| donathos said: It's not surprising that some men have bad experiences with women -- just as some women have bad experiences with men. To generalize those experiences to the whole gender is a mistake, imo; a mistake made equally by MGTOW and many feminists. |
The MGTOW know that good woman exists. The MGTOW even have a special term for them. They are called "unicorns". 
If someone wants to live alone, that's their business. If they have views on social issues, free to do so. If they ever become extremist and threaten violence then it ceases to be acceptable.
I think a lot of men have struggled to adjust to the seismic shift of the past 100 years. Back then in the US women couldn't vote, barely worked, and had little to no independence. There are still these old pressures and expectations against a new reality. It's not fair to expect men to always make more (bread winner), and then yell at them for making more (equality).
I also think we can view this issues not as opposition, but cooperatively to build a better society. Many laws or mentalities are outdated and we could use a rethinking about gender roles and how we pressure men and women. I don't think speaking about women's issues comes at the expense of men, or vice versa. We can resolve multiple issues at the same time, but it does require society to adjust with the new norms.
| Jaicee said: I consider myself a second wave feminist (that's the 'more extreme', unsexy kind) and I'm actually kind of okay with MTGOW. I don't agree at all with their motivations or general attitudes about women (being one), but I do understand the emotional need to have separate spaces. Second wave (or, if you will, radical) feminism encompasses a lot of views that might be considered politically incorrect as well. Female separatism (the logical opposite of MTGOW), for example, is considered to be an idea that is within our range of acceptable debate. Indeed, some of our more noted thought leaders, like Sheila Jeffreys and Janice Raymond, are female separatists. |
"hey MTGOWs seem a lot nicer and more reasonable. Except the ones who buy prostituted women. If you're going to "go your own way" then do so properly: don't buy sex slaves."
they do that because its an act, they aren't really going their own way, they're just bitter because they're unsuccessful with women
and i know this because after having seen a few of their videos, all they do is complain about how awful women are, which obviously demonstrates a deep concern for women
"Female separatism"
to what end? to get away from male oppression such as sexual harassment and violence?
hentai_11 said:
Attractiveness has nothing to do with this. Most of the MGTOW are divorced. (Means they were attractive enough to get a wife.) They usually start to go their own way after bad experiences with women. |
a divorce indicates that at the time of the divorce the man was unattractive to the woman... because obviously you don't divorce someone you are attracted to
MGTOW is irrelevant in the grand scheme. In the US >40% of children are born out of wedlock and 40% do not live with their biological father. Now if we could fuse MGTOWs and single moms...
o_O.Q said:
a divorce indicates that at the time of the divorce the man was unattractive to the woman... because obviously you don't divorce someone you are attracted to |
That might not be as obvious as you think.
You might divorce someone on the grounds that they are violent. Or have been cheating on you for many years. Or because they are criminals. Or have been treating your children poorly. Or because they are away all the time.
None of these exclude you from being attracted to the person.
| o_O.Q said: "hey MTGOWs seem a lot nicer and more reasonable. Except the ones who buy prostituted women. If you're going to "go your own way" then do so properly: don't buy sex slaves." they do that because its an act, they aren't really going their own way, they're just bitter because they're unsuccessful with women and i know this because after having seen a few of their videos, all they do is complain about how awful women are, which obviously demonstrates a deep concern for women
"Female separatism" to what end? to get away from male oppression such as sexual harassment and violence? |
On the motivations of MTGOWS: yeah, I know. :P I'm trying to be nice. I like to at least try because I would also observe that many of these men have actually been physically attacked by women (perhaps their moms) before, and figure that maybe it's experiences like those that inform their negative attitudes about women. Or at least in many cases anyway. I have a heart!
Do female separatists advocate separatism toward the aim of escaping male violence? Substantially yes. There actually exist a handful of communities in the world today -- at least one on most continents -- that allow only women and their children, and it is a consistent fact that each of them was created to function as essentially a giant shelter for battered women and their kids where they can stay and live (though male children have to leave once they reach whatever the given society considers to be the age of adulthood). A small handful of the most radical feminists out there (most often lesbians, and I think it's worth saying here that most lesbians, myself included, have been either physically or sexually abused by men before, often as punishment for consistently refusing advances) feel that that's maybe how the world overall should be.
Last edited by Jaicee - on 09 May 2018
Podings said:
That might not be as obvious as you think. You might divorce someone on the grounds that they are violent. Or have been cheating on you for many years. Or because they are criminals. Or have been treating your children poorly. Or because they are away all the time. |
well i'm speaking generally, the divorce rate being over a half and maybe by a substantial margin isn't primarily a result of husbands being violent
Jaicee said:
On the motivations of MTGOWS: yeah, I know. :P I'm trying to be nice. I like to at least try because I would also observe that many of these men have actually been physically attacked by women (perhaps their moms) before, and figure that maybe it's experiences like those that inform their negative attitudes about women. Or at least in many cases anyway. I have a heart! Do female separatists advocate separatism toward the aim of escaping male violence? Substantially yes. There actually exist a handful of communities in the world today -- at least one on most continents -- that allow only women and their children, and it is a consistent fact that each of them was created to function as essentially a giant shelter for battered women and their kids where they can stay and live (though male children have to leave once they reach whatever the given society considers to be age of adulthood). A small handful of the most radical feminists out there (most often lesbians, and I think it's worth saying here that most lesbians, myself included, have been either physically or sexually abused by men before, often as punishment for consistently refusing advances) feel that that's maybe how the world overall should be. |
fair enough, i think people should be free to live how they want to and that includes the level to which they interact with other groups
never heard of him until now.
meh, I am still not bored enough in life to watch peoples you tube videos.
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