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Brexiters OUTRAGED after discovering that voting to abolish free movement means movement will no longer be free

Forums - Politics Discussion - Brexiters OUTRAGED after discovering that voting to abolish free movement means movement will no longer be free

contestgamer said:
VGPolyglot said:

Yes, it is indeed.

Because only a one country planet is acceptable right?

I'd prefer a no country planet. In any case, nationalism is bad because it results in people discriminating others because of their place of origin, something which people cannot control, so it's essentially the same as racism except for place of origin it's race.



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contestgamer said:
VGPolyglot said:

Both racism and nationalism are vile ideologies.

na·tion·al·ism
noun
 patriotic feeling, principles, or efforts.
  1. advocacy of political independence for a particular country.
Yeah it's very vile... To have countries and to protect them, damn it's terrible.
VGPolyglot said:
contestgamer said:
na·tion·al·ism
noun
 patriotic feeling, principles, or efforts.
  1. advocacy of political independence for a particular country.
Yeah it's very vile... To have countries and to protect them, damn it's terrible.

Yes, it is indeed.

There is nothing wrong with nationalism. Only mixed with xenophobia become ugly.



Helloplite said:
CrazyGamer2017 said:

That is not correct. I'm pretty sure Nazis never said that Jews, Black or any other non white race was their friends to justify nazism. Neither do I recall the KKK saying they have black friends to try and prove they are not racist because they are racist.

So just to be clear are you saying that pro-brexiters which are obviously nationalists are inherently racist? I would be ok with that as I strongly stand against Brexit but I'm just curious to know if that's what you are saying?

If the standard of measure and comparison is Nazism and the KKK, then that is a very very low standard to compare things to. Incidentally, Nazism in its purest state is not "racist" in the grand scheme of things. Karl Schmitt, the philosopher of Nazism, only argued about the necessity of the friend-enemy relation, the "us" against which a "them" is defined. Schmitt was arguing about the necessity of forcing the nation to be one, in response to previous philosophers such as Plato and Aristotle and the grander debates about democracy. He presented his theory as a form of refined democracy where the people are "made" to speak as one (hint: through the dictator figure of the Chancellor). In his theory, and influenced by Platos distaste of democracy, he argued that the origin of justice is an act of violence. Democracy cannot contain multiple voices because this is its undoing.

 

Hence the Volk, the people who speak as one... By not having to speak at all.

On a similar note, let us not forget the cultural openings of Hitler to muslims, which he thought could be friends and allies to the Reich. "The peoples of Islam will always be closer to us than, for example, France", he said, which is probably the closest thing to a racist and a nationalist calling someone of another identity as a "friend".

But I am digressing here. Ultimately, nationalism nurtures racism, like the sun's light nurtures the shadows cast by it. Nationalism distinguishes people between an us and a them. It is at its core. Racism is the natural outcome.

oh ok, so Nazi's and Hitler aren't racist, only vgchart posters you don't agree with are. Gotcha. Sounds pretty racist to me. 

In fact lets use your logic here:

"On a similar note, let us not forget the cultural openings of Hitler to muslims, which he thought could be friends and allies to the Reich. "The peoples of Islam will always be closer to us than, for example, France", he said, which is probably the closest thing to a racist and a nationalist calling someone of another identity as a "friend"."

A Hitler apologist.... Like every racist ever.



black8jac said:
contestgamer said:
na·tion·al·ism
noun
 patriotic feeling, principles, or efforts.
  1. advocacy of political independence for a particular country.
Yeah it's very vile... To have countries and to protect them, damn it's terrible.
VGPolyglot said:

Yes, it is indeed.

There is nothing wrong with nationalism. Only mixed with xenophobia become ugly.

The core of nationalism itself revolves around an us vs. them mentality of people within a certain nation against those outside of that nation.



VGPolyglot said:
black8jac said:

There is nothing wrong with nationalism. Only mixed with xenophobia become ugly.

The core of nationalism itself revolves around an us vs. them mentality of people within a certain nation against those outside of that nation.

I have to disagree. European Union should be Union of Nations not a one country without a face. If we take Nations out of equation we will lose our identity.

I will say it again. The word you looking for is xenophobia. 



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black8jac said:
VGPolyglot said:

The core of nationalism itself revolves around an us vs. them mentality of people within a certain nation against those outside of that nation.

I have to disagree. European Union should be Union of Nations not a one country without a face. If we take Nations out of equation we will lose our identity.

I will say it again. The word you looking for is xenophobia. 

How would you lose your identity? Unless you base your entire identity on your nationality.



VGPolyglot said:
black8jac said:

There is nothing wrong with nationalism. Only mixed with xenophobia become ugly.

The core of nationalism itself revolves around an us vs. them mentality of people within a certain nation against those outside of that nation.

Having an identity isn't the same thing as racism and xenophobia. Are you racist and xenophobic if you don't allow a homeless man to live in your basement? What if they're a minority race?



VGPolyglot said:
black8jac said:

I have to disagree. European Union should be Union of Nations not a one country without a face. If we take Nations out of equation we will lose our identity.

I will say it again. The word you looking for is xenophobia. 

How would you lose your identity? Unless you base your entire identity on your nationality.

Cultural heritage is a huge part of your identity. For a german individual who has had german ancestry going back 500 years that is a big part of their identity. Americans/Canadians have a hard time understanding this, because their identity is new and largely married to multi culturalism. 



contestgamer said:
Helloplite said:

If the standard of measure and comparison is Nazism and the KKK, then that is a very very low standard to compare things to. Incidentally, Nazism in its purest state is not "racist" in the grand scheme of things. Karl Schmitt, the philosopher of Nazism, only argued about the necessity of the friend-enemy relation, the "us" against which a "them" is defined. Schmitt was arguing about the necessity of forcing the nation to be one, in response to previous philosophers such as Plato and Aristotle and the grander debates about democracy. He presented his theory as a form of refined democracy where the people are "made" to speak as one (hint: through the dictator figure of the Chancellor). In his theory, and influenced by Platos distaste of democracy, he argued that the origin of justice is an act of violence. Democracy cannot contain multiple voices because this is its undoing.

 

Hence the Volk, the people who speak as one... By not having to speak at all.

On a similar note, let us not forget the cultural openings of Hitler to muslims, which he thought could be friends and allies to the Reich. "The peoples of Islam will always be closer to us than, for example, France", he said, which is probably the closest thing to a racist and a nationalist calling someone of another identity as a "friend".

But I am digressing here. Ultimately, nationalism nurtures racism, like the sun's light nurtures the shadows cast by it. Nationalism distinguishes people between an us and a them. It is at its core. Racism is the natural outcome.

oh ok, so Nazi's and Hitler aren't racist, only vgchart posters you don't agree with are. Gotcha. Sounds pretty racist to me. 

In fact lets use your logic here:

"On a similar note, let us not forget the cultural openings of Hitler to muslims, which he thought could be friends and allies to the Reich. "The peoples of Islam will always be closer to us than, for example, France", he said, which is probably the closest thing to a racist and a nationalist calling someone of another identity as a "friend"."

A Hitler apologist.... Like every racist ever.

A Hitler apologist? That's amusing. I am not calling those who disagree with me racist. I am calling racist those who are. I even said that comparing VGChartz posters to Nazism is a very low standard indeed, as no one deserves such denigrating comparison.

 

Reading comprehension. Master it for your own good.

 

And to clarify, not for you as you are a lost cause, but to others: Hitler's openings to Muslims, and Carl Schmitt's student being a Jew is the very equivalent of someone saying "I cannot be a racist, my gf/friends are mixed race". 

 

Denial is the first step to ignorance.

Last edited by Helloplite - on 01 May 2018

contestgamer said:
VGPolyglot said:

The core of nationalism itself revolves around an us vs. them mentality of people within a certain nation against those outside of that nation.

Having an identity isn't the same thing as racism and xenophobia. Are you racist and xenophobic if you don't allow a homeless man to live in your basement? What if they're a minority race?

That's the problem right there, you're equating nations with individuals, as if a nation is a living being even though it's an artificial creation. In any case I can't let a homeless man to live in my basement because I don't own my own house.