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How to satiate sexual desires while maintaining respect for women?

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I am not sure how porn can make you think a certain way except horny. Not any more than violent TV and games turns people into ravenous murderers.

I also don't find the argument that porn makes men into misogynists to be at all persuasive. It's clear that the majority of misogynists are anti-porn; you need look no further than TV news shows.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

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Jumpin said:
I am not sure how porn can make you think a certain way except horny. Not any more than violent TV and games turns people into ravenous murderers.

I also don't find the argument that porn makes men into misogynists to be at all persuasive. It's clear that the majority of misogynists are anti-porn; you need look no further than TV news shows.

porn commodifies the bodies of women for the exploitation of men, allowing men to bypass the normal negotiation for consent for sexual access

 

it literally parallels and emulates rape since the man does not have to get to know the woman or anything, its all about sexual access at the click of a button

 

i just cannot understand how its not immediately clear how evil porn is



o_O.Q said:
Jumpin said:
I am not sure how porn can make you think a certain way except horny. Not any more than violent TV and games turns people into ravenous murderers.

I also don't find the argument that porn makes men into misogynists to be at all persuasive. It's clear that the majority of misogynists are anti-porn; you need look no further than TV news shows.

porn commodifies the bodies of women for the exploitation of men, allowing men to bypass the normal negotiation for consent for sexual access

 

it literally parallels and emulates rape since the man does not have to get to know the woman or anything, its all about sexual access at the click of a button

 

i just cannot understand how its not immediately clear how evil porn is

Your missionary work is not going to work here.

Both men and women watch porn, both women and men act in porn. These facts alone destroy your assumptions. Also, there's no bypass of consent for sexual access, contracts are negotiated like any other acting gig. The definition of rape is NOT "having anonymous sex" either. And watching two other people have sex on a screen is NOT having sex with them. Seeing someone naked is not rape by any definition in the world in any place in the history of humanity; the closest it ever got was in the Restoration period England back in the 17th century where women acting (nude or not) was equated to prostitution - and that's also a bit because actresses often took prostitution side-gigs in that era.

The reason you are having trouble understanding is because your premises have no basis in reality. Rather, they sound like they originated in some kind of puritanical cult.

The fact of the matter is that the countries where porn is illegal are also the countries with the most misogynist cultures; these include every country where female genital mutilation is enforced and prevalent, and every country where women lack rights as simple as having uncovered hair.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

o_O.Q said: 

porn commodifies the bodies of women for the exploitation of men, allowing men to bypass the normal negotiation for consent for sexual access

 

it literally parallels and emulates rape since the man does not have to get to know the woman or anything, its all about sexual access at the click of a button

 

i just cannot understand how its not immediately clear how evil porn is

You say this as if women don't watch porn too...

Also... pretty sure rape is having sex with someone without their consent. What you seem to be suggesting is, is that casual sex with someone you're not familiar with is rape...

Last edited by Shaqazooloo0 - on 23 June 2018

Jumpin said:
o_O.Q said:

porn commodifies the bodies of women for the exploitation of men, allowing men to bypass the normal negotiation for consent for sexual access

 

it literally parallels and emulates rape since the man does not have to get to know the woman or anything, its all about sexual access at the click of a button

 

i just cannot understand how its not immediately clear how evil porn is

Your missionary work is not going to work here.

Both men and women watch porn, both women and men act in porn. These facts alone destroy your assumptions. Also, there's no bypass of consent for sexual access, contracts are negotiated like any other acting gig. The definition of rape is NOT "having anonymous sex" either. And watching two other people have sex on a screen is NOT having sex with them. Seeing someone naked is not rape by any definition in the world in any place in the history of humanity; the closest it ever got was in the Restoration period England back in the 17th century where women acting (nude or not) was equated to prostitution - and that's also a bit because actresses often took prostitution side-gigs in that era.

The reason you are having trouble understanding is because your premises have no basis in reality. Rather, they sound like they originated in some kind of puritanical cult.

The fact of the matter is that the countries where porn is illegal are also the countries with the most misogynist cultures; these include every country where female genital mutilation is enforced and prevalent, and every country where women lack rights as simple as having uncovered hair.

"Both men and women watch porn, both women and men act in porn."

which is irrelevant

 

"Also, there's no bypass of consent for sexual access, contracts are negotiated like any other acting gig."

men who consume women's bodies through pornographic imagery do not negotiate with those women for access to their bodies

that's what i'm referring to

ordinarily a man would have to meet a woman and get to know her over a period of time and then progress to sexual activity WITH HER CONSENT

on the other hand when a man watches porn in private he's bypassing the normal preliminary process of getting the know the woman and building trust with her and instead reducing her down to an object with the sole purpose of gratifying him sexually

 

"eeing someone naked is not rape by any definition in the world in any place in the history of humanity"

good thing i didn't say that then

 

"The reason you are having trouble understanding "

understanding what exactly? your defense of pornography?


"The fact of the matter is that the countries where porn is illegal are also the countries with the most misogynist cultures"

there is a rape culture in the west also but this is irrelevant regardless



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o_O.Q said:
Jumpin said:

Your missionary work is not going to work here.

Both men and women watch porn, both women and men act in porn. These facts alone destroy your assumptions. Also, there's no bypass of consent for sexual access, contracts are negotiated like any other acting gig. The definition of rape is NOT "having anonymous sex" either. And watching two other people have sex on a screen is NOT having sex with them. Seeing someone naked is not rape by any definition in the world in any place in the history of humanity; the closest it ever got was in the Restoration period England back in the 17th century where women acting (nude or not) was equated to prostitution - and that's also a bit because actresses often took prostitution side-gigs in that era.

The reason you are having trouble understanding is because your premises have no basis in reality. Rather, they sound like they originated in some kind of puritanical cult.

The fact of the matter is that the countries where porn is illegal are also the countries with the most misogynist cultures; these include every country where female genital mutilation is enforced and prevalent, and every country where women lack rights as simple as having uncovered hair.

"Both men and women watch porn, both women and men act in porn."

which is irrelevant

 

"Also, there's no bypass of consent for sexual access, contracts are negotiated like any other acting gig."

men who consume women's bodies through pornographic imagery do not negotiate with those women for access to their bodies

that's what i'm referring to

ordinarily a man would have to meet a woman and get to know her over a period of time and then progress to sexual activity WITH HER CONSENT

on the other hand when a man watches porn in private he's bypassing the normal preliminary process of getting the know the woman and building trust with her and instead reducing her down to an object with the sole purpose of gratifying him sexually

 

"eeing someone naked is not rape by any definition in the world in any place in the history of humanity"

good thing i didn't say that then

 

"The reason you are having trouble understanding "

understanding what exactly? your defense of pornography?


"The fact of the matter is that the countries where porn is illegal are also the countries with the most misogynist cultures"

there is a rape culture in the west also but this is irrelevant regardless

Just butting in for a second, ands not really focusing on your arguments, which are nonsense, but why the focus on men?Woman watch porn too, you know.Almost as much, if you believe studies.



Shaqazooloo0 said:

o_O.Q said: 

porn commodifies the bodies of women for the exploitation of men, allowing men to bypass the normal negotiation for consent for sexual access

 

it literally parallels and emulates rape since the man does not have to get to know the woman or anything, its all about sexual access at the click of a button

 

i just cannot understand how its not immediately clear how evil porn is

You say this as if women don't watch porn too...

Also... pretty sure rape is having sex with someone without their consent. What you seem to be suggesting is, is that casual sex with someone you're not familiar with is rape...

is it impossible for women to objectify women? what kind of argument is that?

 

i said it emulates rape since rape is the objectification of women for sexual gratification... as is porn



Nautilus said:
o_O.Q said:

"Both men and women watch porn, both women and men act in porn."

which is irrelevant

 

"Also, there's no bypass of consent for sexual access, contracts are negotiated like any other acting gig."

men who consume women's bodies through pornographic imagery do not negotiate with those women for access to their bodies

that's what i'm referring to

ordinarily a man would have to meet a woman and get to know her over a period of time and then progress to sexual activity WITH HER CONSENT

on the other hand when a man watches porn in private he's bypassing the normal preliminary process of getting the know the woman and building trust with her and instead reducing her down to an object with the sole purpose of gratifying him sexually

 

"eeing someone naked is not rape by any definition in the world in any place in the history of humanity"

good thing i didn't say that then

 

"The reason you are having trouble understanding "

understanding what exactly? your defense of pornography?


"The fact of the matter is that the countries where porn is illegal are also the countries with the most misogynist cultures"

there is a rape culture in the west also but this is irrelevant regardless

Just butting in for a second, ands not really focusing on your arguments, which are nonsense, but why the focus on men?Woman watch porn too, you know.Almost as much, if you believe studies.

objectification can also be practiced by women... the fact that all 3 of you don't get that shows a fundamental lack of understanding of the problem

 

this is what privilege does to men ... it blinds them to what women have to put up with in this patriarchal society day after day



o_O.Q said:
Nautilus said:

Just butting in for a second, ands not really focusing on your arguments, which are nonsense, but why the focus on men?Woman watch porn too, you know.Almost as much, if you believe studies.

objectification can also be practiced by women... the fact that all 3 of you don't get that shows a fundamental lack of understanding of the problem

 

this is what privilege does to men ... it blinds them to what women have to put up with in this patriarchal society day after day

You say it applies to both(so all this argument about rape and all is a sin commit by both gender by extent) and yet you go on to focus on men again, as if only we do these 'heinous' things.

I just find this hipocrisy amusing, thats all.



Nautilus said:
o_O.Q said:

objectification can also be practiced by women... the fact that all 3 of you don't get that shows a fundamental lack of understanding of the problem

 

this is what privilege does to men ... it blinds them to what women have to put up with in this patriarchal society day after day

You say it applies to both(so all this argument about rape and all is a sin commit by both gender by extent) and yet you go on to focus on men again, as if only we do these 'heinous' things.

I just find this hipocrisy amusing, thats all.

context is important, why do we need feminism? because for centuries women were subjugated and oppressed by men

much of this has been corrected in the present day but there are still many ways in which women are oppressed by society

that's the context this issue is nested in

for pete's sake society still tells women that their main value is derived from their looks when they are young and fertile

 

your thinking is fallacious because its nested in the idea that men and women are treated equally by society and there is no disparity in the degrees to which both groups are oppressed

and come on that's absolutely ridiculous