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I'm tired of this overemphasis on diversity spilling into our entertainment.

Forums - General Discussion - I'm tired of this overemphasis on diversity spilling into our entertainment.

I feel for you OP. But thats the way things are today, although it may change in the future. But keep in mind those are the minority. Very loud and powerful, but the minority. The majority of people dont like it.
So the best thing is two use two good weapons that we still have (so far). Our vote and our money. Dont vote for people that support this bullshit and dont waste your mo ey in entertainment that supports it.
If next james bond is an asian homossexual transgender, then dont watch it. Dont spend you money in it. At least for those two things we still have free speech.



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I fully agree with you.
I have watched plenty of shows that are great and doesn't depend on any of those points. I have watched great shows that were focused on those points so it made sense on the history. And have spoiled shows because they forced an agenda without making any sense or need.
But we do know that media is made to profit so as long as putting tokens and pushing narratives generates more profit than leaving them out they'll keep doing it.

Also wanted to point that in real life most of my friends act the similarly independent of their gender, color, religion or orientation. As much as a heterossexual doesn't need to be making love or even kissing in a movie homo also don't. I much prefer how JK Rowling made with subtle hints that Dumbledore was in love with Grindewald than having any explicit scene on it... sure the description of Dumb was stereotypical on the clothing extravaganza =]



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

I agree on principle, especially on point 1. Not necessarily in entertainment, but in general. There is no need for gender quotas. If the most qualified people cannot get a job/position etc. because of a regulation/quota, then how is that equality for all people?

Again, this is not an entertainment issue, but an economic and political one.



To VGC polyglot. The ridiculous part on "I'm gay" declarations on media is just about similar with celebrities...

How often have you seem someone spouting at loud without any context, need or anything "I'm gay", or even "I'm hetero"? And again, have you seem in any movie someone declaring himself hetero just to say he is hetero?

Even better, how do you see all the requests from the internet to make lesbian princess on Disney movies, to give a gay boyfriend to some prince instead of couple with the princess and other shenanigans?



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

.

Okay. Lets go through this:

YOUR QUALIFYING STATEMENT: Why offer one? When people offer qualifying statements like, for example, "I'm not a sexist, but..." it's a guaranteed fact that the next phrase will be a sexist one. Why posture as though you care about anyone but yourself when clearly you don't?

Now on to your "points".

1. TALENT. I find it remarkable that all women are talentless in your mind by virtue of being female. But I'm not surprised that that's how you view the world.

2. "BENDING STORYLINES". I wonder if it has ever occurred to you that female human beings, including those of us who are gay, consume media too and sometimes like to actually see stories that we can directly relate too on various levels as well rather than always being expected to view the world through your eyes?

 

  • I have some unhappy news for you: 1 YOU, as a straight, presumably white, male belong to the most overrepresented demographic in all artistic mediums. Just to casually throw out a couple of factoids that come to mind off the top of my head, two out of every three Hollywood actors are male and you most likely can't even name one female movie director (and if you can, it's Patty Jenkins because of last year's Wonder Woman movie, which you were probably against the production of too). Similarly, in video games...well frankly, just try thinking of a single game you've ever heard of before that was created by a team consisting either mostly or entirely of women. It's not very easy, is it? 1 And what percentage would you say use female-only leads, because I've been gaming for more than 30 years now and I'd say it's consistently been less than 10% of the total that whole time. I could go on down the list of mediums this way -- TV, music, literature, etc. etc. -- but the point is the same: women, and especially those who are gay and/or not white , are dramatically underrepresented and usually presented as stereotypes in as far as they represented at all. You will say that this overrepresentation of men who are white and straight just reflects consumption habits. I will ask you which came first: the proverbial chicken or the egg. You just don't want those traditional consumption patterns to be made at risk of changing is all.

 

I point all this out to highlight how selfish and entitled you're being. You use expressions like "diversity" and "bending storylines" to describe representation for anyone belonging to any group but your own. 2 You seem to believe that you are the default sex/race/orientation and that the rest of us are unnatural aberrations undeserving of having our stories told at all.

3 I mean how many games can you actually think of that include gay romance arcs, for example, because very few are coming to my mind. There weren't any that I can even recall around when I was in my teen years, discovering that I was lesbian. Did you know that that level of cultural annihilation can be hurtful and cause one to feel very, very lonely and freakish? But methinks that actually maybe that's how you hope that people like me feel because you don't even think of us as fully human.

4. Why aren't you bothered by the far larger number of movies/games/shows/whatever that use all-male casts of lead characters? Why just when it's girls or women?

So you found the way that men are represented in the latest Ghostbusters movie insulting? Congratulations: now you understand how I felt about the way women were represented in the originals! In other words, get over it.

3. STEREOTYPES. I agree with this sentiment technically, but, given the rest of your commentary on the evils of "diversity", can't help but feel that there is a selfish ulterior motive in the back of you mind.

1 Lets see on my PS4 Horizon, Uncharted LL, 2 Tom Raider Games, Fallout 4, Dishonered 2, Bloodborne,  Dragon Age (female dwarf) Nier Automata, Until Dawn (alright not only but still), Dark Souls 3, Infamous first light. So around 40% of my games I played as a woman.

 

2. I am pretty sure White Males also buy the most games by far, so it's only logical for companies to cater to 75% of their audience. That doesn't make them sexist or racist, just capitalist. Besides there are plenty of games with a female lead or quite a few meaningful important  woman characters to begin with. Given the choice I usually play as a female. Athough I don't give the slightest crap that the the new GOW doesn't include memorable non white characters. 

How many people who enjoy enjoy AAA games  are gay probably 3% at best. It's very simple companies make games for their audiences not the world, but people who buy and play their games. If games with other races and sexualities sell much better than games only featuring white males they would have made them a long time ago.

3 From the ones I played, Mass Effect, Dragon Age, The last of Us, Borderlands, Fable, Fallout,Skyrim/ or Dragons dogma you can Mary the same sex. Here is a list with LBQT VG Characters. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_video_games_with_LGBT_characters

 

4 Because most of the games I play usually involve me murdering a shit ton of people. And for some reason I find it more believable that I have a bunch of  steroid, testosterone males kill everything they see than a squad of female characters.

 

As for ghost busters the movie sucked when it was made and sequel ducks too. Also why are you trying to find equality in a comedy. That's like trying to did a good black and Asian representation in Rush Hour.



Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

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Agreed. Diversity hiring will eventually kill companies though e.g Bioware so businesses will return to sense after they see more and more disasters connected back to diversity quotas. Shan't be too long either, I just hope Druckerman doesn't kill ND before they finish the TLOU trilogy.



 

Everything in the above reply is my opinion, from my own perspective and not representative of reality outside of my own head!

-Android user, please be gentle with critique on my spelling.

Jaicee said:
bugrimmar said:

1. TALENT is what matters. Not your race or your sexual orientation. So if you aren't as talented as a male developer or director, you still should get the opportunity just because you're female? If you want to get a spot, IMPROVE. Let your work speak for itself and don't use your being female or Hispanic as a reason for your lack of success. It's garbage that less talented individuals are given work just for the sake of diversity. Diversity is good! But not if you're hiring someone just to prove your workplace is diverse and not because of talent!

2. STOP BENDING STORYLINES FOR THE SAKE OF INCLUSION. [...]

 

3. STOP USING STEREOTYPES. [...]

1. TALENT. I find it remarkable that all women are talentless in your mind by virtue of being female. But I'm not surprised that that's how you view the world.

2. "BENDING STORYLINES". [...]

3. STEREOTYPES. I agree with this sentiment technically, but, given the rest of your commentary on the evils of "diversity", can't help but feel that there is a selfish ulterior motive in the back of you mind.

First of all to point one: he never said all women are talentless. He said that women are hired because they are women and not because of talent. And that statement I must challenge: I can think of no example of women in entertainement biz that are talentless (and successful). So I would say you both are wrong.

But there is a deeper point to it, something that bothers me. I recently noticed, that I can say if a movie is american or european just by looking at the female cast. Pretty much all american actresses are attractive. While many european actresses are also attractive, they also cast women who look ... well, like normal women. American movies give a total wrong impression on women. Even in supporting roles or side roles all women are good looking. And don't understand me wrong, I think these actresses are good at their job. But Hollywood casting agencies must send all actresses back, that can play a role, but look standard and not like fashion models. A note here: movies by Jodie Foster are an exception.

Point two about bending storylines is also more complicated. Hollywood pretty much always bends storylines - because they basically have no original ideas. Everything on a movie screen was a comic, a book, a foreign movie or an older movie before. So if you remake this, you change stuff. I did not watch the new Ghostbusters. Not because the main cast are all women now. But because I already watched Ghostbusters many years ago and nothing indicated the new movie made anything better than the original. I don't waste my lifetime watching bad movies. On the flipside I watched and liked Jessica Jones. Because I was never into comic books and therefore it didn't matter for me that it was an old story. They remade one figure from male to female (Jerry Hogarth became Jeri Hogarth) and I'm cool with that, because Carrie-Anne Moss played great. Most of the male figures there basically idiots (with the exception of the main villain). But I'm cool with that, because it doesn't matter so much, I watched so much movies with all or mainly male cast, I have no problem with mainly female cast. So, for me you can bend storylines - if you do it well and not shitty. But I prefer original stories, about which nobody can say they storyline is bended. Heck, we are on a videogame forum and here new IPs get praised and companies get slammed for making sequels. We should do that more for movies.

Well, and the stereotype-point: it is everywhere and it is annoying too. OTBWY showed an example. The stereotypical women in Hollywood movies moved on from the damsel in distress to the allmighty powerwomen who can do everything but has a soft heart too. A reason I watch movies and series from all over the world is, that at least each region has different stereotypes, so I have more variety.

So, sorry I answered you, most of my points were more or less general, I just stumbled over your post as my opinions articulated in my head and I noticed that you misinterpreted point one of the original post and felt the need to answer.



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my greatest games: 2017, 2018

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the-pi-guy said:
Snoopy said: 

The character looks more white than they do Japanese in the anime. I had to remind myself they are in Japan constantly just like Yugioh.

Both personalities were way off, but I could at least see how Light kind of looks the part. L was just an embarrassment all around.

So what exactly would be the problem if they decided to make all the characters black?  

Sorry but I don't agree.  Light was an embarrassment.  L was the highlight, which isn't saying much.   

L was a black guy playing a Japanese guy yet when a white guy plays a japanese guy it's somehow worse. You're brainwashed dude.



 

Everything in the above reply is my opinion, from my own perspective and not representative of reality outside of my own head!

-Android user, please be gentle with critique on my spelling.

One producer I watch a bunch of content because of my wife is Shonda....

Talk about a woman that like to portray strong, successful, black characters, plenty of gay characters in something that if you were to look at society is very far from what you would see but doesn't bother much. It bothers only when she tries to push her political agenda, where I just go lalalala waiting for the story-line to follow.

Another funny point is that it seems like she sees herself as main chars in her shows so she go there and put an ugly fat black woman with a very bad temper that no one would really want to be near and give her a very fitting and attractive boyfriend, like in hers wet teenager dreams. Just like the writer of 50 shades of grey that started making fanfic of Crepuscule which was a fanfic of Harry Potter but going for harem. Seem like ocidental people are copying the harem manga style.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Snoopy said:
the-pi-guy said:

So what exactly would be the problem if they decided to make all the characters black?  

Sorry but I don't agree.  Light was an embarrassment.  L was the highlight, which isn't saying much.   

An emo pale white guy being portrayed by a regular black guy. Jeez I wonder what the problem is.

Oh I forgot skin color is such a huge characterization.  

Once again, I don't agree.  'The movie basically had nothing to do with the series.  They changed the location from Japan to the US, they changed the name of Yagami, they changed the entire cast from Japanese to American.  But no, "having a black guy play the part" is just bad.  That's way worse than making Light an idiot, even though that was something the entire series revolved around.  

thismeintiel said:

1.) Mass Effect: Andromeda is a direct result of a team practicing diversity hiring. It was so bad, EA had to get another team to fix the game and poor sales caused them to put the series on hold. And if you don't think it's happening elsewhere, you're fooling yourself.

3.)  Its the same bullshit they're pulling with SW, which is turning fans off of the product. The Force is female. It's fine for Rey to be a Mary Sue. The character of Rose, who adds absolutely nothing to the story and actually prevents Finn from doing something heroic,  is treated like she's a great character and if you disagree you're sexist. Lando is pansexual. It cost them $700M+ with TLJ. Now, 66% of the users on RT are saying they don't want to watch the Solo movie. Kathleen Kennedy is ruining that franchise with her political views being forced into the films. 

1.)  By someone's opinion.  

Other people have a different opinion.  The game had a host of development issues that don't necessarily have to do with diversity. That the game was understaffed.  One guy who actually worked on the game said the issue was that there wasn't enough diversity.  http://jstationx.com/2017/10/23/mass-effect-andromeda-failure-lack-of-diversity/

3.)  Haven't seen the film, but from what it sounded like the issues with the movie had nothing to do with women.  

 

Besides, you are mixing up writing and the actor.  Just because you don't like how a woman is portrayed doesn't mean it has anything to do with her.  When it has everything to do with the script that someone else wrote.  

Last edited by the-pi-guy - on 21 May 2018