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I'm tired of this overemphasis on diversity spilling into our entertainment.

Forums - General Discussion - I'm tired of this overemphasis on diversity spilling into our entertainment.

Ka-pi96 said:
Azuren said:

But Montana does exist. And if you highball by assuming that every mixed-race person in Montana is part black, that's still only 2.93% of the population.

Sounds like RE5 where people complained because there was too many black people... in a game set in Africa

Actually, it's the opposite problem, but similar. People were complaining about too many blacks in a primarily black country, but aren't complaining about too many blacks in a state where black people are mythological.

VGPolyglot said:
Azuren said:

But Montana does exist. And if you highball by assuming that every mixed-race person in Montana is part black, that's still only 2.93% of the population.

Michigan is mainly white, but it varies by county, Wayne County having a much higher proportion of blacks. Maybe they decided to make Hope County have a higher proportion of blacks, which they can do without being wrong because as I said there is no Hope County so it's impossible for them to be wrong.

Michigan ≠ Montana

the-pi-guy said:
Clearly all the black people in Montana moved to Hope County.

If they wanted to be realistic and be more diverse, they would have included a few Native Americans.

Indeed.



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Azuren said:
Ka-pi96 said:

Sounds like RE5 where people complained because there was too many black people... in a game set in Africa

Actually, it's the opposite problem, but similar. People were complaining about too many blacks in a primarily black country, but aren't complaining about too many blacks in a state where black people are mythological.

VGPolyglot said:

Michigan is mainly white, but it varies by county, Wayne County having a much higher proportion of blacks. Maybe they decided to make Hope County have a higher proportion of blacks, which they can do without being wrong because as I said there is no Hope County so it's impossible for them to be wrong.

Michigan ≠ Montana

the-pi-guy said:
Clearly all the black people in Montana moved to Hope County.

If they wanted to be realistic and be more diverse, they would have included a few Native Americans.

Indeed.

Yeah, and Hope County doesn't exist. You can dispute the demographics all you want, but the fact of the matter is that they can use whichever demographics they want for a county that doesn't even exist.



Azuren said:
Ka-pi96 said:

Sounds like RE5 where people complained because there was too many black people... in a game set in Africa

Actually, it's the opposite problem, but similar. People were complaining about too many blacks in a primarily black country, but aren't complaining about too many blacks in a state where black people are mythological.

I shit you not FC5 had complaints that it wasn't realistic due to having too many black people.



VGPolyglot said:
Azuren said:

Actually, it's the opposite problem, but similar. People were complaining about too many blacks in a primarily black country, but aren't complaining about too many blacks in a state where black people are mythological.

Michigan ≠ Montana

Indeed.

Yeah, and Hope County doesn't exist. You can dispute the demographics all you want, but the fact of the matter is that they can use whichever demographics they want for a county that doesn't even exist.

Point is they were criticised fore lack of diversity, and when they fixed that in FC5 the gaming press pointed on that it is tacked on due to being unrealistic. 



VGPolyglot said:
bugrimmar said:

So your solution is to just tack on random diverse characters for the sake of diversity? How wonderfully superficial. Does it truly further the cause when all you're doing is forcing characters into roles they weren't meant to have?

 

How about creating new stories and new characters that are meant to be female, gay, black, Hispanic, or whatever? Instead of changing gender to suit your agenda, why not make your own goddamn character wherein the gender makes sense? Why ruin an entire storyline just for a minority when the vast majority hates breaking continuity?

 

That's the problem. Diversity backers don't have the courage to fix the problem with talent and creativity and hard work. They just want to do it the easy way. Popular franchise, let's change the gender and it's done! No need to work on something new!

Roles they weren't meant to have? What do you even mean by that? Characters are not real people, they are created specifically to fill a certain role, how are you supposed to decide that they aren't meant to have that role? How can you even change the gender of a franchise? It's like you're entirely against women and minorities being added as characters at all in established franchises, which makes no sense at all, franchises are worked on by various people that come and leave as the franchise evolves, it's not a static cast working on it.

So if we follow your logic, what's the point of having back stories and lore in the first place? So you don't mind RETCON at all huh? Why follow characters and be fans of them when at any moment they can change dramatically without warning?

 

Your argument is nonsense. I'm not against women and minorities as characters. But why change established universes? Just to fulfill your agenda? For money?

 

So if we make Lara croft into a male, would that be ok? Wonder woman becomes wonder man? How about Alonzo in training day to become white? IT BREAKS THE FRANCHISE CONTINUITY.

 

Again, if minorities want to be represented in games and movies, make franchises about them! Why break old ones that fans love to cater to your political agenda? Make new characters! I fucking love Tomb raider. Most of my characters in rpgs and MMOs like WoW and dragon age are female. So just make your own franchises for your inclusion and diversity agenda. No need to make human torch black and force the concept of having a white twin. No need to make a star trek character gay when his actor specifically played him straight.

 

The problem here is you aren't a fan. You don't get it. You're not devoted to these stories. You simply don't get it.



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VGPolyglot said:
Azuren said:

Actually, it's the opposite problem, but similar. People were complaining about too many blacks in a primarily black country, but aren't complaining about too many blacks in a state where black people are mythological.

Michigan ≠ Montana

Indeed.

Yeah, and Hope County doesn't exist. You can dispute the demographics all you want, but the fact of the matter is that they can use whichever demographics they want for a county that doesn't even exist.

Montana doesn't have that many black people. Representing that many black people in the game is not indicative of the known population of Montana. It's an example of diversity for diversity's sake.



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VGPolyglot said:
Azuren said:

Actually, it's the opposite problem, but similar. People were complaining about too many blacks in a primarily black country, but aren't complaining about too many blacks in a state where black people are mythological.

Michigan ≠ Montana

Indeed.

Yeah, and Hope County doesn't exist. You can dispute the demographics all you want, but the fact of the matter is that they can use whichever demographics they want for a county that doesn't even exist.

What about a game set in China but the goons are mostly white Americans?

 

You'll say "but ooohh that region of china doesn't exist". That's insanity. Obviously, wherever you go in China, whites aren't that common. Whether the region created exists or not, it's still in the same goddamn country so it should follow the logic.

 

Your comments are so nonsensical and frustrating to read. You ignore logic and you defend your diversity to death regardless of how silly it is.



So which way can diversity be put into something for it not be seen as "forced"? Because whenever even something isn't lead by a SWM its always seem as pushing something "down our throats". I remember a hospital show starring Jada Pinkett Smith some years ago that featured a black female Nurse lead, her Indian best friend, and white male doctor. This is probably a great many hospitals with a staff like this but people called it "forced diversity". It's pretty much whenever a cast isn't 90% white with a token minority that this sort of complaint occurs. I really don't GAF if there's diversity or not. If it's good I'll watch it. But many of you have to admit you all steer clear of vehicles helmed by a mostly minority cast. It's why there's Asian/Black/Indian Cinema and no "White Cinema". White is seen as the norm and therefore needs no category. And if seeing "forced diversity" makes you less accepting of diversity then you were never doing to accept it in the first place.

But look, if it makes you softy non-minorities feel good please note that most of us are all FOS as you are. We cry about made up sh!t like "cultural appropriation". The folks who always point fingers and whine about this are the ones who have no issue with "forced diversity" (AKA real-life BTW). And the people who decry mentions of cultural appropriation will argue against more than 3 minorities in a cast of characters. Anyway, cultural appropriation is often mentioned by the same folks who want us to accepts each other's cultures and differences. But it seems this doesn't extend to white people. This is why Nicki Minaj, Beyoncé, etc. can wear blonde hair weave with no consequence but Kylie Jenner is lambasted for braiding her hair. It's why a white teenage girl is blasted for wearing an Asian dress to prom but Taraji P. Hensen (black woman) was cheered for wearing the same dress. It's all such bullsh!t! Things like this are why I've become so misanthropic. People are disgusting and find the most ridiculous things to use as division.

And I see a poster on here talking about how Horizon forced them to play as a woman and didn't give them a choice. GTFOH with that bullsh!t! What you wanna do is play as a SWM a la Nathan Drake and seeing the woman as the hero made you uncomfortable. Similar to how Chloe and Nadine as mains in Uncharted was met with "you expect us to believe 2 women can overpower an army" but SWM Nathan Drake did so for over a decade with nary an eye-roll. It's why I've had the argument that Zazie Beets' Domino has an impractical Afro and it's dumb because all bad guys have to do is grab her by her hair. As if they can't also grab Thor and Widow by the hair. People are absolutely full of steaming piles of sh!t! But feel free to say the same to me. Good day!



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the-pi-guy said:
1. How do you know they are less talented? I'm not seeing this big fall in quality due to more females in the process. But there are plenty of women who get passed over despite being just as good as their male counterpart.

2. This point doesn't really make any sense. Why is being a woman being done for inclusion, while being a man isn't? If the gender doesnt matter, why does it matter if the main characters are female?

Even including stuff like homosexuality. What does it matter? It's a characteristization, in which case it doesn't matter.
Or it's part of the story, in which case that's their right to change their story however they see fit.

3. Yep. Everyone is in favor of that.

At the end of the day, movies, games, etc are made by companies that want to maximize how much they are making. If that means that if enough people want to see a change over not seeing that change, they are going to make that change (or not) to make their bottom line better.

As for number 1 have you seen the 2016 ghostbusters film? and before "rah rah sexism" there's a very good video I would advise watching about what went on around the launch of that film

I agree with OP completely, I'm perfectly happy to have anything in a film if it fits naturally in their, the """""semi"""" homo erotic lines between deadpool and Colossus even fit fine because of the background that Pool had just warped his mind to where happiness comes from anywhere that happiness comes from, so it fits perfectly him not giving a rats about how he comes off to others. Or negasonics gf in DP2 just fits where they were pushing that character, again it isn't out of place.

Something like Sulu visiting his male partner in the Yorktown in Star Trek Remake 3 that was handled completely wrong imo, it had no real impact in the film other than going "look guys, gays in space" not a single other member of the crew met up with their Significant other and the Sulu / family scene added nothing to the movie, if it at least came back into play later when the yorktown was under attack I would be okay with it, but it wasn't... just shoehorned in completely out of place.

It even pissed off the original actor  of Sulu known gay actor George Takei as while he was gay... that character that he portrayed was not, Sulu was 100% straight in the original Trek, they just warped him as a "nod" to Takei's real life which again shouldn't have anything to do with the character in the film. To quote him from https://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/films/687302/Star-Trek-Beyond-gay-Mr-Sulu-John-Cho-George-Takei-Anton-Yelchin-Karl-Urban "

However in a surprise response, Takei has said it is “really unfortunate” that Mr Sulu is revealed as gay in the new movie.

The actor revealed he has tried to convinced director Lin to create a new character with a same-sex partner, rather than “twisting” the ideas of the show’s creator, Gene Roddenberry.

Takei told Cho and Lin to: “Be imaginative and create a character who has a history of being gay.

“Rather than Sulu, who had been straight all this time, suddenly being revealed as being closeted.

“I urged them. He left me feeling that that was going to happen.”

One of the Starship Enterprise's crew has come out

Takei insisted Roddenberry was a “strong supporter of LGBT equality” but had never meant for Sulu’s character to be heterosexual.

He said: "I'm delighted that there's a gay character.

“Unfortunately, it's a twisting of Gene's creation, to which he put in so much thought. I think it's really unfortunate."



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I think the most egregious example of forced diversity in a video game is black people in "Middle Earth: Shadow of War". J.R.R. Tolkein is probably rolling in his grave, and I'm surprised Christopher Tolkein didn't comment on it, considering he adores the LOTR lore just as much as his father.