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John Kodera: PS4 Is Entering The Final Stages Of Its Life-Cycle.

Forums - Sony Discussion - John Kodera: PS4 Is Entering The Final Stages Of Its Life-Cycle.

VGPolyglot said:
KBG29 said:

It comes down to people buying crap products, because they watch commercials, or listen to others instead of doing their own research, and thinking about their own needs. As I said, it happens well beyond electronics and consoles. 

My biggest thing with the launch PS3, was the amount of people that bought Wii, 360, and a Blu-ray player, and complained about all the money they spent, and the dissappointment in the products. I know it is just the couple 100 people I knew at the time, but you can only here people say how they bought this Wii that the kids never touch anymore, the 360 that ended up broke, and the Blu-ray player that doesn't support movies, before you just can't stop shaking your head. It is especially irritating when people come and ask what would give me this list these features? You say well such, and such device does all of that. Then they turn around and buy a different device, and then ask what device should I get for this feature since the thing I bought doesn't have it. Then you say, well this device would be the best and the cheapest. Then they go buy a more expensive, and less cabaple device, and the cycle continues over and over. People always buying things that don't do what they want, then complaining well I spent this much and this POS still won't do what I want.

As for the PS Phone thing, I know it is not a hot idea here, and hell based on what I was just saying, it probably would end up being the same situation. However, I constantly here people saying how awesome it would be if they could play X multiplayer game on the go. I know personally, I would also like to play X Multiplayer game or X Single Player game on the go, and the best solution would be a Phone that is always connected for the online gaming, and also shares the library of games I have already bought on my console, while also sharing the same online network and and user profile. I just listen to what people say they want, and either offer products that alredy deliver that, or give ideas for products that could deliver that. But, as I said above, even if the product exsists, and I show people it checks all of their wants and needs, it still doesn't translate into people actually buying it.

You know people that bought a specific combination of a Wii, Xbox 360 and Blu-Ray player but not a PS3? I don't know anyone like that. As for gaming on the go, I think tablets, cell phones, laptops and the 3DS/Switch have that market cornered, I don't know if Sony could really get anywhere especially seeing what happened with the Vita.

I have two friends that bought first Wii and quickly grow bored, changed to X360 to midgen say there wasn't many interesting exclusives anymore (Kinect focus) and just then got to the PS3.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

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DonFerrari said:
VGPolyglot said:

You know people that bought a specific combination of a Wii, Xbox 360 and Blu-Ray player but not a PS3? I don't know anyone like that. As for gaming on the go, I think tablets, cell phones, laptops and the 3DS/Switch have that market cornered, I don't know if Sony could really get anywhere especially seeing what happened with the Vita.

I have two friends that bought first Wii and quickly grow bored, changed to X360 to midgen say there wasn't many interesting exclusives anymore (Kinect focus) and just then got to the PS3.

But did they also get a Blu-Ray player?



VGPolyglot said:
DonFerrari said:

I have two friends that bought first Wii and quickly grow bored, changed to X360 to midgen say there wasn't many interesting exclusives anymore (Kinect focus) and just then got to the PS3.

But did they also get a Blu-Ray player?

Eventually they did, but I wouldn't say they got it at a time it costed 1k



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

KBG29 said: 
KingofTrolls said: 

PS3 was another story. It was multiplatform-wise and games wise in general ...  it looked worse than 360 despite huuuuge price difference. Early PS3 games were PS2 games with bumped graphics, now compare it to Gears of War, online system etc. Thats the point. Also PS2 alone was a huge competitor.

The audience - in early days - saw Cell and Blu ray as misinvestment. Early PS3 user feel no difference with his hard disk, because 360 games were insta play. Simple as that.

2. No no no. PS4 Phone is a thing nobody wants, also nobody wants to feel like 2nd class consumer when he opens his/her brandly new console. Hard to explain it to me, just look at Indian cars Tata. They got awesome price/quality offering, but were mostly viewed as " car for poorers". That kill the sales.

Console gamers are not PC gamers. Any kind of segretation is very dangerous and create rightfylly backslash. I saw ur post here from time to time and I can say u are a minority enthustiast, that's all.

I mostly agree as I said in the rest of my post. Even if PS5 solved all of those early PS3 stumbles, I don't see anything changing peoples mind on the value of consoles. Sony and Microsoft have been trying to push the value of consoles for two generations, but people just don't want it. For some reason people just like spending a fortune buying gadgets. Instead of a $600 console that can handle everything, they will spend thousands on a console, a Blu-ray Player, a Roku, a Phone, a Handheld, a Tablet, an E-reader, a Smartwatch, an AI assistant speaker, and whatever other redundent product they come up wth next. That is just the reality we live in, and why Sony needs to keep the PS5 price as compact as possible.

As cool as it would be, to me, having multiple tiers on day one is most likely a dangerous direction. Like you said, someone is going to be hurt, (or say they feel hurt to cause a stir), if they have a base and premium model. If they want to do other form factors or higher performance models, it has to be later once the platform is established, and the core complainers, can't mislead the masses with their agenda. 

People will buy into value, it simply needs to fit their price range, and the market's price range. Instead of the PS3 costing $800-$1000 to make, and being sold for $600, if it had cost $600-$700, and sold for $399, then there would have been little problem, besides the early games being of lesser quality than the 360. That problem would have been solved much earlier as well, because early PS3 sales would have been that much higher, that much quicker, and devs and pubs would have been forced to figure out cell and get their PS3 games up to par asap.

Obviously PS3 could not have been the same caliber of console for a lesser manufacturing cost, based on it's architecture, but simply leaving out BC entirely, would have probably done the trick and worked out fine if they would have pushed remasters of the most popular/wanted PS2 titles at the time like they have with PS4.

Multiple tiers is risky, but will become less risky over time. First it was tiers in terms of storage space, then mid gen APU and RAM, so a whole new performance model at launch seems like a possibility if they want to try it. I think out of all the possible options for a PS5, the best thing PS could do to appease as many as possible without stirring up the pot, would be to create a $600 ish console, focused on gaming much like PS4, and sell it for $399. While this is risky, it's nowhere near as risky as the PS3's cost/subsidy plan was. This should allow PS5 to last 5 to 6 years instead of 3 years like PS4, and then they can decide whether to mid gen upgrade or launch PS6. A PS5 in the year 2020 and a PS6 in 2026 seems to fit nicely I might add.

KBG29 said: 

VGPolyglot said: 

It's not the consumers' faults, the corporation has to convince people that their product is worth getting.

It is always the consumers fault when they get ripped off, or buy bad products. We have had the ability to do our own research on every purchase we make for decades. You know you want something, you reach out to professional(s), you read form(s), you check book(s), and browse search engine(s), you gather a list of potential product(s) for whatever your need is. Then you reasearch each product, and see if it is good for you. People should be smart enough to find obscure products, see through both positive and negative reviews, and make a strong decision. 

I know most people just buy, and it is unrealistic to expect people actually think about the way they spend their money. At the end of the day, we all have the ability to find the best products, and it should not be a matter of propaganda and persuasion that determines what we buy. This is for everything, not just consoles or elctronics. 

People usually know a products typical value, or the competitions, and when they see a 360 for $399, and then see PS3 at $599, they automatically assume their being ripped off. Most won't dive deep into everything the product is capable of, and even if they do, they usually don't understand how useful it is, or how to value it, so they play it safe and get multiple cheaper options.

I have a big family and my aunts and uncles were interested in getting game consoles and media players for my cousins back around 2006. At the typical family gathering, they asked me what I thought since they are not well versed I am the most techie of the group by far. They had done some research and thought a 360 and HD-DVD player was the best option. While I tried to explain everything to them, they just wanted the basics and an answer, which isn't easy when they are just hoping you'll agree with them since that would be the cheapest option.

Since all had PS2's, I explained that a PS3 would be the best bang for their buck, even if they had to buy two of them for separate rooms since BD players were crazy expensive back then. I also explained that while it was still up in the air, that one of the formats was going to lose and disappear and that my bet was on Blu-Ray to win and stick around. I gave my reasoning and while it was sound, they obviously didn't get it, since they all went out and bought 360's and HD-DVD players. Didn't take long before they were all useless due to the death of HD-DVD and the RROD.

Sure enough, guess who got blamed? Me. Apparently I steered everyone wrong somehow, even though many of them went out after and bought PS3's once they were much cheaper. Wouldn't you know it, when it came time to buy some new consoles not all that long ago, who got asked again, and who suggested buying PS4's, and what got bought? Half listened, and half didn't. The half that didn't, stuck with XB because of BC mostly, even though I explained it wasn't true full BC for every game and not directly off the disc, knowing full well many of them like myself, have a joke of an internet connection. Well most of them have traded in those XB1's for PS4's now, other than a few a Halo die hards that will never change brands as long as it exists, which is understandable.

People rarely listen and sometimes never learn. It's no wonder good help is hard to find these days. Why bother helping when not only do they not listen, but blame you for being right? Luckily since it's family that bond keeps everyone in check for the most part, including myself.



The Canadian National Anthem According To Justin Trudeau

 

Oh planet Earth! The home of native lands, 
True social law, in all of us demand.
With cattle farts, we view sea rise,
Our North sinking slowly.
From far and snide, oh planet Earth, 
Our healthcare is yours free!
Science save our land, harnessing the breeze,
Oh planet Earth, smoke weed and ferment yeast.
Oh planet Earth, ell gee bee queue and tee.

EricHiggin said:

People will buy into value, it simply needs to fit their price range, and the market's price range. Instead of the PS3 costing $800-$1000 to make, and being sold for $600, if it had cost $600-$700, and sold for $399, then there would have been little problem, besides the early games being of lesser quality than the 360. That problem would have been solved much earlier as well, because early PS3 sales would have been that much higher, that much quicker, and devs and pubs would have been forced to figure out cell and get their PS3 games up to par asap.

Obviously PS3 could not have been the same caliber of console for a lesser manufacturing cost, based on it's architecture, but simply leaving out BC entirely, would have probably done the trick and worked out fine if they would have pushed remasters of the most popular/wanted PS2 titles at the time like they have with PS4.

Multiple tiers is risky, but will become less risky over time. First it was tiers in terms of storage space, then mid gen APU and RAM, so a whole new performance model at launch seems like a possibility if they want to try it. I think out of all the possible options for a PS5, the best thing PS could do to appease as many as possible without stirring up the pot, would be to create a $600 ish console, focused on gaming much like PS4, and sell it for $399. While this is risky, it's nowhere near as risky as the PS3's cost/subsidy plan was. This should allow PS5 to last 5 to 6 years instead of 3 years like PS4, and then they can decide whether to mid gen upgrade or launch PS6. A PS5 in the year 2020 and a PS6 in 2026 seems to fit nicely I might add.

People usually know a products typical value, or the competitions, and when they see a 360 for $399, and then see PS3 at $599, they automatically assume their being ripped off. Most won't dive deep into everything the product is capable of, and even if they do, they usually don't understand how useful it is, or how to value it, so they play it safe and get multiple cheaper options.

I have a big family and my aunts and uncles were interested in getting game consoles and media players for my cousins back around 2006. At the typical family gathering, they asked me what I thought since they are not well versed I am the most techie of the group by far. They had done some research and thought a 360 and HD-DVD player was the best option. While I tried to explain everything to them, they just wanted the basics and an answer, which isn't easy when they are just hoping you'll agree with them since that would be the cheapest option.

Since all had PS2's, I explained that a PS3 would be the best bang for their buck, even if they had to buy two of them for separate rooms since BD players were crazy expensive back then. I also explained that while it was still up in the air, that one of the formats was going to lose and disappear and that my bet was on Blu-Ray to win and stick around. I gave my reasoning and while it was sound, they obviously didn't get it, since they all went out and bought 360's and HD-DVD players. Didn't take long before they were all useless due to the death of HD-DVD and the RROD.

Sure enough, guess who got blamed? Me. Apparently I steered everyone wrong somehow, even though many of them went out after and bought PS3's once they were much cheaper. Wouldn't you know it, when it came time to buy some new consoles not all that long ago, who got asked again, and who suggested buying PS4's, and what got bought? Half listened, and half didn't. The half that didn't, stuck with XB because of BC mostly, even though I explained it wasn't true full BC for every game and not directly off the disc, knowing full well many of them like myself, have a joke of an internet connection. Well most of them have traded in those XB1's for PS4's now, other than a few a Halo die hards that will never change brands as long as it exists, which is understandable.

People rarely listen and sometimes never learn. It's no wonder good help is hard to find these days. Why bother helping when not only do they not listen, but blame you for being right? Luckily since it's family that bond keeps everyone in check for the most part, including myself.

A lower price for PS3 would have made a huge difference, but then again, you would have to strip a bunch of value out. Get rid of B/C and the BR-Drive and it could have been $399.99, but the PS3 needed the BR-Drive to deliver the AAA exclusives, and at the time B/C was a standard on PlayStations. Had they not had B/C the outrage would have been just as big. Had they not had the BR-Drive, we would not have got the AAA exclusives that made SCEWWS a powerhouse of a publisher. 

I think we will get to a point where people will understand that consoles come in a range of options to fit your needs, but I don't quite think the market is ready for it yet, at least at launch. I also don't think Sony has any interest in loosing money on hardware again. If they want to transistion the way their ecoystsem is viewed, and offer a range of devices, then I think having a base, a Pro, and maybe even another tier throughout the gen would help continue to condition consumers for this business model. It would also allow them to always sell each tier at break even or profit. 

As for your expereince with your family, that is exactly what I had with Friends, Family, and Co-Workers. Like I said, they ask for a device with a list of features, I tell them PS3 has all of that, then they go out and buy a 360. Then they come back asking how to get their wifi to work, or hey I bought a Blu-ray like you were talking about, but the 360 won't play it. Then I explain that they need a Wifi adaptor, or a Blu-ray player, because 360 doesn't come with built in Wifi, and it has a DVD drive. Then they ask what is a good Blu-ray player, and I would say PS3, then they go, "well we don't need another console in the house", so they go out and buy a BR-Player that cost more than the PS3. Then 3D and Internet connected BR movies come out, and "hey how do you connect your BR for the online features, or how do you get 3D BR's to play in your BR player"?

It just goes on and on like that. I also had some people grab the HD-DVD player, but it got even crazyer. Back in the day I actually hung out at the store during the whole BR/HD DVD thing, and tried to help people out.  Even after HD DVD had thrown in the towel, and I had proof, people would still tell me no, HD-DVD is the new format for HD TV's. At that point I gave up. 

Now days I leave my tech debates to the boards. If someone asks me, I just say I don't know, you should research on Google, Bing, Yahoo, etc., and find the device that has what you want. I might chime in from time to time, when something is just way off from what they are looking for,  but I have just tried to help to many times, and turned into the bad guy because they buy exactly the opposie of what I suggest, and end up hating. Better off to make no suggestion, or play dumb, then they might accidently stumble into the right thing, or at least your neutral when they come complaining.



Stop hate, let others live the life they were given. Everyone has their problems, and no one should have to feel ashamed for the way they were born. Be proud of who you are, encourage others to be proud of themselves. Learn, research, absorb everything around you. Nothing is meaningless, a purpose is placed on everything no matter how you perceive it. Discover how to love, and share that love with everything that you encounter. Help make existence a beautiful thing.

Kevyn B Grams
10/03/2010 

KBG29 on PSN&XBL

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KBG29 said:
EricHiggin said:

People will buy into value, it simply needs to fit their price range, and the market's price range. Instead of the PS3 costing $800-$1000 to make, and being sold for $600, if it had cost $600-$700, and sold for $399, then there would have been little problem, besides the early games being of lesser quality than the 360. That problem would have been solved much earlier as well, because early PS3 sales would have been that much higher, that much quicker, and devs and pubs would have been forced to figure out cell and get their PS3 games up to par asap.

Obviously PS3 could not have been the same caliber of console for a lesser manufacturing cost, based on it's architecture, but simply leaving out BC entirely, would have probably done the trick and worked out fine if they would have pushed remasters of the most popular/wanted PS2 titles at the time like they have with PS4.

Multiple tiers is risky, but will become less risky over time. First it was tiers in terms of storage space, then mid gen APU and RAM, so a whole new performance model at launch seems like a possibility if they want to try it. I think out of all the possible options for a PS5, the best thing PS could do to appease as many as possible without stirring up the pot, would be to create a $600 ish console, focused on gaming much like PS4, and sell it for $399. While this is risky, it's nowhere near as risky as the PS3's cost/subsidy plan was. This should allow PS5 to last 5 to 6 years instead of 3 years like PS4, and then they can decide whether to mid gen upgrade or launch PS6. A PS5 in the year 2020 and a PS6 in 2026 seems to fit nicely I might add.

People usually know a products typical value, or the competitions, and when they see a 360 for $399, and then see PS3 at $599, they automatically assume their being ripped off. Most won't dive deep into everything the product is capable of, and even if they do, they usually don't understand how useful it is, or how to value it, so they play it safe and get multiple cheaper options.

I have a big family and my aunts and uncles were interested in getting game consoles and media players for my cousins back around 2006. At the typical family gathering, they asked me what I thought since they are not well versed I am the most techie of the group by far. They had done some research and thought a 360 and HD-DVD player was the best option. While I tried to explain everything to them, they just wanted the basics and an answer, which isn't easy when they are just hoping you'll agree with them since that would be the cheapest option.

Since all had PS2's, I explained that a PS3 would be the best bang for their buck, even if they had to buy two of them for separate rooms since BD players were crazy expensive back then. I also explained that while it was still up in the air, that one of the formats was going to lose and disappear and that my bet was on Blu-Ray to win and stick around. I gave my reasoning and while it was sound, they obviously didn't get it, since they all went out and bought 360's and HD-DVD players. Didn't take long before they were all useless due to the death of HD-DVD and the RROD.

Sure enough, guess who got blamed? Me. Apparently I steered everyone wrong somehow, even though many of them went out after and bought PS3's once they were much cheaper. Wouldn't you know it, when it came time to buy some new consoles not all that long ago, who got asked again, and who suggested buying PS4's, and what got bought? Half listened, and half didn't. The half that didn't, stuck with XB because of BC mostly, even though I explained it wasn't true full BC for every game and not directly off the disc, knowing full well many of them like myself, have a joke of an internet connection. Well most of them have traded in those XB1's for PS4's now, other than a few a Halo die hards that will never change brands as long as it exists, which is understandable.

People rarely listen and sometimes never learn. It's no wonder good help is hard to find these days. Why bother helping when not only do they not listen, but blame you for being right? Luckily since it's family that bond keeps everyone in check for the most part, including myself.

A lower price for PS3 would have made a huge difference, but then again, you would have to strip a bunch of value out. Get rid of B/C and the BR-Drive and it could have been $399.99, but the PS3 needed the BR-Drive to deliver the AAA exclusives, and at the time B/C was a standard on PlayStations. Had they not had B/C the outrage would have been just as big. Had they not had the BR-Drive, we would not have got the AAA exclusives that made SCEWWS a powerhouse of a publisher. 

I think we will get to a point where people will understand that consoles come in a range of options to fit your needs, but I don't quite think the market is ready for it yet, at least at launch. I also don't think Sony has any interest in loosing money on hardware again. If they want to transistion the way their ecoystsem is viewed, and offer a range of devices, then I think having a base, a Pro, and maybe even another tier throughout the gen would help continue to condition consumers for this business model. It would also allow them to always sell each tier at break even or profit. 

As for your expereince with your family, that is exactly what I had with Friends, Family, and Co-Workers. Like I said, they ask for a device with a list of features, I tell them PS3 has all of that, then they go out and buy a 360. Then they come back asking how to get their wifi to work, or hey I bought a Blu-ray like you were talking about, but the 360 won't play it. Then I explain that they need a Wifi adaptor, or a Blu-ray player, because 360 doesn't come with built in Wifi, and it has a DVD drive. Then they ask what is a good Blu-ray player, and I would say PS3, then they go, "well we don't need another console in the house", so they go out and buy a BR-Player that cost more than the PS3. Then 3D and Internet connected BR movies come out, and "hey how do you connect your BR for the online features, or how do you get 3D BR's to play in your BR player"?

It just goes on and on like that. I also had some people grab the HD-DVD player, but it got even crazyer. Back in the day I actually hung out at the store during the whole BR/HD DVD thing, and tried to help people out.  Even after HD DVD had thrown in the towel, and I had proof, people would still tell me no, HD-DVD is the new format for HD TV's. At that point I gave up. 

Now days I leave my tech debates to the boards. If someone asks me, I just say I don't know, you should research on Google, Bing, Yahoo, etc., and find the device that has what you want. I might chime in from time to time, when something is just way off from what they are looking for,  but I have just tried to help to many times, and turned into the bad guy because they buy exactly the opposie of what I suggest, and end up hating. Better off to make no suggestion, or play dumb, then they might accidently stumble into the right thing, or at least your neutral when they come complaining.

Well depending on how much it cost to add in the PS2 hardware, plus any extra engineering the PS3 needed to do that, and the larger footprint and packaging etc, but yes, it's very hard to see them going without the BD drive and sticking with multiple DVD's like the 360 did. I would imagine if more cost was needed to bring the price down to $399, that it would be done through lesser performing hardware. Considering the leap PS3 was over PS2, a little less performance wouldn't have been a deal breaker. No BC would have caused a stir initially, but if they were able to clearly communicate to casuals that adding a PS2 required this much more cost to the product, that would probably have been enough to justify the lower price, similar to PS4.

Most people interested like to ask questions, but just want an easy answer right here and right now, not a "lecture". Sure, it got them what they wanted quicker, but it often ends up costing them more and taking longer overall because they didn't take the lesser extra time earlier to get the whole scoop. The world has become such a roller coaster, and one that your taught to remain on at all times, that very few actually get off and take breaks. Those that do, end up realizing that it's actually good for you and really helps in the long run. Filling your time with 95% doing and 5% thinking, is part of the reason why so many wealthy people remain wealthy. They have the time to do much more thinking than normal and it gives them a major advantage. If you want to save time for later, you have to invest time now. The benefit is that you will have "wasted" less time thinking overall if you do most of your thinking beforehand, as much as possible anyway. You will always run into bumps along the road, but there's a big difference between instantly jumping into the rear wheel drive car because it's got a full tank to drive through a snowstorm, vs a short stop to fill up to take the 4x4 pick up.



The Canadian National Anthem According To Justin Trudeau

 

Oh planet Earth! The home of native lands, 
True social law, in all of us demand.
With cattle farts, we view sea rise,
Our North sinking slowly.
From far and snide, oh planet Earth, 
Our healthcare is yours free!
Science save our land, harnessing the breeze,
Oh planet Earth, smoke weed and ferment yeast.
Oh planet Earth, ell gee bee queue and tee.

I don't know how I stumbled upon this thread, but man it makes me laugh.

Why do I find it super easy to picture one of you hanging around a walmart electronics department pleading with ignorant parents to put down that xbox and buy a PS3 instead. I bet the employees of that store cannot stand you. I also find it absolutely hilarious that you expect anyone to believe that you know dozens of people that bought spent $1000 on a blu-ray player but didn't buy the PS3 considering even Sony stores at the time were pushing PS3s as blu-ray players. But the most laughable is the claim that you know what? over a dozen people that actually bought the hd-dvd add on for the X360 considering how abysmally that sold.

I don't believe you. I worked at a huge game studio at the time this hardware was released with arguably some of the most diehard gamers and technology nerds in the country and even I only know two people that bought that HD-DVD attachment. They both had PS3s as well.

P.S. You whole value argument reminds me of why the heads of Kia can't figure out why the Stinger is selling nearly as well as expected. It's such a great value! It has so many features not found by its direct competitors at Audi and BMW and Mercedes! But apparently people aren't willing to pay $50K for a Kia, Go figure.



I think this will be PS4's last great Holiday in November but it's still gonna be massively successful. The damn thing was selling over 200k consistently in April like, it's a powerhouse.



 

Everything in the above reply is my opinion, from my own perspective and not representative of reality outside of my own head!

-Android user, please be gentle with critique on my spelling.