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Phil Spencer Respond About The state of Xbox One First party Exclusives and The Answer is Sad

Forums - Gaming Discussion - Phil Spencer Respond About The state of Xbox One First party Exclusives and The Answer is Sad

How do you feel

XBOX One will get a great... 8 10.26%
 
I don't care win or loose... 9 11.54%
 
Ouya master race 6 7.69%
 
I quit supporting Xbox 35 44.87%
 
I don't care i own every ... 7 8.97%
 
see result 13 16.67%
 
Total:78

LudicrousSpeed said:

Marketing, sure. PS4 has a giant lead so it makes sense that companies would be signing with Sony, it would cost MS a ton of money to outbid them for those games. But third party software? That hasn’t slowed down for Xbone. It’s the same as it was for the most part last gen, PlayStation gets the de facto standard Japanese stuff that is mostly niche, Xbox gets everything else. I mean, what has Xbone missed this gen? Some JRPGs. You make it sound as if Bethesda or something has stopped making Xbone games. 

Third party has pretty much saved both consoles imho. Just from a personal standpoint.

COKTOE said:

It's missed more than some RPG's. Sure, a majority of these games are smaller titles, but just in my own collection, there are games that aren't RPG's. EDF 4.1 for example. That whole series appears to be moving forward as PS4 console exclusives now, with EDF 5 and Iron Rain seemingly having no future on Xbox. I'm sure somebody with more energy than me could site more games from other genres. Xbox third party support is really good though. There's no denying that.

Japanese style games most certainly don't have the same presence on XB1 as the 360 did. I'm not saying XB1 third party is non existent or sucks, I'm just saying based on the growth the 360 had, the XB1 has at least stagnated, whether it be niche or not. You can say niche is useless and meaningless, but the truth is it's not. Every penny and every game/genre counts if you want to be on top.

When you see XB cancelling titles like Scalebound, which would have been an exclusive, but through a Japanese third party, it clearly shows the lack of interest XB has in overall diversity, and certain regions, which doesn't make it a surprise that they haven't been given as much overall third party support. I do agree without third party this gen, neither console would be doing near as well as it is, but XB1 most certainly would be in much worse shape without those third parties.

When you also see studios like Bungie, through Activision, favoring PS4 right from the start with Destiny and timed exclusivity, it has to make you wonder if that was solely money and marketing or did it have to do with XB and MS as a company in general? XB has lost some trust in the console community, and not just the customers, and your seeing the outcome of it in different ways through third party.

The fact that XB complained about PS locking up third party games or their DLC, only to then lock up PUBG on XB, and having it overtaken by Fortnite, mostly on PS, and the fact that now XB is constantly complaining that PS won't allow cross play on Fortnite, yet XB seems to be in no rush whatsoever to get PUBG on PS4, just screams that XB is not the uber friendly gamer oriented company they make themselves out to be. Insomniac and Sunset Overdrive, and now Spiderman on PS4, is another decent example. It's not hard to see why third party support isn't near as strong as it could be on XB1.

I'm legitimately baffled as to why you quoted me.



Chinese food for breakfast

 

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JRPGfan said:
thismeintiel said:

Took Sony 10 years? Do what? No, Sony has always been pumping out good 1st party stuff. Sure, they hit a slight stall at the beginning of the PS3 era, which we can chalk up to HD development learning, which also happened to Nintendo.

It's just the same old BS, journalists making excuses for Xbox, just like with the power disparity from the beginning of the gen. MS actually started strong with 1st party development this gen. It's just Xbox is no longer a #1 priority for MS, so they are cutting down on 1st party development and on buying 3rd party exclusives. Maybe they'll try again next gen, but if XB2 experiences a similar fate, they will ramp down, again. And if it performs worse, they may just be done altogether. At least as far as consoles are concerned.

I think he means opening studio's and growing talent within them, so they have developers able to do a game thats a 95 on metacritic. He saying that talent in the studios didnt just magically appear, sony grew the studios and the talent.

I think Phil is saying the same,....  give us time to open some studios and grow some talent in them.
But if this was true, why havnt we heard about MS buying some studios? or forming some new ones?

It could just be "empty" talk.... or maybe they have bought studios and just not announced them to the world yet?

It comes off sounding like : Phil - "Next gen we ll be better"  (but why should it? he doesnt explain "why")

meanwhile at Sony:
1) announce they ll invest more going forwards (next gen) into game developement than they have this gen.
2) theyre opening up a new big budget studio (could be the first of many)

But, the problem with that statement is that Sony has been growing devs and IPs, even ones they don't outright own, since the PS1 days. 

For studios, you have Japan Studio, which made Ape Escape and LOD.  There's Polyphony Digital, which made Omega Boost and GT 1&2.  Naughty Dog, who made the OG Crash trilogy and CTR.  Bend, who made the Syphon Filter Trilogy on PS1.  You had 989 Studios, who basically is San Diego Studios, now, which made their sports titles.  London Studio, that made their first two NBA Shootout games.  Clap Hanz, that develops the Everybody's Golf series.  Insomniac, that developed the OG Spyro trilogy.  Media.Vision, who made Wild Arms 1&2.  Idol Minds, now Deck Nine, who got their start making Cool Boarders titles.  They even created a studio, Foster City Studio, just for helping 3rd party devs when developing Sony owned IPs.

Then, there are Sony owned IPs created during the PS1 era, that the studios are no longer around that originally developed them.  Alundra, Blasto, Jet Moto, Jumping Flash, Kingsley's Adventure (listed that one mainly for me), MediEvil, PaRappa, Tomba, Twisted Metal, and Warhawk, to name a few.

Of course, as we know, as you go on through the PS2-PS4 gens, many studios and IPs joined those ranks.  Sony has just always been about pumping out tons of IPs, giving new devs a chance.  Some work.  Others do not.  The point is, this has been happening since the beginning and it has continued.  What we are seeing from MS is that they are losing their passion for this business.  When Sony hit hard times with the PS3, they buckled down and continued their strategy, while trying to quickly get HW costs down.  MS doesn't even have the high costs problem, but they seem to be abandoning spending money on new IPs, or even many of their existing ones.

I do see it as empty talk.  Do I think MS is going to give it another strong go next gen?  Yes, for the first year or so.  But, if XB2 sees the same fate as the XBO, I have no doubt that their content will once again dry up.  And if it befalls a worse fate, I'm not really sure they will stick to the console business.  And with Sony firing on all cylinders, getting out a powerful PS5 for $399 in the next 1 1/2-2 years, and MS showing they have little direction for the Xbox brand other then GAAS and microtransactions, I don't think the future looks bright for them next gen.

Last edited by thismeintiel - on 16 April 2018

Oneeee-Chan!!! said:

Monster Hunter world will sell more than Halo 5.

But that's already on Xbox. So I don't really get the point...



Bet with Intrinsic:

The Switch will outsell 3DS (based on VGchartz numbers), according to me, while Intrinsic thinks the opposite will hold true. One month avatar control for the loser's avatar.

flashfire926 said:
EricHiggin said:

They had Bungie during 360 and lost them, as first party. They had Insomniac and Sunset Overdrive as third party exclusive, and have basically lost them both. PS has exclusivity deals as well yes, they just don't go around complaining about the exclusive deals XB makes.

Just because XB decided to disregard most Japanese games this gen, that no longer counts anymore as a third party loss? By that logic, XB hasn't lost any games, customers, studios or anything, because their choices led to where they are I guess?

XB can choose to go any direction they like, but you can't say they haven't lost anything, if they've decided to leave something out they once had, that helped to make their previous platform great. It may not have made them a tonne of money directly on paper, but sometimes you literally have to lose in order to win overall.

MS also has the money to allow XB to basically buy the entire console gaming market outright if they want, directly, or indirectly. Yet they haven't, and why not, if console gaming is so darn important to them?

But you said compared to the 360 gen, and xbox didnt have  insomniac game then. So how exactly did they "lose them". You said that it's  compared to the 360. 

And I never denied that they lost bungie. But did bungie games stop coming to Xbox? Nope. Xbox doesn't complain about times exclusivity games, they complain about exclusive content for a specific version. Two very different things.

niche Japanese games just don't matter to Xbox user base outside of hardcore/forum goers like us. It's only a small chunk of change. 

Insomniac was mentioned well below and separate of the 360 remark and was in with the part about PUBG, having to do with this gen. I never said anything about you denying Bungie going third party, and Destiny did land on 360 and XB1 as well, but with different types of exclusivity for PS3 and PS4. Doesn't matter what exclusivity XB complains about exactly, they went out and made sure PUBG ended up exclusive to XB in terms of consoles. Well if XB only cares about the customers who like to buy the big sellers, they are always going to have trouble with third party support then, because they will never grow their user base large enough to compete with PS. Which would fit my initial description of where they are putting their priorities and why.



The Canadian National Anthem According To Justin Trudeau

 

Oh planet Earth! The home of native lands, 
True social law, in all of us demand.
With cattle farts, we view sea rise,
Our North sinking slowly.
From far and snide, oh planet Earth, 
Our healthcare is yours free!
Science save our land, harnessing the breeze,
Oh planet Earth, smoke weed and ferment yeast.
Oh planet Earth, ell gee bee queue and tee.

thismeintiel said:
EricHiggin said: 

MS also has the money to allow XB to basically buy the entire console gaming market outright if they want, directly, or indirectly. Yet they haven't, and why not, if console gaming is so darn important to them?

It doesn't really matter how much money MS has, they can't just buy marketshare.  They have proved this over and over again.  Usually getting into markets way too late, then throwing a bunch of money at their product, only to barely gain marketshare.  Sometimes they still stay in.  Others they just retreat.  It's why shareholders have been very vocal about them sticking to what they know and only expanding when it makes sense.

Guess it depends on how much money XB is truly spending and how hard is XB really trying though? It may be no different then meddling in other countries elections. Nobody is there to physically take over, their just trying to get their way without actually having to do all the work. Maybe XB just doesn't get it, and maybe their just not trying because that's good enough.



The Canadian National Anthem According To Justin Trudeau

 

Oh planet Earth! The home of native lands, 
True social law, in all of us demand.
With cattle farts, we view sea rise,
Our North sinking slowly.
From far and snide, oh planet Earth, 
Our healthcare is yours free!
Science save our land, harnessing the breeze,
Oh planet Earth, smoke weed and ferment yeast.
Oh planet Earth, ell gee bee queue and tee.

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Sounds about right. It takes time to build an eco system. I remember Steam at launch on how much of a let down that was and no body wanted it. Its clear MS are trying to do a Steam/Blizzard economy. Transfering all there games to the Live service (Steam) and building upon games as a life style/service (Blizzard).
It will be interesting to see how they preform now after the X released and the BC program, cross play feature and Live service is progressing well.
This E3 will be very interesting.

Last edited by Azzanation - on 17 April 2018

Oneeee-Chan!!! said:

Monster Hunter world will sell more than Halo 5.

"Sounds like some Japanese niche stuff to me."  

Im not sure why people knock games simply because they come from a non western country.
I remember this with Persona 5,.... people saying it was just "japanese niche crap".... I honestly dont care, fantastic game.



thismeintiel said:
JRPGfan said:

I think he means opening studio's and growing talent within them, so they have developers able to do a game thats a 95 on metacritic. He saying that talent in the studios didnt just magically appear, sony grew the studios and the talent.

I think Phil is saying the same,....  give us time to open some studios and grow some talent in them.
But if this was true, why havnt we heard about MS buying some studios? or forming some new ones?

It could just be "empty" talk.... or maybe they have bought studios and just not announced them to the world yet?

It comes off sounding like : Phil - "Next gen we ll be better"  (but why should it? he doesnt explain "why")

meanwhile at Sony:
1) announce they ll invest more going forwards (next gen) into game developement than they have this gen.
2) theyre opening up a new big budget studio (could be the first of many)

But, the problem with that statement is that Sony has been growing devs and IPs, even ones they don't outright own, since the PS1 days. 

For studios, you have Japan Studio, which made Ape Escape and LOD.  There's Polyphony Digital, which made Omega Boost and GT 1&2.  Naughty Dog, who made the OG Crash trilogy and CTR.  Bend, who made the Syphon Filter Trilogy on PS1.  You had 989 Studios, who basically is San Diego Studios, now, which made their sports titles.  London Studio, that made their first two NBA Shootout games.  Clap Hanz, that develops the Everybody's Golf series.  Insomniac, that developed the OG Spyro trilogy.  Media.Vision, who made Wild Arms 1&2.  Idol Minds, now Deck Nine, who got their start making Cool Boarders titles.  They even created a studio, Foster City Studio, just for helping 3rd party devs when developing Sony owned IPs.

Then, there are Sony owned IPs created during the PS1 era, that the studios are no longer around that originally developed them.  Alundra, Blasto, Jet Moto, Jumping Flash, Kingsley's Adventure (listed that one mainly for me), MediEvil, PaRappa, Tomba, Twisted Metal, and Warhawk, to name a few.

Of course, as we know, as you go on through the PS2-PS4 gens, many studios and IPs joined those ranks.  Sony has just always been about pumping out tons of IPs, giving new devs a chance.  Some work.  Others do not.  The point is, this has been happening since the beginning and it has continued.  What we are seeing from MS is that they are losing their passion for this business.  When Sony hit hard times with the PS3, they buckled down and continued their strategy, while trying to quickly get HW costs down.  MS doesn't even have the high costs problem, but they seem to be abandoning spending money on new IPs, or even many of their existing ones.

I do see it as empty talk.  Do I think MS is going to give it another strong go next gen?  Yes, for the first year or so.  But, if XB2 sees the same fate as the XBO, I have no doubt that their content will once again dry up.  And if it befalls a worse fate, I'm not really sure they will stick to the console business.  And with Sony firing on all cylinders, getting out a powerful PS5 for $399 in the next 1 1/2-2 years, and MS showing they have little direction for the Xbox brand other then GAAS and microtransactions, I don't think the future looks bright for them next gen.

Yeah maybe MS needs something simular? a MS version of a Foster City.

I thought it was empty talk too, but yesterday/today? they announced they got that new dude Darrell Gallagher, and he has experiance enough to run a new big budget IP studio, if MS wanna let him. So next gen, they ll have another big one than just halo/forza/gears.

Your right about your point that it seems like Sony is much better (than ms) at fostering studios to grow, and also at just letting them try new things if they want too.



The fact that this thread has gone on for as long as it has and that there is so much strife within it, is really just proof of what the real issue is here.

The fans.

MS can be where they are now and get away with it because there are loyalists that will supportthem for whatever reason.

The simple indisputable fact of the matter is that since the tail end of the 360 platform, MS first party and second party output has dwindled.

Outside the odd indie game, MS pretty much has one major game launched every year right now and those aren't even always new IPs. I am not making this up, its clear and there for all to see, but instead of the Xbox fans take this up with heads of the brand, they are here defending them. on twiter supporting them.

I will never understand it.

And they say stupid things like "ohh but sony has lost devs too or closed down studios or lost exclusives", yes; sony can damn well afford to do that when each year they are still releasing like 3-5 exclusives. Consistently, and some of which are even new IPs. MS has gears/halo/forza and still somehow manages to be closing studios and cancelling games...... yet its fans doesn't see there is a problem somewhere?

I really don't get it.

MS needs games. Simple as that. Its ok if they are content with being a me too platform. Where the near entirety of their library and must haves are games that exist on their rivals platform. But if thats not what they are after, then they simply need games. And they need studios to do that. Or at the very least good partnerships.

I would sooner support a platform that can say we do the same and will give you different, than one that will say we do the same and sometimes maybe better of the same.



I remember x360 being way ahead from ps3 2005 - 2009. With tons of exclusives in rpg, fps, even rts. Whut happend?