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Forums - Politics Discussion - Delta and United join list of companies to cut ties with the NRA - maybe this truly is the end of gun rights in the US?

the-pi-guy said:
o_O.Q said:

"Only if the armed oppressor is bigger, or less ethical. "

i think that being an oppressor and being ethical at the same time is kind of an oxymoron don't you think?

In general yes, that's an oxymoron.   

"I didn't realize you were unable to understand the facts beyond the examples that I gave you.  "

i was pointing out that it was fallacious to use the world wars as representations of how things have been throughout human history

I was pointing out that statistically, even the world wars were safer than most of human history.  Those are the facts.

"This is why there is a necessity to have an educated populace."

education does not taken away the limitations that cause people to be selfish, or envious or greedy etc etc etc

in fact it amplifies those traits in many instances

therefore, the idea that we can simply teach people out of wanting to be malevolent is a waste of time

Most people aren't needlessly malevolent.  The vast majority of people tend to be decent.  

The point is that people who are educated can vote for what is actually best for them.

"Most people aren't needlessly malevolent.  The vast majority of people tend to be decent.  "

everyone is malevolent and decent at the same time to varying degrees

no one is decent 100% of the time

you mean to tell me that you've never done an evil act knowing at the time that it as wrong?

you'd be the first human being that has accomplished that i'm sure



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Slownenberg said:

 

This last paragraph from the OP is a bit insane. This is the kind of thinking that makes gun nuts go crazy and dive into paranoia and conspiracy theories. This thinking is how the NRA and the republican party are able to tell people crazy things like the government is coming for their guns, or as soon as the democrats are in charge they're gonna get rid of the second amendment. Makes paranoid gun people even crazier. So please just stop with your crazy talk. Guns are not the reason we have freedom in America. That's insane. Our laws and our institutions are the reason we have freedom.

The less power the NRA has the better. They have no interest in the well being of America or in American lives. They only care about their own power which is solidified by the proliferation of guns throughout society. Hence why the only solution they or republicans (who follow them blindly) ever have to gun violence is more guns! That's like the sugar industry saying to fight the obesity epidemic by feeding people even more sugar, or solving a cities traffic problems by putting even more cars on the road. Just plain stupid and dangerous.

The NRA has been around since the 1870s, and gun massacres are only really a recent phenomenon.

The VAST majority of gun crime in the USA is gang vs. gang. For example: Chicago. Chicago tries to blame NRA owners in Indiana for the gun crime but that's bullcrap.



RolStoppable said:

Your examples in this post aren't reasonable. Then again, the picture of tanks you posted in the preceding post didn't make sense either. "People need to own guns to protect themselves against government tyranny." - Do you really believe your little guns can stop a batallion of tanks that is accompanied by trained soldiers? Sure, you can fire bullets at the tanks, but real life isn't like a video game where a certain amount of bullets make a tank explode.

Yeah you're right. This obviously explains why dictatorships are well known for letting their subjects own guns.

The first thing Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Xi, ZeDong, etc. etc. allowed the people to do was own guns because what can their guns do against tanks right?

If you give up one right, you give them all up. The reason you have free speech is because America has the right to own guns.



the-pi-guy said:

o_O.Q said:

.

Here's some questions for you:

-How do countries like Japan, UK (countries with very low rates of gun ownership) maintain their freedoms?  

-How do guns equal the playing field against weapons like bombs and unmanned drones?

" do countries like Japan, UK (countries with very low rates of gun ownership) maintain their freedoms?  "

the citizens of those countries being free at one point in time does not show that they'll remain free in the future

the other thing is that i'm not so sure that they are that free anyway

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4167632/Don-t-call-pregnant-patients-mothers.html

i read this article about how doctors are now being banned from doing something as innocuous as calling a woman a mother, for example

 

"How do guns equal the playing field against weapons like bombs and unmanned drones?"

i've already answered this question twice 

i've said that simply because you would passively accept a tyranny does not mean that others would or should

plenty of people died going up against impossible odds to guarantee that you have the freedom to type that question today

those were the times when men were real men



CosmicSex said:
McDonaldsGuy said:

China just made Xi it's Emperor.

Is that what you want the future of the world to be like? Under one Emperor?

During the Cold War it was the USA vs. Soviet Union. We could've let the Soviets take over Western Europe but we didn't. You should thank us every day for your freedom.

What are we going to do about China with OUR GUNS?

What is China going to do about it?

If China one day decides to try and rule the world, who is going to stop them? I can guarantee you it won't be Australia or the UK.



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Bofferbrauer2 said:
Nem said:

Ryan... honestly... we have no gun rights in europe. Do you think we have no freedom? (aquisition is highly regulated)

Why do some americans think this way? That is utterly ridiculous. Are you planning a revolution and that's why you want guns? Why are you defending Anarchy?

It's so backwards that i don't even know what to say. How can people not see that? Civilians don't need guns. You are living in a developed country. You are safe. All the easy to get guns do is make it easy for people to kill each other everytime they get angry at something. It's not civilised. It's not the wild west anymore.

Do you really need to sacrifice a bunch of children to the slaughter every year just to keep your illusion that with your gun you can go take down the government? This is utter lunacy!

Where's the like button when you really need one? Obrigado for pointing this out.

o_O.Q said:

"Guns don’t make you free, nor do they protect your freedom"

the war for independence?

the civil war?

Where both fought by professional soldiers, not civilians.

During the independence war, the militias actually almost made the whole thing fail, because they refused to fight in a different state than the one they where living in, and the states where relying on them at first as unlike the Army raised by the Congress, they didn't need any pay and thus didn't pester them all the time to raise money for the army (at the time, Congress had to kindly ask for money from the states, which where none too happy sending anything to Congress as it meant less money for them). Only once General Washington pointed out that the army was on the breaking point and would start looting because they didn't get any pay in over half a year did they finally agreed to pay for the army, probably also because the militias where so ineffective when they actually fought that the army was badly needed to save the states.

Oh, and the militias got armed by their respective states, because having guns at the time was extremely expensive (think about a couple 100k in today's dollars) and only few of them had any before the war. Hence where the 2nd right actually comes from - not having to give them back to the states.

o_O.Q said:

"Civilians don't need guns. You are living in a developed country. You are safe."

except for all those times in history when people needed guns to fight oppression

its infantile to assume that such a situation will never occur again

"Do you really need to sacrifice a bunch of children to the slaughter every year"

killing and death are a fact of reality and that will be the case whether guns are completely eradicated from society or not

"just to keep your illusion that with your gun you can go take down the government?"

this is how america as an independent country was formed to begin with... wtf are you talking about?

Look above for what you got wrong there.

Besides, you can hardly compare 250 years ago with how it would play out nowadays. Have fun with your peashooters against tanks, IFVs, MRLs, helicopters, drones and jets. The government would actually have to try very very hard to loose any civil war

do you have a source to verify that civilians did not fight in neither the independence war nor the civil war?



Bofferbrauer2 said:

 

o_O.Q said:

"Civilians don't need guns. You are living in a developed country. You are safe."

except for all those times in history when people needed guns to fight oppression

its infantile to assume that such a situation will never occur again

"Do you really need to sacrifice a bunch of children to the slaughter every year"

killing and death are a fact of reality and that will be the case whether guns are completely eradicated from society or not

"just to keep your illusion that with your gun you can go take down the government?"

this is how america as an independent country was formed to begin with... wtf are you talking about?

Look above for what you got wrong there.

Besides, you can hardly compare 250 years ago with how it would play out nowadays. Have fun with your peashooters against tanks, IFVs, MRLs, helicopters, drones and jets. The government would actually have to try very very hard to loose any civil war

You assume that the entire military would side with the government. The point of a civil war would be that it would be split. Both sides would have tanks, FIVs, MRL, helicopters, drones, and jets.

And if we were going to talk Civil War over something like say Gun Laws. Who do you think the military members would side with? 90% of the people I know in the military or where in the military are people that grew up with guns in their family, grew up hunting, continue to own guns. Do you think those same military people are going to point their guns at their family and friends?



EricHiggin said:
I would have to assume most of these companies don't cater to many NRA members, otherwise they are going to get push back like the NFL did.
I also find it ironic that banks were promoting guns in a way. It would be like airlines promoting global warming/hurricanes.

They were trying to attract "good guys with guns" to fight off the "bad guys with guns".  But they realized that the NRA is actually a bad guy. 



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What does it matter that they cut ties? Why even bother? Somewhere and some point, politicians and media skewed public perception into thinking that the NRA is somehow responsible for circulation, production, and laws surrounding rifles - which they're not... I don't even know why the NRA responds to anti gun hecklers... The NRA was founded before the M16/M4 was made. (which the AR 15 is derived from)

The NRA is a club of gun owners, that's it...

Imagine there was an epidemic of exploding basketballs and dozens of people died and dozens more wounded. Would you blame the NBA for the incident? Of course not, you'd blame Spalding/Wilson since they're the ones who MANUFACTURED them...

Americans need to get a clue....



"
I think the government wants us to lose our gun rights. That way as soon as they can they will have total control of us. Only reason we have any freedom in America is due to guns."

Is this the script for a radio advert on the next gta?

Guns don't give you more freedom. Your government will do what it wants with or without the people having guns.