Sony has dominated not only twice in a row but also coming back to dominate a third time while the 360 hardly dominated the PS3 at all. At least when SNES beat Genesis it was by a considerable amount. 360 and PS3 were practically at a draw worldwide.

I think all bets are on the PS5 taking it and sony dominating two gens in a row for the SECOND time. The thing is, I think Xbox screwed up a little too much and Sony has learned so much in the wake of all that. Sony has become such a force in the gaming industry with HUGE first party titles.



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yvanjean said:

First of all I am well aware that PS4 is the best selling console in gaming history after the PS2. PS5 will have a hard time to match the amazing sales PS4 manage with Nintendo having recovered and Microsoft really stepping up their game and investment in gaming.  

It all depends on how long Sony wait to release PS5 .... I think we can agree that XB2 will either release simultaneously or after the PS5. 
The gap between release will depends entirely on when Sony release the next console. I don't think Microsoft will release a new consoles before Holiday 2020. If PS5 release in 2019 they will probably have a year advantage. But, the power advantage over Xbox one X won't be has significant. I don't think PS5 will come bundle with VR but if it does that might also increase its price.  Power is important in term of marketing but price even more so. The facts that Microsoft release a less powerful console at a higher price point just show how stupid Don Mattrick was has leader of the Xbox division. Sony should be forever grateful to him. Sadly for Sony, He's no longer around and Phil Spencer will give them a much bigger challenge. Microsoft has to really grow their worldwide presence before they will can ever Challenge Sony.... They will probably never take over Japan market unless Sony were to get out of the gaming business. But, if Microsoft can take back North America the numbers might get interesting for next gen. 

Can't compare the PS4 launch to PS5 .... The PS3 and Xbox 360 were stagnant and there wasn't mid gen release like we got with the Ps4 Pro and Xbox one X. The jump in power between Ps5 and Xbox one X won't be anywhere near what it was for Ps3 to Ps4. There simply no way the PS5 can do better then the PS4, Nintendo was failure with the WiiU, Microsoft was releasing a less powerfull machine for more $$$. When the PS5 launch they will have to compete against Nintendo, very cheap PS4 Pro/Xbox one X and what ever Microsoft is planning.

I wasn't questioning your awareness of the PS4's sales performance. I referenced the PS4's sales performance in spite of the PS3 (and also the 360) being cheaper as a counterpoint to your argument that the XB1X will sell better than the PS5 due to cheaper price. Arguing that the PS5 will struggle to match the PS4's sales performance because Nintendo has greatly recovered and Microsoft is stepping up their investment in gaming falls short. The PS4 is still selling very well in spite of Nintendo and Microsoft stepping up. In addition, I hinted that if Sony manages to retain all of its active users and PS+ subs, then the PS4 to PS5 transition will be much smoother than the PS3 to PS4 transition.

The power advantage over the XB1X will be significant even if the PS5 is released in 2019. The CPU will be far better than Jaguar in every shape and form. Ryzen runs circles around Jaguar in terms of energy efficiency, clock speed, IPC, and threads per core. Zen 2, which is the CPU architecture the PS5 will likely use, will be even better than Ryzen. GDDR6 will have far greater bandwidth than GDDR5 and the PS5 will also have more RAM than the XB1X. Lastly, the XB1X's GPU is based on the Polaris architecture (I think) while the PS5 will likely be using Navi, which is two GPU gens apart. You don't just look at the amount of teraflops and call it a day.

Why should Sony be forever be grateful Don Mattrick? You do realize that the PS4 still outsells the XB1 when the latter is cheaper. We have seen countless times where the XB1 is $50 cheaper than the PS4, but the PS4 still beats the XB1 in NPD. As for Phil Spencer, we're already 4.5 years into this generation, but Microsoft's 1st party software is greatly underwhelming. In addition, he's more focused on GAAS which emphasizes long-term revenue from subscriptions and microtransactions. There are several 3rd party publishers who develop multiplayer games and gain revenue through microtransactions. Sony gets a platform cut from their revenue while the company focuses on singleplayer story-focused games to push hardware sales and differentiate from the competition.

And yes, you can compare the PS4's launch to the PS5's. There will be differences in which I already named some of them in my previous comment, but that doesn't mean you can't compare them. You assert that the jump from the XB1X to PS5 won't be that great, but I already showed you where your reasoning falls short. You also assert that "there's simply no way the PS5 can do as well as the PS4", but you don't have much evidence to support that. Note that I never said that the PS5 will do as well as the PS4, but I suggested that there is a possibility that it can. One of the reasons I mentioned was backwards compatibility with PS4 games. Another reason I also mentioned was Sony's 1st party studios finding their rhythm which may allow the PS5 to launch with a substantially better library and we may not have to wait 3-4 years for the 1st party games to really pick up in quantity and quality.



Aura7541 said:
yvanjean said:

First of all I am well aware that PS4 is the best selling console in gaming history after the PS2. PS5 will have a hard time to match the amazing sales PS4 manage with Nintendo having recovered and Microsoft really stepping up their game and investment in gaming.  

It all depends on how long Sony wait to release PS5 .... I think we can agree that XB2 will either release simultaneously or after the PS5. 
The gap between release will depends entirely on when Sony release the next console. I don't think Microsoft will release a new consoles before Holiday 2020. If PS5 release in 2019 they will probably have a year advantage. But, the power advantage over Xbox one X won't be has significant. I don't think PS5 will come bundle with VR but if it does that might also increase its price.  Power is important in term of marketing but price even more so. The facts that Microsoft release a less powerful console at a higher price point just show how stupid Don Mattrick was has leader of the Xbox division. Sony should be forever grateful to him. Sadly for Sony, He's no longer around and Phil Spencer will give them a much bigger challenge. Microsoft has to really grow their worldwide presence before they will can ever Challenge Sony.... They will probably never take over Japan market unless Sony were to get out of the gaming business. But, if Microsoft can take back North America the numbers might get interesting for next gen. 

Can't compare the PS4 launch to PS5 .... The PS3 and Xbox 360 were stagnant and there wasn't mid gen release like we got with the Ps4 Pro and Xbox one X. The jump in power between Ps5 and Xbox one X won't be anywhere near what it was for Ps3 to Ps4. There simply no way the PS5 can do better then the PS4, Nintendo was failure with the WiiU, Microsoft was releasing a less powerfull machine for more $$$. When the PS5 launch they will have to compete against Nintendo, very cheap PS4 Pro/Xbox one X and what ever Microsoft is planning.

I wasn't questioning your awareness of the PS4's sales performance. I referenced the PS4's sales performance in spite of the PS3 (and also the 360) being cheaper as a counterpoint to your argument that the XB1X will sell better than the PS5 due to cheaper price. Arguing that the PS5 will struggle to match the PS4's sales performance because Nintendo has greatly recovered and Microsoft is stepping up their investment in gaming falls short. The PS4 is still selling very well in spite of Nintendo and Microsoft stepping up. In addition, I hinted that if Sony manages to retain all of its active users and PS+ subs, then the PS4 to PS5 transition will be much smoother than the PS3 to PS4 transition.

The power advantage over the XB1X will be significant even if the PS5 is released in 2019. The CPU will be far better than Jaguar in every shape and form. Ryzen runs circles around Jaguar in terms of energy efficiency, clock speed, IPC, and threads per core. Zen 2, which is the CPU architecture the PS5 will likely use, will be even better than Ryzen. GDDR6 will have far greater bandwidth than GDDR5 and the PS5 will also have more RAM than the XB1X. Lastly, the XB1X's GPU is based on the Polaris architecture (I think) while the PS5 will likely be using Navi, which is two GPU gens apart. You don't just look at the amount of teraflops and call it a day.

Why should Sony be forever be grateful Don Mattrick? You do realize that the PS4 still outsells the XB1 when the latter is cheaper. We have seen countless times where the XB1 is $50 cheaper than the PS4, but the PS4 still beats the XB1 in NPD. As for Phil Spencer, we're already 4.5 years into this generation, but Microsoft's 1st party software is greatly underwhelming. In addition, he's more focused on GAAS which emphasizes long-term revenue from subscriptions and microtransactions. There are several 3rd party publishers who develop multiplayer games and gain revenue through microtransactions. Sony gets a platform cut from their revenue while the company focuses on singleplayer story-focused games to push hardware sales and differentiate from the competition.

And yes, you can compare the PS4's launch to the PS5's. There will be differences in which I already named some of them in my previous comment, but that doesn't mean you can't compare them. You assert that the jump from the XB1X to PS5 won't be that great, but I already showed you where your reasoning falls short. You also assert that "there's simply no way the PS5 can do as well as the PS4", but you don't have much evidence to support that. Note that I never said that the PS5 will do as well as the PS4, but I suggested that there is a possibility that it can. One of the reasons I mentioned was backwards compatibility with PS4 games. Another reason I also mentioned was Sony's 1st party studios finding their rhythm which may allow the PS5 to launch with a substantially better library and we may not have to wait 3-4 years for the 1st party games to really pick up in quantity and quality.

Microsoft Xbox division under Don Mattrick was a mess....Don Mattrick manage to destroy most of the goodwill that Microsoft had built with Xbox 360. Don Mattrick failed to compete in Hardware, software and price with the Xb1.  XB1 division manage to turn a profit but can't compare ion terms of numbers with Sony world wide, they lost most of the progress they made with Xbox 360. 

Microsoft has dealt with hardware being under powered compare to PS4 and for the most part align their price to match Sony. PS4 will have the software dominance this entire generation and not much XB1X can do to fix this this generation. Software remain the most important issue they need to address if they really want to take on Sony. This will take time and more reason for Microsoft to delay the launch of XB2. 

When the PS4 launch the PS3 had been on the market for 7 years. Consoles gamers were ready to make the jump to new hardware. Sony and Microsoft have now change the game with mid-gen upgrade. From now till the release of the PS5, Some PS4 owners or new adopter will make the jump to PS4 Pro. Sure the power of PS5 will be much greater than Ps4 Pro/Xb1x but in term of graphic you will be comparing Checkboard 4k/ 30 fps vs Native 4k/ 60 fps. You can expect that most 1st party Sony games to run on both the PS4/PS5 especially if PS5 release in 2019. The willingness to jump to PS5 won't be has great especially for PS4 Pro owners. 



Tommy Jean, CPA, CGA

yvanjean said:

Microsoft Xbox division under Don Mattrick was a mess....Don Mattrick manage to destroy most of the goodwill that Microsoft had built with Xbox 360. Don Mattrick failed to compete in Hardware, software and price with the Xb1.  XB1 division manage to turn a profit but can't compare ion terms of numbers with Sony world wide, they lost most of the progress they made with Xbox 360. 

Microsoft has dealt with hardware being under powered compare to PS4 and for the most part align their price to match Sony. PS4 will have the software dominance this entire generation and not much XB1X can do to fix this this generation. Software remain the most important issue they need to address if they really want to take on Sony. This will take time and more reason for Microsoft to delay the launch of XB2. 

When the PS4 launch the PS3 had been on the market for 7 years. Consoles gamers were ready to make the jump to new hardware. Sony and Microsoft have now change the game with mid-gen upgrade. From now till the release of the PS5, Some PS4 owners or new adopter will make the jump to PS4 Pro. Sure the power of PS5 will be much greater than Ps4 Pro/Xb1x but in term of graphic you will be comparing Checkboard 4k/ 30 fps vs Native 4k/ 60 fps. You can expect that most 1st party Sony games to run on both the PS4/PS5 especially if PS5 release in 2019. The willingness to jump to PS5 won't be has great especially for PS4 Pro owners. 

Your first two paragraphs are basically retreads of your previous responses, so I see no need to repeat my points. I will add that you continue to forget that the PS4 has consistently outsold the XB1 when the latter is cheaper. Microsoft didn't just aligned their price to match Sony. They tried to undercut Sony in price to get the upper hand.

To respond to your last paragraph, I mentioned time and time again that ecosystems have become extremely important. The PS4 to PS5 transition will likely be much smoother than the PS3 to PS4 transition. For one thing, Sony will not be switching architectures which will make the learning curve for PS5 development less steep. I already mentioned the potential BC with PS4 games.

Your assertion that some PS4 or new adopter will make the jump to the PS4 Pro from now till the release of the PS5 is also a weak argument. It's a good demonstration of your lack of understanding of how the market works. The PS4 Pro appeals to the consumers who want that extra power and are part of the core audience. The core audience is also more in the know than the casual audience. When rumors and news about the PS5 become more frequent, the core audience will be less willing to buy a PS4 Pro in anticipation of the PS5. In addition, at this point in the generation, most consumers who buy a PS4 at this point are less of the core variety and a lot more price conscious. This is why the vast majority of PS4 buyers get the regular PS4.

Your other assertion that the power is Checkboard 4k/ 30 fps vs Native 4k/ 60 fps is extremely inaccurate. I already told how weak the Jaguar cores are even when the PS4 and XB1 just launched. The PS5 will likely use Zen 2, which will provide large boosts in not just clock speed, but also IPC and threads per core. A significantly more powerful CPU not just allows for higher framerates, but also more advanced AI and physics simulation. The PS5's GPU will likely have 2.5x-3x the TFLOPs of the PS4 Pro's GPU, though not all TFLOPs are created equal. If the PS5 uses the Navi architecture, then that will be two generations ahead of the Pro's Polaris-based GPU. Lastly, the PS5 will not just have more RAM, but also higher bandwidth which will allow for higher resolution textures. So to correct your comparison, it's Checkboard 4k/ 30 fps vs Native 4k/ 60 fps + better AI + better physics + better textures + other various improvements.



Aura7541 said:

Your first two paragraphs are basically retreads of your previous responses, so I see no need to repeat my points. I will add that you continue to forget that the PS4 has consistently outsold the XB1 when the latter is cheaper. Microsoft didn't just aligned their price to match Sony. They tried to undercut Sony in price to get the upper hand.

Software, Price & Hardware that is what sells console. Software being the most important factors in the buying decisions. Sony is going to dominate in term of software this entire generation. $50 or so cheaper doesn't really make up for the gap in software does it. Beside Microsoft is not cheaper they are on par at best... XB1 is less powerful than PS4 and should be cheaper and Xb1x is more expensive then the less powerful Ps4 Pro. 

To respond to your last paragraph, I mentioned time and time again that ecosystems have become extremely important. The PS4 to PS5 transition will likely be much smoother than the PS3 to PS4 transition. For one thing, Sony will not be switching architectures which will make the learning curve for PS5 development less steep. I already mentioned the potential BC with PS4 games.

How do you think PS4 Manage to grow from PS3 they grab consumer that used to be on the PC, Xbox 360 or Nintendo platform. PS5 won't be the only option when it come time to make the jump to next gen. All we know is what happen with PS4 and Xb1 and Microsoft screwed up with message (DRM &multimedia console), Kinect 2.0, price & hardware.

Your assertion that some PS4 or new adopter will make the jump to the PS4 Pro from now till the release of the PS5 is also a weak argument. It's a good demonstration of your lack of understanding of how the market works. The PS4 Pro appeals to the consumers who want that extra power and are part of the core audience. The core audience is also more in the know than the casual audience. When rumors and news about the PS5 become more frequent, the core audience will be less willing to buy a PS4 Pro in anticipation of the PS5. In addition, at this point in the generation, most consumers who buy a PS4 at this point are less of the core variety and a lot more price conscious. This is why the vast majority of PS4 buyers get the regular PS4.

Your other assertion that the power is Checkboard 4k/ 30 fps vs Native 4k/ 60 fps is extremely inaccurate. I already told how weak the Jaguar cores are even when the PS4 and XB1 just launched. The PS5 will likely use Zen 2, which will provide large boosts in not just clock speed, but also IPC and threads per core. A significantly more powerful CPU not just allows for higher framerates, but also more advanced AI and physics simulation. The PS5's GPU will likely have 2.5x-3x the TFLOPs of the PS4 Pro's GPU, though not all TFLOPs are created equal. If the PS5 uses the Navi architecture, then that will be two generations ahead of the Pro's Polaris-based GPU. Lastly, the PS5 will not just have more RAM, but also higher bandwidth which will allow for higher resolution textures. So to correct your comparison, it's Checkboard 4k/ 30 fps vs Native 4k/ 60 fps + better AI + better physics + better textures + other various improvements.

Hardcore audience tend to remain loyal and are less likely to make the jump to a new console. When PS4 release their competition was the Xb1, Wiiu and PC. Microsoft screw up their release and angered many gamers & WiiU was already a failure. Doesn't mean that just because they are core audience they will jump to the next console. So many Xbox 360 core audience made the jump to PS4. What matters though at the end of the day to be the market leader is attracting casual audience. 

You keep ignoring that PS3 to PS4 was the start of new generation vs PS4, PS4 pro to PS5, we've never had a mid-gen refresh before, this is uncharted territory. PS4 Pro & Xb1X support will continue well after the PS5 release and give much less incentive to make the jump right away to PS5/Xb2.  Also, look at the trends in gaming now, Mobile gaming is becoming more and more popular. When you get games like PubG and Fortnite running on mobile that is direct competition to consoles. We don't know anything about PS5 but are you assuming that Microsoft will do worst to compete with Sony with the Xb2? Unless Microsoft were to leave the gaming market we can expect much better from them this time around. 



Tommy Jean, CPA, CGA

yvanjean said:

Software, Price & Hardware that is what sells console. Software being the most important factors in the buying decisions. Sony is going to dominate in term of software this entire generation. $50 or so cheaper doesn't really make up for the gap in software does it. Beside Microsoft is not cheaper they are on par at best... XB1 is less powerful than PS4 and should be cheaper and Xb1x is more expensive then the less powerful Ps4 Pro. 

Microsoft is not par, at best. The XB1X was not out until November of last year, so it hasn't been in the picture for even a quarter of this generation. If you saw what happened in the US during 2015 and 2016, the PS4 consistently outsold the XB1 even though the latter was more affordable. The XB1 got a boost with the XB1S, but had a poor sales performance for most of 2017 until the XB1X came around. If you want to make comparisons, make sure all the variables are accounted for, in which you clearly did not.

yvanjean said: 

 How do you think PS4 Manage to grow from PS3 they grab consumer that used to be on the PC, Xbox 360 or Nintendo platform. PS5 won't be the only option when it come time to make the jump to next gen. All we know is what happen with PS4 and Xb1 and Microsoft screwed up with message (DRM &multimedia console), Kinect 2.0, price & hardware.

Moot point. The PS4 wasn't the only option when this generation started. You also like to blame it all on Microsoft's poor messaging when it was more than that. The PS3's software support was still pretty strong in 2013 whereas if you looked at the 360, Microsoft did not do a good job providing it software support going into this generation. That also played a factor and we're seeing something similar play out this gen, as well.

God of War and Detroit have performed very well, sales-wise. Spiderman, Medievil, and Concrete Genie are coming up later this year. Next year, there will be Days Gone, TLOU Part II, and Death Stranding. Establishing a reputation of providing good quality 1st party titles will play a significant role as Sony transitions to the PS5.

I also fail to see how this paragraph directly addresses my points of my 2nd paragraph. My counterarguments included the importance of maintenance of ecosystems, the potentially less steep learning curve for PS5 game development, and potential backwards compatibility with PS4 games. This portion of your response is ultimately a big fat red herring.

yvanjean said: 

Hardcore audience tend to remain loyal and are less likely to make the jump to a new console. When PS4 release their competition was the Xb1, Wiiu and PC. Microsoft screw up their release and angered many gamers & WiiU was already a failure. Doesn't mean that just because they are core audience they will jump to the next console. So many Xbox 360 core audience made the jump to PS4. What matters though at the end of the day to be the market leader is attracting casual audience. 

That's a good strawman fallacy because that was not what I argued at all and you completely turned away from your original assertion that PS4 owners or new adopters will jump to the PS4 Pro. Let me explain it to you again. At this point in the generation, consumers who are looking buy a console are more price-oriented. The PS4 Pro is more expensive than the PS4, so most consumers will buy the standard SKU and my conclusion is corroborated by available data.

That entire paragraph of yours does not address a single one of my counterarguments and it is largely a repetition of your 2nd paragraph, in which that paragraph is a red herring.

yvanjean said: 

You keep ignoring that PS3 to PS4 was the start of new generation vs PS4, PS4 pro to PS5, we've never had a mid-gen refresh before, this is uncharted territory. PS4 Pro & Xb1X support will continue well after the PS5 release and give much less incentive to make the jump right away to PS5/Xb2.  Also, look at the trends in gaming now, Mobile gaming is becoming more and more popular. When you get games like PubG and Fortnite running on mobile that is direct competition to consoles. We don't know anything about PS5 but are you assuming that Microsoft will do worst to compete with Sony with the Xb2? Unless Microsoft were to leave the gaming market we can expect much better from them this time around. 

And here, you claim that I'm ignoring the context of the PS3 to PS4 transition when I have not. To quote part of my previous response:

"To respond to your last paragraph, I mentioned time and time again that ecosystems have become extremely important. The PS4 to PS5 transition will likely be much smoother than the PS3 to PS4 transition. For one thing, Sony will not be switching architectures which will make the learning curve for PS5 development less steep. I already mentioned the potential BC with PS4 games."

I acknowledged the context of the PS3 to PS4 transition, but I also pointed at the differences between that and the PS4 to PS5 transition and how that may be beneficial to the PS5. You did not address a single one of my points.

The PS4 Pro and XB1X are a souped up PS4 and XB1, respectively. They are not a new generation of consoles nor do they make up most of the respective userbases. Developers make games with the PS4 and XB1 in mind and then, ramp up the resolution, framerate, and/or other features for the upgraded iterations. Why? Because the vast majority of the consumers have the standard PS4 and XB1. The XB1X has never been the base platform nor will it ever be.

If developers want to implement more advanced AI and physics while also ramping up the resolution and framerate, the PS4 and XB1, and effectively, the PS4 Pro and XB1X, will be left behind. I already told you about the potential CPU and GPU architectures the PS5 will use as well as the usage of GDDR6 RAM. If you want to make a valid counterargument, then prove to me how Zen 2, Navi, and GDDR6 will not be significant upgrades over this generation of consoles.

Your pivot to mobile trends is yet another red herring. The discussion is largely about the PS5. The bolded is yet another strawman fallacy. I said that if Sony gets a year head start with the PS5, then Sony may end up eating a chunk of the Xbox userbase before Microsoft releases the XB2. However, I clearly said that I expect the PS5 and XB2 to release simultaneously. Considering how messy your comment is overall, you're less interested in addressing my counterarguments and more concerned about responding for the sake of responding. I mean, for goodness sakes, there is a 3 day gap between your response before the one I'm quoting and the comment I made 4 days ago, and that post was also logically flawed in spite of the amount of time you had to think it over.