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The American family is falling apart

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contestgamer said:
o_O.Q said:

you mean the hunter gatherer tribes that shame/shamed men who attempt to compete or demonstrate their individuality in anyway that might conflict with the interests of the group?

i always find it interesting when people bring those groups up because of how supposedly egalitarian they are without acknowledging that fact that they achieve that by beating the individuality out of their members

i suppose lowering everyone down to the lowest common denominator is ok for some once you can have "equality"

 

the people of tribes like that would probably have stoned steve jobs for being "different"

Yeah, but take a look at what they did to competing tribes...

they got wrecked by competing tribes... because they shame their men out of developing masculinity and dominance

furthermore the "competing tribes" now live in cities driving lamborghinis, picking up their meals from olive garden

while they still live in the bush hunting animals with spears



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VGPolyglot said:
o_O.Q said:

 

isn't it funny how you have shifted from attempting to address my argument at all to questioning whether i am sincere or not?

is this because you can't address the argument?

regardless it is up to you whether you want to continue obviously, but i stated already that i was offended by your implication that i am insincere originally, which is why i did not answer because i believe that you'd just continue repeating the idea that i'm lying

OK, if you won't answer him maybe you'll answer me. Do you believe there is a rape culture in the west?

i believe there are many examples of media normalising sexual aggression

examples that come to mind would be literature like 50 shades of grey and rap music

the latter ironically enough never seems to come under criticism by the groups who are supposedly trying to stop the rape culture(and is as popular as ever) and the former topped best seller lists(selling particularly well among women)

 

"You and your husband have a fight

One of you tries to grab a knife
And during the struggle he accidentally gets his Adams apple sliced
(No!)
And while this is goin' on
His son just woke up and he just walks in
She panics and he gets his throat cut
(Oh my God!)
So now they both dead and you slash your own throat
So now it's double homicide and suicide with no note
I should have known better when you started to act weird
We could've, hey! where you going? get back here!
You can't run from me Kim
It's just us, nobody else!
You're only making this harder on yourself
Ha! ha! got you!
(Ah!)
Ha! go ahead yell!
Here I'll scream with you!
Ah somebody help!
Don't you get it bitch, no one can hear you?
Now shut the fuck up and get what's comin' to you
You were supposed to love me
Now bleed! bitch bleed!
Bleed! bitch bleed! bleed!
So long, bitch you did me so wrong
I don't want to go on
Living in this world without you"

 

https://djbooth.net/features/2017-02-15-feminists-can-love-rap

https://thedebrief.co.uk/things-to-do/music/can-rap-fan-feminist/

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/booknews/9459779/50-Shades-of-Grey-is-best-selling-book-of-all-time.html

https://townhall.com/columnists/katherineblakeman/2017/11/13/why-is-fifty-shades-freed-glamorizing-sexual-violence-in-a-metoo-culture-n2408835

but regardless yes sexual aggression is clearly normalised in much of our media

Last edited by o_O.Q - on 09 April 2018

contestgamer said:
o_O.Q said:

"Physical harassment and rape you need to stomp out"

we haven't yet in our society so how would you suggest we do so?

We've done enough already. You will never eliminate it, trying to only leads to overreach like banning cat calling.

did you really just say that we will never stop rape from happening?



SuperRetroTurbo said:
This isn't exactly new but yes the numbers of single parents are increasing. I didn't read the numbers my apologies but honestly I wouldn't need to living in the city I reside in...the evidence is just there.

What happened?

No one can definitively say what caused such change but I would tend to argue that traditional family values have been compromised by media and ideology. The influence of both premises' can in my opinion have a great impact on society and way of life.

Is that the reason? More than likely but if it isn't then I would like to know because you're statement is an actuality that didn't just pop up out of nowhere...for no reason or without cause.

This is what worries me. Not the fact that we need Adam and Eve and Adam and Steve can't be just as good, given some effort... 



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    o_O.Q said:

    "incidents like robbery or stabbings have a realistic chance to occur during night time. On the other hand, marriages are made with no visible or known signs that rape is a realistic possibility"

    but is that true? is it not a widely held belief that we live in a rape culture?

    https://everydayfeminism.com/2014/03/examples-of-rape-culture/

    http://www.kcrg.com/content/news/People-March-Against-Rape-Culture-in-Iowa-City-479060463.html

     

    and that rape culture is perpetuated through men

    http://theconversation.com/what-rape-culture-says-about-masculinity-85513

    https://www.wnycstudios.org/story/seeing-sexual-harassment-and-violence-mens-issue/

    If I may disagree, when you marry a human being you marry a person that is by definition not perfect and can potentially carry flaws, serious ones in some cases, and rape is not even the worst, that spouse could be a murderer, a sadist etc...

    Though I'd agree with your assessment that it will not be obvious at least at first that a spouse can be a murderer or a sadist or to stay on the issue we discuss here, a rapist, getting to know that person well, actually very well would help towards determining what kind of person he/she is. The point remains that when you marry someone it's as the priest VERY CLEARLY says: you do for the better and for the WORSE, in health and in sickness etc. in OTHER WORDS you are WARNED and at that point you choose to go on with marriage thus you take your responsibilities. Again this is obviously not valid for forced marriages, I'm just saying, before someone jumps at my throat about this specific case. If you are forced into marriage, you have no choice and therefore no responsibility, no one can tell you to wise up and be more careful next time cause you were forced. So my opinion applies in freely consenting marriages.

    I should probably add that the only ones who have zero responsibility since they have zero choice in marriage are the children born out of that union. OBVIOUSLY!

    Last edited by CrazyGamer2017 - on 09 April 2018

    .

    I'm sleepy, time for a nappy!

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    Hiku said:
    CrazyGamer2017 said:

    It's kind of a strange notion to hear about rape inside marriage. I mean with the exception of forced marriages, if you don't want to have sex with a certain person then don't marry that person, obviously... But marrying a person then complaining cause that person wants to have sex with you is kind of a non sequitur, well sort of.

    "Wanting" to have sex can be VERY different from forcibly having sex with someone. Which can be very violent at times as well. Just because you're married to someone does not give them the right to abuse you.

    And I totally agree with you, they do not have that right, if anything I'm amazed that there was a time when laws did not consider rape within marriage.

    The point I was making in that post that you quote is very clear: If you don't want to have sex with someone or think you could not want to some time in the future, why marry that person? Marriage is supposed to be for life, if you don't feel like making a life commitment don't marry, just live with that person outside marriage and see how things go. I don't defend rape, I don't condone rapists, I'm ONLY saying it's weird to marry someone then having a problem with the very basic act that is totally specific to marriage: sex.

    JUST AS it seems weird someone might want to rape a spouse, why would you want to rape a person you can totally legally have sex with? I'm just pointing the lack of logic from the rapist's mind.

    Perhaps I'm too logical for my own good. I don't ever plan to rape anyone but if I had to rape someone, raping my wife is literally the last thing in the entire universe I'd ever think about doing.  So the only conclusion I can come to is that rapists that rape their spouse are fundamental morons. It's dumb enough to rape a stranger and go to jail for it but raping someone you can actually have sex with and in a normal marriage, she will agree most of the time, becoming an asshole and going to jail for something you can do most of the time anyway makes no sense to me.



    .

    I'm sleepy, time for a nappy!

    CrazyGamer2017 said: 

    The point I was making in that post that you quote is very clear: If you don't want to have sex with someone or think you could not want to some time in the future, why marry that person? Marriage is supposed to be for life, if you don't feel like making a life commitment don't marry, just live with that person outside marriage and see how things go. I don't defend rape, I don't condone rapists, I'm ONLY saying it's weird to marry someone then having a problem with the very basic act that is totally specific to marriage: sex.

    This is saying that if you marry someone that means that there should NEVER be a point in that marriage where you do not want to have sex with that person. I want you to know that this does not make sense and this type of mentality can and does lead to marital rape. There are any number of reasons a person might not want to have sex with their spouse/significant other: they're sick, they're tired, they're upset, or they just don't feel like it at that moment. Right this moment, I don't feel like having sex with my boyfriend because I'm stressed with work and I just want to deal with that right now. Does that mean I don't want to have sex with him later tonight? Of course not! It just means I don't want to have sex with him RIGHT NOW. If my boyfriend proceeds to have sex with me despite this and me saying no, that is rape.



    BradleyJ said:
    CrazyGamer2017 said: 

    The point I was making in that post that you quote is very clear: If you don't want to have sex with someone or think you could not want to some time in the future, why marry that person? Marriage is supposed to be for life, if you don't feel like making a life commitment don't marry, just live with that person outside marriage and see how things go. I don't defend rape, I don't condone rapists, I'm ONLY saying it's weird to marry someone then having a problem with the very basic act that is totally specific to marriage: sex.

    This is saying that if you marry someone that means that there should NEVER be a point in that marriage where you do not want to have sex with that person. I want you to know that this does not make sense and this type of mentality can and does lead to marital rape. There are any number of reasons a person might not want to have sex with their spouse/significant other: they're sick, they're tired, they're upset, or they just don't feel like it at that moment. Right this moment, I don't feel like having sex with my boyfriend because I'm stressed with work and I just want to deal with that right now. Does that mean I don't want to have sex with him later tonight? Of course not! It just means I don't want to have sex with him RIGHT NOW. If my boyfriend proceeds to have sex with me despite this and me saying no, that is rape.

    And I agree with you, I made that clear there and in plenty other posts here. If you don't want to have sex with your boyfriend and he forces himself that is the very definition of rape. We AGREE.

    However I don't agree when you say that my logic or what you call my "mentality" can and WILL lead to marital rape.

    I say: If I don't want to have sex with someone or suspect there is a chance he/she could force himself at some point in the future, I am NOT marrying that person. So NOT marrying is what my "mentality" leads to. Now tell me how a spouse can rape me if through my mentality I choose to not marry him/her? If he rapes me it's not a marital rape since we are not married THANKS to my "mentality" having made me choose not marry him/her.



    .

    I'm sleepy, time for a nappy!

    CrazyGamer2017 said:
    o_O.Q said:

    "incidents like robbery or stabbings have a realistic chance to occur during night time. On the other hand, marriages are made with no visible or known signs that rape is a realistic possibility"

    but is that true? is it not a widely held belief that we live in a rape culture?

    https://everydayfeminism.com/2014/03/examples-of-rape-culture/

    http://www.kcrg.com/content/news/People-March-Against-Rape-Culture-in-Iowa-City-479060463.html

     

    and that rape culture is perpetuated through men

    http://theconversation.com/what-rape-culture-says-about-masculinity-85513

    https://www.wnycstudios.org/story/seeing-sexual-harassment-and-violence-mens-issue/

    If I may disagree, when you marry a human being you marry a person that is by definition not perfect and can potentially carry flaws, serious ones in some cases, and rape is not even the worst, that spouse could be a murderer, a sadist etc...

    Though I'd agree with your assessment that it will not be obvious at least at first that a spouse can be a murderer or a sadist or to stay on the issue we discuss here, a rapist, getting to know that person well, actually very well would help towards determining what kind of person he/she is. The point remains that when you marry someone it's as the priest VERY CLEARLY says: you do for the better and for the WORSE, in health and in sickness etc. in OTHER WORDS you are WARNED and at that point you choose to go on with marriage thus you take your responsibilities. Again this is obviously not valid for forced marriages, I'm just saying, before someone jumps at my throat about this specific case. If you are forced into marriage, you have no choice and therefore no responsibility, no one can tell you to wise up and be more careful next time cause you were forced. So my opinion applies in freely consenting marriages.

    I should probably add that the only ones who have zero responsibility since they have zero choice in marriage are the children born out of that union. OBVIOUSLY!

    No.

    You are not signing a contract which accepts your spouse raping you when you get married.

    That is incredibly fucked up.

    Under no stretch of the imagination, does marrying someone mean that you have been warned that you might get raped, or that you should accept or live with such "flaws" in your significant other.

    There is no reasonable interpretation of marriage under which the threat of rape or abuse is implied.

    To make the statement that you have been warned about your spouse being a rapist when you say your vows, is to tell women who have been victims of abuse that they have signed up for this and they will be the one in the wrong should they try to flee from this abusive situation.

    Further, I agree with BradleyJ. The mindset of "she married me so she should be willing to fuck whenever I am" can and does lead to marital rape, but you have also been pushing a mindset which makes it more difficult for people to leave abusive relationships, makes it more difficult for individuals to get past their abuse and makes them feel like they are the ones to blame for the abuse.



    AsGryffynn said:
    SuperRetroTurbo said:
    This isn't exactly new but yes the numbers of single parents are increasing. I didn't read the numbers my apologies but honestly I wouldn't need to living in the city I reside in...the evidence is just there.

    What happened?

    No one can definitively say what caused such change but I would tend to argue that traditional family values have been compromised by media and ideology. The influence of both premises' can in my opinion have a great impact on society and way of life.

    Is that the reason? More than likely but if it isn't then I would like to know because you're statement is an actuality that didn't just pop up out of nowhere...for no reason or without cause.

    This is what worries me. Not the fact that we need Adam and Eve and Adam and Steve can't be just as good, given some effort... 

    If people see me as traditional then so be it. I don't recognize with any party or consider myself conservative...although I may appear that way. With that said...speaking subjectively...I'm not in favor of any form of parenting that defects from mother and father relationship. I wouldn't even be as supportive if say the mother had to raise the child without the father due to tragic events (ie father lost in war) or vice versa...and the child is left with any other type of legal parent. However, I'm not exactly against it. 

     

    Because I don't know what benefits or set backs can arise from those situations. I grew up in a house with a step father who was of latin decent. Me being caucasian..it was difficult at times. Culturally speaking and how it was viewed in society. 

     

    My step father was also abusive to both me and my mother. That didn't help. But I'm sure there are plenty of same sex marriages that have raised children just as well... if not better than...some opposite sex parents... given all factors in consideration. 



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