https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/facts-about-deterrence-and-death-penalty

https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/study-88-criminologists-do-not-believe-death-penalty-effective-deterrent

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/04/30/theres-still-no-evidence-that-executions-deter-criminals/?utm_term=.9ab78eb7e9df

I dont believe the death penalty works because it is rare, too humane and takes decades of procedure. If you gave 100% of criminals the death penalty and you did it publicly within 30 days of crime I believe it WOULD become an effective deterrent. I know all those disgusting anti drug commercials in the 80s'/90s made me sick enough to have never even tried any drugs because of a visceral repulsion. If someone witnessed a gruesome public execution or punishment for a common crime they would get the same revulsion at the thought of committing said crime. Not everyone, but more than do now.

Do you honestly believe that publicly chopping off the arms of shoplifters would not lead to ANY reduction of said crime?

That sounds like a way to have a lot of innocent people wrongfully convicted and punished.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder

I don't think it has to be premeditated as in planned well beforehand, but if you intend to kill someone and then do so it's murder, however long the time is from initial intent to the deed.

I think it might be either: a) the papers sensationalising things for effect. The police have to question him to find out what happened, and because he is held by the police the best story to sell is "man arrested on murder charge for defending himself"
or b) if someone is killed it is automatically "arrested on murder charge" until it can be proved otherwise, they don't leave them free to skip the country while they try to determine what happened.

Not really, most shoplifting has video evidence plus the physical evidence of stolen product. Some are wrongfully convicted now as well, but you still need a justice system. 

Again, I ask: Do you honestly believe that publicly chopping off the arms of shoplifters would not lead to ANY reduction of said crime? 

The problem is appeals, you could simply punish the majority of crimes which are cut and dry in a 30 day window. It would be enough to strike fear in the public.

Not really, most shoplifting has video evidence plus the physical evidence of stolen product. Some are wrongfully convicted now as well, but you still need a justice system. 

Again, I ask: Do you honestly believe that publicly chopping off the arms of shoplifters would not lead to ANY reduction of said crime? 

The problem is appeals, you could simply punish the majority of crimes which are cut and dry in a 30 day window. It would be enough to strike fear in the public.

I know, that's what I was trying to say with the '48 stabwounds' thing. Basically if you stab someone to stop them from hurting you, that's not neccessarily with intent to kill. Unless there was eregeous force used it would be hard to prove intent to kill in that situation as well. Seeing that the injured burglar in this case apparently got as far as out on the street before he collapsed, the elderly man was probably not too intent on actually killing him. That's how it read to me at least.

But yeah, everything you said about the arrest makes sense. Thanks!

Edit: Also, jeez this thread escalated quickly. Accoring to Contestgamer, instead of being a productive taxpaying member of society I should be an invalid, cared for by my family right now, that is if I survived the public and improptu dismemberment of my arms at age three and five respectively.

Yes, I've shoplifted before. The one at age three was an honest mistake, since I thought my mom had payed for the 3$ heart shaped plastic sunglasses in kid size that I had put on and not taken off when we walked out of the store. The one at age five was the concious theft of a 1$ bubblegum that made me feel so bad that I never did anything of the like again. And that includes succumbing to peer pressure, for the most part.

The people at the tax office were very happy when I came to register my business btw. They like people who actively try to pay taxes.

So your argument is it doesn't matter if we get it wrong mutilate an innocent person and we already get it wrong sometimes now? That is not a good or reassuring arguement at all.

You may find it marginally decreases overall shoplifting incidents, but would probably increase incidents where excessive force is used. If more organised thieves know the consequence of getting caught is mutilation, they'd be more likely to murder witnesses and destroy video evidence (i.e. Arson) to cover their tracks. Maybe not a great trade off.

Also, I don't like the idea of governments sanctioning mutilation of its own citizens, criminals or not.

 Mistakes will always happen but with cloud storage cameras etc its less likely criminals will be able to sabotage in the future. If a case is cut and dry and we have forensic or video evidence of crime then we should go to the max punishment possible in public sphere and do it quickly. I believe it would be a deterrent. And again if I'm proven wrong then we change the system but the current one is not effective so I believe we should at least test alternatives like the Philippines are doing and get data.