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Forums - Sony Discussion - Sony Japan Studio working on Playstation All Stars 2? Fake?

AngryLittleAlchemist on 09 April 2018

twintail said: 

The sales talk was to show that these characters right now are being beamed to a similar number of players with their latest games. You cant discard that as meaningless. Just as many ppl with Switches are playing the latest Link adventure as their are ppl playing Drakes latest adventure (and even Aloys first). This visibility is of course important. You are right that Nintendo characters are, on the whole, more recognizable.

If there are Switch users with PS4 then yeah comparing the 2 becomes a possibility. But the reality is that a vast majority of PS4 owners dont have a Switch and so saying that a comparison needs to be made to Smash for character popularity and association is tenuous at best. The game needs to appeal to Sonys core fanbase and they have the characters to do that.

The issue is not so much the characters but the overall weakness of the project as a whole. Unknown developer. unfinished UI. a non-seamless artstyle. PSBR just looked like a game on a less budget and that hurt its visibility. Also not having characters that represented the userbase was a problem too. Is not that the characters dont exist for a game like this to work for Sony, its that the dev at the time didnt really understand what they needed/ couldnt get access to what they wanted.

I think capcom would give out multiple characters but that multiple IPs would be open to Sony to utilise. After all Superbot got Dante for the first game but they had very little negotiating power to get the original Dante that they wanted. They were an unknown studio so had less ground to stand on. They had similar problems with Lara Croft (CD wanting gamers to play as her in their reboot first) and even with Wander (Ueda refusing).

If PSBR had been developed by Naughty Dog as Sony originally wanted, you would have had a stronger studio negotiating for characters and just a better overall budget (which was clearly an issue with the game). If SCEJ are involved it would actually be easier to get JPN 3rd partys since SCEJ has a good working relationship with many external studios.

Of course this is just how I see it. I appreciate you dont see it that way but I disagree that 1) Sony doesnt have the characters or IP; they have exactly what they need to appeal to their fanbase, and 2) that 3rd party characters would be difficult to come by: Sony are in a better place now than with the PS3 (operative word being better), many marketing deals in place, and if they have a more recognised name attached to develop they can make a stronger appeal for alternate characters.

Well said. 

I guess to me the only real problem with the idea of Playstation All Stars 2 is A ) That they would have a hard time figuring out how the wide range of game characters could fit together (even Snake in Smash feels less weird than something like Kratos with Parappa the Rappa) and B ) That I think people are making huge stretches on what a "character" should be. To be honest, when I see stuff like "Demon's Souls Knight Guy" or "Hunter from Bloodborne" or "The Wanderer" I go .... "what?". It just seems to be kind of the antithesis of the point of those games (especially the Studio Japan stuff) ... 

But I think we REALLY should see Sony make an attempt, and I do think now is a good time. The question would be who would develop it? I mean, I don't think most of Sony's studios are open.



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Cloudman on 09 April 2018

Personally, if they were to make a sequel, I'd hope it be closer to Smash than the original. While the concept was interesting and new, I lost interest in it the more I played.



 

              

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MasterThief on 09 April 2018
gooch_destroyer said:

Can't we get a kart racer instead? 

you would think that would resonate way more with us. we don't have that many kart racers nowdays. actually we have 0 for this gen consoles that are big titles. 



NoCtiS_NoX on 10 April 2018
OTBWY said:
NoCtiS_NoX said:

There's no competition obviously because Mario, Zelda and especially Pokemon because it was cultivated and has other media alongside it.
But why does it need to compete with Smash though? I can argue that a lot Nintendo fans won't even bother looking into it because that is not Sony's market. It's the Playstation fans that will recognize Drake, Kratos, Knack, Hunter from Bloodborne, Cole, Toro, Kat, Aloy, Knignt From Demon Soul and the other Playstation owned characters. Then you have Spiderman that Marvel can lend because PS4 has an exclusive Spiderman game. Ryu or Hunter from MH or Dante again. Cloud, Geralt, Crash and Spyro. 

But this is still could be fake but I would want another PASBR but with more creative gameplay than the first one.

By the virtue of Sony making it like Smash in many aspects? I feel like Sony made the game just to have a Smash like game. That's not wrong, but it does set it up to be compared with Smash.

And as I said, I do not believe these two platforms have isolated fanbases. Many of them could own both, and buy both. Ergo, the games both compete for that space. 

Yes, Comparison will be there but my point is the characters. Why the need to compare it with Smash? Like I mentioned this game will be geared towards PS fan in general that will easily recognize the characters like N. Drake, Kratos, Knack, Hunter From BB, Aloy and ETC. 

As for your 2nd sentence yes it can be isolated. There is a lot of people that owns only one platform. If you are mostly likely a PS fan you will go for PS platforms than Ninty and that is what Sony is targeting if ever the game exist they will not try to steal someone who loves Smash for Mario and Link or even Pokemon. They will target that gamer that loves a brawler within their fans that also love the PS characters. 

Bottom line is so what if PASBR will not outsell Smash if the numbers are respectable and a success then they can cultivate the game to someday be successful as Smash. 



KLAMarine on 10 April 2018
NoCtiS_NoX said:

Yes, Comparison will be there but my point is the characters. Why the need to compare it with Smash? Like I mentioned this game will be geared towards PS fan in general that will easily recognize the characters like N. Drake, Kratos, Knack, Hunter From BB, Aloy and ETC.

Who's ETC? Is that Sony's MissingNo?



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fielding88 on 10 April 2018

I actually really enjoyed the first game. So much so that I got the platinum trophy both on the PS3 and again on the Vita. It was a nice diversion on commutes, I never had trouble getting into an online match (even well after a year) and it was no Smash but it was good.


My two biggest problems with the game were the name and the roster, though.

I spent a lot of time with each of the characters, and I really didn't care to use many of them. As far as fight mechanics went, some players were just terrible and others made things super easy. End of the day though, most of them just weren't memorable as fighters.

I'd definitely welcome a new game if this is true, and I'd probably buy it. But a new game needs to really diversify the fight mechanics and have a stronger roster. I agree that third-party characters would really help it out, but I hope there won't be exclusivity wars over characters like Ryu, Snake, or Mega Man.

Also, the game needs a name change. I hate the name more than I hate the title for "Sonic and Sega All-Stars Racing: Transformed"



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TruckOSaurus on 10 April 2018

If it's true, I really hope they just go with rings out like in Smash. Having to kill with specials made things so imbalanced.



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KLAMarine on 10 April 2018
Bristow9091 said:
KLAMarine said:

Who's ETC? Is that Sony's MissingNo?

Elite Tauren Chieftan, the WoW band?

Sure, why not? Will they give me infinite rare candies?



irstupid on 10 April 2018
OTBWY said:
twintail said:

 

I dont really get this sentiment tbqh. Not enough mainstream IP, sure. But the game doesn't need everyone to be mainstream characters to work. Sony has enough strong and semi-strong IPs to get appeal for the game (throwing in some 3rd party characters helps of course).

Ultimately what the game needs is a bigger budget, and a developer with more pedigree. 

 

I just disagree with this. I mean, we are ultimately comparing it to Smash if we like it or not. And in comparison, Sony just doesn't have to big recognizable iconic strength with its IP as let's say Pokemon, Mario or Zelda (Nintendo's big IP) and many smaller ones. They also have gotten good iconic third party characters in. Granted, Sony does have a wide range of 3rd party characters to choose from as well, but we didn't see that much last time, so I feel it won't happen this time. Do you see Megaman, Sonic, Pacman etc coming to this game?

Smash WIi U really screwed over any future PSASBR could have had. As many have stated, the first party of Nintendo characters versus Sony's is just not as recognizable, they would need to draw the big guns of 3rd parties. Yet Smash went and snagged all these huge names last game.

It would be impossible to not think of it as a clone if it had say Megaman, Sonic, Pacman, Cloud, Ryu ect.



OTBWY on 10 April 2018
twintail said:
OTBWY said:

I don't believe sales need be drawn into the conversation, as we should be talking about mainstream (at least among gamers across all platforms) icons being able to draw crowd in. Smash does that successfully by the fault of having so many great characters. The argument is just that while Sony does have N. Drake and other good recognizable characters, there's just less to choose from. Which in turn makes it less appealing. Now, having said that, I do not believe these two installbases are separate from each other. Switch owners could have Playstations too (like me) or vice versa. I believe they do compete for that same space in the party brawler genre.


I still think that even with whatever 3rd party characters they can muster, it is going to have less recognizable ones compared to Smash. Besides, I don't believe Capcom will give out multiple IP.
Meh, All Stars was released in 2012 at which Sony was already doing great on multiple fronts. Even if development began in 2009, they could have gotten way more through DLC. I just believe that the game wasn't very appealing to 3rd party devs at that time.

The sales talk was to show that these characters right now are being beamed to a similar number of players with their latest games. You cant discard that as meaningless. Just as many ppl with Switches are playing the latest Link adventure as their are ppl playing Drakes latest adventure (and even Aloys first). This visibility is of course important. You are right that Nintendo characters are, on the whole, more recognizable.

If there are Switch users with PS4 then yeah comparing the 2 becomes a possibility. But the reality is that a vast majority of PS4 owners dont have a Switch and so saying that a comparison needs to be made to Smash for character popularity and association is tenuous at best. The game needs to appeal to Sonys core fanbase and they have the characters to do that.

The issue is not so much the characters but the overall weakness of the project as a whole. Unknown developer. unfinished UI. a non-seamless artstyle. PSBR just looked like a game on a less budget and that hurt its visibility. Also not having characters that represented the userbase was a problem too. Is not that the characters dont exist for a game like this to work for Sony, its that the dev at the time didnt really understand what they needed/ couldnt get access to what they wanted.

I think capcom would give out multiple characters but that multiple IPs would be open to Sony to utilise. After all Superbot got Dante for the first game but they had very little negotiating power to get the original Dante that they wanted. They were an unknown studio so had less ground to stand on. They had similar problems with Lara Croft (CD wanting gamers to play as her in their reboot first) and even with Wander (Ueda refusing).

If PSBR had been developed by Naughty Dog as Sony originally wanted, you would have had a stronger studio negotiating for characters and just a better overall budget (which was clearly an issue with the game). If SCEJ are involved it would actually be easier to get JPN 3rd partys since SCEJ has a good working relationship with many external studios.

Of course this is just how I see it. I appreciate you dont see it that way but I disagree that 1) Sony doesnt have the characters or IP; they have exactly what they need to appeal to their fanbase, and 2) that 3rd party characters would be difficult to come by: Sony are in a better place now than with the PS3 (operative word being better), many marketing deals in place, and if they have a more recognised name attached to develop they can make a stronger appeal for alternate characters.

I think the topic of sales is meaningless as it doesn't have much to do with the core subject, which is icon status. Now, you Link and Nathan Drake are a good example of sales being comparable, but try comparing Metroid. It doesn't sell as much, yet it is very recognizable as a franchise. That way, I just think sales don't need to be drawn in. 

Does it really matter though, I mean, will the game appeal to PS4 owners from a gameplay point of view. I can't imagine the vast majority of PS4 owners going into the party brawler genre yet, but that is a different topic on how I view the installbase of the PS4. Either way, there is that certain crowd that does in fact own both platforms, and therefore it does compete with each other. 

I don't even think the original game was that bad at all. The single most glaring issue with it was not having a wide appealing selection of characters. I mean, that is the core of what i'm trying to say. I do however partly agree, I think the characters were underutilized and many were missing. It actually all falls under my opinion that they didn't go far enough making it Smash.

I do not believe Capcom will give out characters from 4 franchises. They already have good rep in Smash, so they might consider that first, before committing IP to another game. If they will, than that is great.

I think the question is what did Sony actually want to accomplish with it. The Smash comparison in this undeniable, but like I said, I feel like they halfassed what could have been a good part brawler. I am not someone that has anything against clones. Clones do not take away from the original. Look at the karting genre. It is hard however, because I have two things on my mind, will third party be eager to give out a character in the wake of a Smash game? Will they pick one over the other or both? And lastly, will they allow this new iteration to be different from the first, which means a revamped battle system etc. I hope that will be case, cause like I said, I don't mind another Smash like game, since I am a fan of the genre.

It is ok to disagree. I do however stick to my points. I find it telling that Sony has to rely on third party characters to draw in the crowd. I don't think Sony has bad IP, on the contrary, they have very good ones, but there is just less to choose from when you check off a list from both platforms. Even with Sony in a good place now, will third parties like Capcom commit fully? I don't know. I have my doubts. Anyway, good discussion.