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Forums - Sony Discussion - The PS4 really should have backwards compatibility!

Conina on 11 April 2018
The_Liquid_Laser said:

GBA had N-Gage as competition.  It is not much competition, but it is competition.  Switch will have PS5 and XBox4 (or whatever they call it) as competitors so it is too early to call it a winner.  And you left out a whole pile of losers.  There are tons and tons, but if I just point out Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft and Sega, then it looks like this.

Winners that chose to forego BC: SNES, PS4 
Winners that chose to include BC: PS2, Wii, GBA, DS, 3DS

Losers that chose to forego BC: N64, Saturn, Virtual Boy, DreamCast, GameCube, PS3*, PS Vita
Losers that chose to include BC: Genesis, XBox360, XB1, Wii U

*the vast majority of PS3s sold were not backwards compatible with PS2 games.

The list of winners has a lot more consoles that are backwards compatible.  The list of losers has a lot more consoles that are not backwards compatible.  Sega and Microsoft never had a console that was #1 for the generation, but their most successful consoles were the Genesis and Xbox360, respectively.  Both of these consoles have backwards compatibility.  

The data clearly shows that backwards compatibility strongly correlates with success.  For a site dedicated to looking at sales data, there seems to be a surprising number of people who really resent what the data says.

I wouldn't call PS3 + Xbox 360 "losers"... they both sold more than 80 million untis (each more than 80% of the winner) and both sold more software than the Wii. It's as close as it can get for that generation.

The_Liquid_Laser said:

The data clearly shows that backwards compatibility strongly correlates with success.  For a site dedicated to looking at sales data, there seems to be a surprising number of people who really resent what the data says.

No it doesn't. Without handhelds it is a tie on home consoles.

And in handheld space, GBA, DS and 3DS would probably have won even without BC due to strong software support.

Or do you really think N-Gage, PSP and Vita would have won if the Nintendo handhelds didn't have BC?



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flashfire926 on 11 April 2018
The_Liquid_Laser said:
Pemalite said:

 

You are conflating separate issues entirely. And that is a logical fallacy.


Details?

Conina said:

As much as I love BC in consoles... it doesn't seem to be a deciding factor for most people, especially nowadays (PS4 & Switch & Wii U).

If you include GBA as a winner (although it had no dedicated handhelds as competition), Switch should be included, too.

So it is more like:

Winners that chose to forego BC: SNES, PS4, Switch
Winners that chose to include BC: PS2, Wii, GBA, DS, 3DS

Losers that chose to forego BC: Saturn, DreamCast, GameCube
Losers that chose to include BC: PS Vita, Wii U

GBA had N-Gage as competition.  It is not much competition, but it is competition.  Switch will have PS5 and XBox4 (or whatever they call it) as competitors so it is too early to call it a winner.  And you left out a whole pile of losers.  There are tons and tons, but if I just point out Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft and Sega, then it looks like this.

Winners that chose to forego BC: SNES, PS4 
Winners that chose to include BC: PS2, Wii, GBA, DS, 3DS

Losers that chose to forego BC: N64, Saturn, Virtual Boy, DreamCast, GameCube, PS3*, PS Vita
Losers that chose to include BC: Genesis, XBox360, XB1, Wii U

*the vast majority of PS3s sold were not backwards compatible with PS2 games.

The list of winners has a lot more consoles that are backwards compatible.  The list of losers has a lot more consoles that are not backwards compatible.  Sega and Microsoft never had a console that was #1 for the generation, but their most successful consoles were the Genesis and Xbox360, respectively.  Both of these consoles have backwards compatibility.  

The data clearly shows that backwards compatibility strongly correlates with success.  For a site dedicated to looking at sales data, there seems to be a surprising number of people who really resent what the data says.

Btw all PS3's (even the slim/super slim) can play PS1 discs.



Bet with Intrinsic:

The Switch will outsell 3DS (based on VGchartz numbers), according to me, while Intrinsic thinks the opposite will hold true. One month avatar control for the loser's avatar.

Pemalite on 11 April 2018
DonFerrari said:

If there really were million valuating BC the sales of PS3 and X1 should have seem a more noticeable impact

Who was to say that the millions of initial console sales weren't influenced by Backwards Compatibility? I am not saying that they had a direct relationship, just an influence.

I know when the Playstation 2 came along, my parents were deciding on getting it because it could play PS1 games.
I never played on it though, I was strictly PC gaming at the time and went with the OG Xbox for it's Pixel Shader effects.

Besides, it took a long time for Sony to remove backwards compat, they even opted for software-based approaches as they eliminated hardware ones in a quest to reduce costs.

The_Liquid_Laser said:


Details?

That the winner of a generation is because of backwards compatibility?

Correlation doesn't equate to causation.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

The_Liquid_Laser on 11 April 2018
Pemalite said:

 

The_Liquid_Laser said:


Details?

That the winner of a generation is because of backwards compatibility?

Correlation doesn't equate to causation.

I always said "correlate".  I never said "cause".



curl-6 bet me that PS5 + X|S sales would reach 56m before year end 2023 and he was right.
My Bet With curl-6

My Threads:
Master Thread, Game of the Year/Decade
Switch Will Be #1 All Time
Zelda Will Outsell Mario (Achieved)
How Much Will MH Rise sell?
My Bet With Metallox

DonFerrari on 12 April 2018
Pemalite said:
DonFerrari said:

If there really were million valuating BC the sales of PS3 and X1 should have seem a more noticeable impact

Who was to say that the millions of initial console sales weren't influenced by Backwards Compatibility? I am not saying that they had a direct relationship, just an influence.

I know when the Playstation 2 came along, my parents were deciding on getting it because it could play PS1 games.
I never played on it though, I was strictly PC gaming at the time and went with the OG Xbox for it's Pixel Shader effects.

Besides, it took a long time for Sony to remove backwards compat, they even opted for software-based approaches as they eliminated hardware ones in a quest to reduce costs.

The_Liquid_Laser said:

Details?

That the winner of a generation is because of backwards compatibility?
Correlation doesn't equate to causation.

X1 and X1X got BC (for over a year) and the needle didn't move as well. You are acting just as Liquid Laser on supposing there is this big market on consoles where BC is a very important aspect.

BC is a convinience, but so far haven't ever be really major. Most people go there and buy less than 10 games on a full generation, still probably almost a million end up buying 100 games... the market still focus more on the other 99% of the market.

The_Liquid_Laser said:
Pemalite said:

 

That the winner of a generation is because of backwards compatibility?

Correlation doesn't equate to causation.

I always said "correlate".  I never said "cause".

During this gen more people have turn vegetarian or vegan... there is a strong correlation between PS4 and veganism... this is how you sound.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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The_Liquid_Laser on 12 April 2018
DonFerrari said:

The_Liquid_Laser said:

I always said "correlate".  I never said "cause".

During this gen more people have turn vegetarian or vegan... there is a strong correlation between PS4 and veganism... this is how you sound.

Vegan has nothing to do with gaming.  Backwards compatibility does have to do with gaming.  Try again.



curl-6 bet me that PS5 + X|S sales would reach 56m before year end 2023 and he was right.
My Bet With curl-6

My Threads:
Master Thread, Game of the Year/Decade
Switch Will Be #1 All Time
Zelda Will Outsell Mario (Achieved)
How Much Will MH Rise sell?
My Bet With Metallox

DonFerrari on 12 April 2018
The_Liquid_Laser said:
DonFerrari said:

During this gen more people have turn vegetarian or vegan... there is a strong correlation between PS4 and veganism... this is how you sound.

Vegan has nothing to do with gaming.  Backwards compatibility does have to do with gaming.  Try again.

Still just because two variables in the same space have varied similarly doesn't mean they are correlated...

When you also have strong evidence that without that variable or in opposition you also had similar results you can't say they are correlated



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

The_Liquid_Laser on 12 April 2018
DonFerrari said:
The_Liquid_Laser said:

Vegan has nothing to do with gaming.  Backwards compatibility does have to do with gaming.  Try again.

Still just because two variables in the same space have varied similarly doesn't mean they are correlated...

When you also have strong evidence that without that variable or in opposition you also had similar results you can't say they are correlated

What is this "strong evidence" you speak of?  Please be specific.  It's already clear that the majority of winners have BC, and the majority of losers don't have BC.  You must be referring to something else.  What is it?



curl-6 bet me that PS5 + X|S sales would reach 56m before year end 2023 and he was right.
My Bet With curl-6

My Threads:
Master Thread, Game of the Year/Decade
Switch Will Be #1 All Time
Zelda Will Outsell Mario (Achieved)
How Much Will MH Rise sell?
My Bet With Metallox

DonFerrari on 12 April 2018
The_Liquid_Laser said:
DonFerrari said:

Still just because two variables in the same space have varied similarly doesn't mean they are correlated...

When you also have strong evidence that without that variable or in opposition you also had similar results you can't say they are correlated

What is this "strong evidence" you speak of?  Please be specific.  It's already clear that the majority of winners have BC, and the majority of losers don't have BC.  You must be referring to something else.  What is it?

Majority of something happening for two variables don't correlate them...

Or let's say if you found that majority of bald white man are fat, while majority of slim white man have hair would you say being fat and bald are correlated??? That is a very false scientific way that facebook posts use.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

StuOhQ on 12 April 2018

I agree. There's such an awesome library on PS1 and 2... Also PS3, I guess ;P

https://www.youtube.com/embed/by0y-Jo8yNA



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