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Forums - Gaming Discussion - What happened to "SQAURE ENIX" after Ps2 era?

AngryLittleAlchemist said:

I'm guessing Thief is one of said games?

Thief (2014) is garbage, I haven't played it, but I haven't seen any positive review on it. The original from 1998 is one of my fav games.



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Hiku said:

For some reason I was always under the impression that it had something in common with Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Survivor. In that game you can see a counter above people's heads that shows how many days they have left to live. I didn't play enough of it to know how exactly you'll be able to intervene with their fate in order to help them survive, but it might have been the mind reading in TWEWY that I was thinking of. Or maybe it's the Tokyo setting.
Either way, I knew there was some unique mechanic like that, and the mind reading sounds pretty interesting.
I'll look into the pins because I'm not sure if they are expendable attacks (like magic in FFVIII) or some type of permanent upgrade that gives you access to new abilities.
I do like the ability of changing difficulty at any point in the game. I used that in Nier: Automata a few times when I wanted the enemies to get stronger while I was farming them for certain drops. One function that isn't in Nier though that I would have liked is the ability to lower my own level, because while farming I inevitably gain EXP and level up, and I didn't really want to do that at some points.

Pins function in different manners, but most of them are activated via touch controls. Some pins let you shoot projectiles if you tap empty space, for example. Or slash across an enemy and Neku will slash it in the game. There are tons of different actions, I'm actually pretty impressed how creative the inputs are. One even requires you to shout into the microphone.

The resemble towards SMT might derive from the story - kind of. I won't spoil too much, but apparently the main characters participate in some kind of game, against their will, of which they cannot esacpe. It consists of various challenges across a timespan of seven days. At the end, only one can win and everyone else will be erased. So this is pretty heavy shit there.

You last paragraph is interesting: what is your motivation to stay on a low level? Do you like the challenge? I see this in Xenoblade Chronicles in a somehow similar way. Your level grows with experience points gained in battles, but you get far more of those in the background by other factors. The game lets you decide then how many levels you want to rise when you sleep in an inn instead. I always rise as fast as I can :D



m0ney said:
AngryLittleAlchemist said:

I'm guessing Thief is one of said games?

Thief (2014) is garbage, I haven't played it, but I haven't seen any positive review on it. The original from 1998 is one of my fav games.

I know. I was joking.

 

The properties Square bought were all excellent, bit you'd be hard pressed to justify it as one of the best moves ever. Seeing as how the properties they bought were """"""too niche"""""" to """"""sell well""""""  by their standards (Thief, Hitman, Dues Ex). 



Hiku said:
GoOnKid said:

1.) Pins function in different manners, but most of them are activated via touch controls. Some pins let you shoot projectiles if you tap empty space, for example. Or slash across an enemy and Neku will slash it in the game. There are tons of different actions, I'm actually pretty impressed how creative the inputs are. One even requires you to shout into the microphone.

2.) The resemble towards SMT might derive from the story - kind of. I won't spoil too much, but apparently the main characters participate in some kind of game, against their will, of which they cannot esacpe. It consists of various challenges across a timespan of seven days. At the end, only one can win and everyone else will be erased. So this is pretty heavy shit there.

3.) You last paragraph is interesting: what is your motivation to stay on a low level? Do you like the challenge? I see this in Xenoblade Chronicles in a somehow similar way. Your level grows with experience points gained in battles, but you get far more of those in the background by other factors. The game lets you decide then how many levels you want to rise when you sleep in an inn instead. I always rise as fast as I can :D

1.) I like it when games introduce new and unique battle mechanics as you progress through the game. I was wondering if the pins have limited uses though? As in after you use the function it gives you a few times, you lose the pin and have to get a new one?

2.) Is your description there of SMT: DS or TWEWY?

3.) Well for two reasons. For one, I kind of like still being able to level up, and feeling like I am making some progress. Once you get to lvl 99 that no longer happens. Secondly is I often don't like it when I get too overpowered, and things die in one hit. Some enemies in this game level scale based on your level. But some don't, and have a set level.
The game has three different "level up" systems.

One is from the weapons. They have their own stats and abilities, and you can upgrade them to increase those stats, abilities and amount of hits they can do in a combo:



The second is an equip-based ability system. You are allowed a certain amount of space for these abilities, so you can't equip every single ability in the game. Not even close. You'll have to pick and chose. If you like Movement Speed, that will take up a certain amount of space. If you want the ability to slow down time when you're near an enemy projectile, that takes up space. Etc.
These abilities can be upgraded up to lvl 8, but they also drop with a random cost value. If a skill is marked with a diamond icon, it means it has the lowest possible cost value. Those are the ones you want to use for best cost efficiency, so you can fit as many skills as possible.



Getting the diamond types to drop takes time while farming, as they are the rarest versions, and because you can only level them up by combining two of the same skills, you'll need to get a good number of diamonds if you want the strongest versions. This results in me lvling up in the process.

And the third system is a traditional level up system, where each level increases your stats a certain amount.

All these three systems combined can result in situations like this:

I'm not lvl 99 yet like this person (I'm lvl 80) but I get the same results in this area now because the enemies are always lvl 45 in this spot. And this is an end game area.
What's happening on the screen is the player is using their secondary support weapon, which fires projectiles. It's generally a lot weaker than the primary weapons you hold in your hand (Swords, Lances, Fist weapons, etc). But as you can see they're not necessary to use here as the weaker projectile beams are taking everything out with ease.

Mind you this was not an issue while playing through the story. But after fully beating the game you are given access to "Chapter Select" which lets you jump to any chapter or subchapter whenever you want. That's when I began farming for certain skills, but I'm lvling up in the process while I would rather do that when I go on quests that I've not yet completed. I just wanted to upgrade some skills first.
There are areas in the game designed to give you a challenge after you've beaten the game (some of which are only accessible after you beat the game) so this is not always an issue. And frankly, for the purpose of farming such as in the example above, I like that things die in one hit. But there are other times when I wish I could take away the levels I earned while farming. Not sure if it would make much of a difference though, but yeah.

I can at any point raise the difficulty level though. But last time I raised the difficulty I went from being able to take c.a. 5 hits to dying in 1 hit. And that was raising it from Normal to Hard. There's also a Very Hard difficulty setting. Not sure what would happen if I changed it now, but I will try it next time I play.

1) It's rather semi-limited. In the beginning you can wear three pins at a time during battles, but with further progress you can wear up to six, but each of these three to six pins must function in a different way. You can only have one pin for slashing, one for shooting projectiles, one for creating ice pillars, one for flames, etc. While you use them in battle, they have a certain amount of times they can be used, like say 10 slashes for example, and then turn grey and need a certain amount of time to become usable again. So you get encouraged to mix up your fighting techniques and not spam one single attack the whole time. The combat is quite hectic because often times you are surrounded by mutliple enemies with different moves, attacks and patterns and you need to keep an eye on all of them simultaneously.

Now all of this is only happening on the lower screen of the DS. I didn't mention the top screen yet. That's where your partner character fights at the same time against the same set of enemies. Your partner acts autonomously, but you can intervene at any time and input combat commands and moves yourself. You share one single health bar, so you need to look on both screens most of the time. On the other hand, all enemies share the same health bar across both screens, too. So let's say you fight against a snake and a bear and both characters attack the snake on each of their respective screens, the snake gets damage from both characters. It's kind of hard to explain with written words. Actions speak louder in this case.

TWEWY also features multiple level systems. Like most rpgs, you grind by killing enemies and with rising levels your basic stats rise. Furthermore, each pin can level up, too, and gains higher stats with higher levels. Also, sometimes when levelling up a pin may transform into a new, different pin. Next, your basic stats can grow additionally by eating food. Each food item must be digested before it grants its' enhancements. A double burger, for example, rasies your max hp by 16 and goes down in 13 bites - one battle equals one bite. This is very creative, I think. Also, you can only eat one meal at a time, so you need to wait for the next day in real time before you eat something new, otherwise your character refuses to eat more because he's stuffed. Soft drinks and ice cream can still be consumed, though, even if your character is stuffed already.

Another thing is clothes. They grant higher stats, like def+3 for example, and need to be bought in various shops across the entire city. Every shop owner has a level system. The more you buy from them, the more their level grows and the more likely they are to explain to you what kind of effects certain pieces of clothes feature. Because these effects are hidden to you, you must first 'make friends' with the shop keeper to get his trust and to let him explain you stuff.

2) That's the description of TWEWY.

3) I knew I wanted to play Nier: Automata one day, but you cemented it. I will buy this game. Thank you very much, all of this sounds very interesting. Also, this 'chapter select' feature sounds so typical of Platinum Games. Other games from them like the Bayonettas, The Wonderful 101 and Star Fox Zero feature this as well.

Last edited by GoOnKid - on 17 April 2018

Hiku said:
AlfredoTurkey said:
Square died the moment they became Square-Enix. The last great FF was the last one released under just the Square name.

We have a big FFX-2 fan here I see.

Ah? But this is a great FF.



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Hiku said:
AlfredoTurkey said:
Square died the moment they became Square-Enix. The last great FF was the last one released under just the Square name.

We have a big FFX-2 fan here I see.

On the bottom right of the US release, I see that little special hyphenated word...



AlfredoTurkey said:
Hiku said:

We have a big FFX-2 fan here I see.

On the bottom right of the US release, I see that little special hyphenated word...

But it was produced and originally released under Squaresoft...



Hiku said:
AlfredoTurkey said:

On the bottom right of the US release, I see that little special hyphenated word...

You said: "The last great FF was the last one released under just the Square name."

FFX-2 fall under the category of the last great FF game released, by your criteria.
It was also released under Square Enix in the west, but none the lest it was released as just Squaresoft as well.

First off, that is not a great game and this is coming from someone who considers FFX their favorite. It's a bubble-gum, girl quest with pop music, giggles and rainbows. I remember when it came out because I bought it when it came out, thinking I was getting an epic sequel to an epic game. I can remember the fall out online... the whole bait-and-switch outcry. It wasn't well received by fans.

Second, Square merged with Enix officially in 2003 which means they were doing the deal sometime in 2002. They had already merged officially when that game dropped in the US... so even if YOU think it's great (I will forever question your opinions if that is true), it still wasn't released solely under the Square name. 

The Enix thing marked, as I said, a turning point. It showed that the suits were taking a different approach... and history proved that correct when all of their long time talent fled for greener pastors and their FF games continued to decline in quality.



AngryLittleAlchemist said:
Yeah, I guess after the Ps2 Era, they just couldn't replicate something as good as The Bouncer ever again.

LOL, good one.  But for a early PS2 game The Bouncer was actually halfway decent.



I'd say that it's exaggerated, there are still some great titles released by them.