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Forums - Politics Discussion - Delaware students can now choose their own race (Yes, RACE!) under new regulations.

newwil7l said:
o_O.Q said:

 

"'Race', just like any form of subdivision of living creatures, is a human construction"

the labels we assign to things are influenced by inherent differences such as the obvious differences that allow birds to fly

you can't really be trying to say that the differences that allow birds to fly are a human construction right?

Birds are an entirely different species. Not sure where this poor comparison came from. 

 

Pure races do not even exist. Things are completely mixed these days and the genetic differences between races are just about non existent. It is essentially a human construct in its modern form. Not a biological one.

"Birds are an entirely different species. "

and we base that on the physical expression of genetic differences between us and birds and the same thing applies to race

 

can you guess the physical differences we use to distinguish black people and white people?

 

"It is essentially a human construct in its modern form. "

if i took someone outside and asked them to distinguish between black and white people... they'd be able to do so right? why?



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o_O.Q said:
newwil7l said:

Birds are an entirely different species. Not sure where this poor comparison came from. 

 

Pure races do not even exist. Things are completely mixed these days and the genetic differences between races are just about non existent. It is essentially a human construct in its modern form. Not a biological one.

"Birds are an entirely different species. "

and we base that on the physical expression of genetic differences between us and birds and the same thing applies to race

 

can you guess the physical differences we use to distinguish black people and white people?

 

"It is essentially a human construct in its modern form. "

if i took someone outside and asked them to distinguish between black and white people... they'd be able to do so right? why?

Except the genetic differences between birds and even differences between species of birds is far more different that the genetic differences between two races. Races are mixed these days and there is little genetic variance among them. Everyone is mixed. It is like asking why one mutt dog is brown and another is black.



o_O.Q said:
Flilix said:

'Race', just like any form of subdivision of living creatures, is a human construction. There's a scientific consensus that all humans that aren't extinct belong to the same species and the same race.

 

"'Race', just like any form of subdivision of living creatures, is a human construction"

the labels we assign to things are influenced by inherent differences such as the obvious differences that allow birds to fly

you can't really be trying to say that the differences that allow birds to fly are a human construction right?

Bats can fly.

'Flying' is not the charasteristic that defines birds, so your example doesn't even make sense. The dinstiction between animal classes is made by multiple charasteristics. These are selected in the most logical way possible, but they're still artificial. For instance: 'not being able to fly' is not a charasterictic of mammals, since bats can fly. But if bats didn't exist, scientists would consider 'not being able to fly' to be a charasteristic of the mammal class, since there wouldn't be any flying mammals. However, all the other mammals would still be the same.

Living creatures aren't inherently divided into strict groups. Scientists made these groups up, and adapted the definitions to their 'sources' ( = all creatures in existence).



newwil7l said:
o_O.Q said:

"Birds are an entirely different species. "

and we base that on the physical expression of genetic differences between us and birds and the same thing applies to race

 

can you guess the physical differences we use to distinguish black people and white people?

 

"It is essentially a human construct in its modern form. "

if i took someone outside and asked them to distinguish between black and white people... they'd be able to do so right? why?

Except the genetic differences between birds and even differences between species of birds is far more different that the genetic differences between two races. Races are mixed these days and there is little genetic variance among them. Everyone is mixed. It is like asking why one mutt dog is brown and another is black.

"Except the genetic differences between birds and even differences between species of birds is far more different that the genetic differences between two races."

which does not impact upon my point, which was that there are differences, which become obvious based on the fact that black people and white people can be clearly distinguished


other than being incredibly delusional to deny obvious reality right before you... the thing is that you do people a disservice because there are, for example, medical problems that are more severe in one group over the other such as sensitivity to sun light and susceptibility to high blood pressure, which are important to note

 

what about sex? do you believe sex is a social construct as well?



Flilix said:
o_O.Q said:

 

"'Race', just like any form of subdivision of living creatures, is a human construction"

the labels we assign to things are influenced by inherent differences such as the obvious differences that allow birds to fly

you can't really be trying to say that the differences that allow birds to fly are a human construction right?

Bats can fly.

'Flying' is not the charasteristic that defines birds, so your example doesn't even make sense. The dinstiction between animal classes is made by multiple charasteristics. These are selected in the most logical way possible, but they're still artificial. For instance: 'not being able to fly' is not a charasterictic of mammals, since bats can fly. But if bats didn't exist, scientists would consider 'not being able to fly' to be a charasteristic of the mammal class, since there wouldn't be any flying mammals. However, all the other mammals would still be the same.

Living creatures aren't inherently divided into strict groups. Scientists made these groups up, and adapted the definitions to their 'sources' ( = all creatures in existence).

"'Flying' is not the charasteristic that defines birds"

really? so lets say i gather 100 people and ask them to name a flying animal... what do you suppose the answer would be for 99% of them

now flying is not the main characteristic of birds sure, there are others such as being covered in feathers as opposed to fur, for example

 

"The dinstiction between animal classes is made by multiple charasteristics. These are selected in the most logical way possible, but they're still artificial."

so humans caused birds to grow wings? and fish to grow scales? are you fucking trolling?

 

" 'not being able to fly' is not a charasterictic of mammals"

yes but giving birth to live young is...

 

" However, all the other mammals would still be the same."

yeah... does this make a lion a cannibal when it eats a gazelle?

 

"Living creatures aren't inherently divided into strict groups."

so why don't tuna, elephants, lions and flamingos all swim in schools? 

 

"Scientists made these groups up"

scientists categorise and label phenomenon THAT ALREADY EXIST when it comes to biology

 




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o_O.Q said:

"Except the genetic differences between birds and even differences between species of birds is far more different that the genetic differences between two races."

which does not impact upon my point, which was that there are differences, which become obvious based on the fact that black people and white people can be clearly distinguished


other than being incredibly delusional to deny obvious reality right before you... the thing is that you do people a disservice because there are, for example, medical problems that are more severe in one group over the other such as sensitivity to sun light and susceptibility to high blood pressure, which are important to note

 

what about sex? do you believe sex is a social construct as well?

Let me ask you this: Why do you think race matters?

True, we can sometimes distinguish between races by physical characteristics (however, other times we can't), but we could also separate people by height or by hair color. Overall, the importance of race is a social construct, not something genetic or inherent.

While you can argue that race has a genetic component, however small, that doesn't explain its role as a point of division.



sundin13 said:
o_O.Q said:

"Except the genetic differences between birds and even differences between species of birds is far more different that the genetic differences between two races."

which does not impact upon my point, which was that there are differences, which become obvious based on the fact that black people and white people can be clearly distinguished


other than being incredibly delusional to deny obvious reality right before you... the thing is that you do people a disservice because there are, for example, medical problems that are more severe in one group over the other such as sensitivity to sun light and susceptibility to high blood pressure, which are important to note

 

what about sex? do you believe sex is a social construct as well?

Let me ask you this: Why do you think race matters?

True, we can sometimes distinguish between races by physical characteristics (however, other times we can't), but we could also separate people by height or by hair color. Overall, the importance of race is a social construct, not something genetic or inherent.

While you can argue that race has a genetic component, however small, that doesn't explain its role as a point of division.

"the thing is that you do people a disservice because there are, for example, medical problems that are more severe in one group over the other such as sensitivity to sun light and susceptibility to high blood pressure, which are important to note"

 

"Overall, the importance of race is a social construct, not something genetic or inherent."

do you feel the same about sex?



o_O.Q said:
sundin13 said:

Let me ask you this: Why do you think race matters?

True, we can sometimes distinguish between races by physical characteristics (however, other times we can't), but we could also separate people by height or by hair color. Overall, the importance of race is a social construct, not something genetic or inherent.

While you can argue that race has a genetic component, however small, that doesn't explain its role as a point of division.

"the thing is that you do people a disservice because there are, for example, medical problems that are more severe in one group over the other such as sensitivity to sun light and susceptibility to high blood pressure, which are important to note"

 

"Overall, the importance of race is a social construct, not something genetic or inherent."

do you feel the same about sex?

Do you do people a disservice by not dividing by race? When I go to a doctor about, say, high blood pressure, he doesn't ask me where in the world my family originated from, he asks me if anyone in my family suffers from high blood pressure. The reason for this is because within-group variation is often much larger and more prominent than between-group variation. While broad patterns may exist, they often largely overlap between-groups and they say little about the situation of any one individual within that group.

Further, since when have we divided humans based on susceptibility to high blood pressure? I am white and I have no history of high blood pressure in my family. I have a white friend who does have a history of high blood pressure. I have a black friend who does not have a history of high blood pressure. If we are dividing based on medical characteristics, it would make far more sense to put me and hypothetical black friend in the same groups and hypothetical white friend in a separate group. Why would we use such broad brush divisions which serve poorly as a predictor?

And why are we dividing humans by susceptibility to disease? When I filled out forms on my SAT, I wasn't asked if my father suffered from male pattern baldness. Susceptibility to disease is more or less irrelevant to a school. That is something that should be discussed with a doctor (and again, if the first thing your doctor asks you when you go in talking about lumps in your breasts is whether or not you are white, you should probably find a new doctor). 

As far as sex, it is a significantly more prominent genetic factor than race, however, to some extent, the divisions we have created are social. That is what gender is. Gender speaks to the social constructs surrounding biological sex, and on that point, the importance of these divisions is a social construct. While genetic differences in sex are obviously real, they are also more complicated than a simple binary, and transgendered individuals are often a manifestation of one or both of these points. I'm not really sure what kind of answer you are looking for on this question, so I could elaborate if you ask me something in more detail.



o_O.Q said:
Flilix said:

Bats can fly.

'Flying' is not the charasteristic that defines birds, so your example doesn't even make sense. The dinstiction between animal classes is made by multiple charasteristics. These are selected in the most logical way possible, but they're still artificial. For instance: 'not being able to fly' is not a charasterictic of mammals, since bats can fly. But if bats didn't exist, scientists would consider 'not being able to fly' to be a charasteristic of the mammal class, since there wouldn't be any flying mammals. However, all the other mammals would still be the same.

Living creatures aren't inherently divided into strict groups. Scientists made these groups up, and adapted the definitions to their 'sources' ( = all creatures in existence).

"'Flying' is not the charasteristic that defines birds"

really? so lets say i gather 100 people and ask them to name a flying animal... what do you suppose the answer would be for 99% of them

now flying is not the main characteristic of birds sure, there are others such as being covered in feathers as opposed to fur, for example

Yes, really. As long as there's at least one flying creature that isn't a bird, and as long as there's at least one bird that can't fly; flying is not a charasteristic of birds.
By the way, the vast majority of flying species aren't even birds.

 

"The dinstiction between animal classes is made by multiple charasteristics. These are selected in the most logical way possible, but they're still artificial."

so humans caused birds to grow wings? and fish to grow scales? are you fucking trolling?

I don't know how you could possibly have concluded that out of what I wrote.


" 'not being able to fly' is not a charasterictic of mammals"

yes but giving birth to live young is...

Platypus don't give birth to living youngs, yet they're mammals. Do you start to notice how complex and random these divisions are sometimes?

 

" However, all the other mammals would still be the same."

yeah... does this make a lion a cannibal when it eats a gazelle?

The idea of 'cannibalism' is just as artificial as 'species'. The definition of cannibalism is: 'the practice of eating the flesh of one's own species'. Lions and gazelles are not considered to be the same species. Therefore, it's not cannibalism.

 

"Living creatures aren't inherently divided into strict groups."

so why don't tuna, elephants, lions and flamingos all swim in schools?

Because 'swimming in schools' is not an inherently good reason to consider a certain creature to be a different species. I have blue eyes, other people have brown eyes, why aren't we considered to be different species?

Mind you, I already said that scientists always attempt to make divisions as logical as possible. Of cource the ability to swim is a more logical reason for a division that the eyecolour. However, there's no way to strictly determine which reason is better than others.

 

"Scientists made these groups up"

scientists categorise and label phenomenon THAT ALREADY EXIST when it comes to biology

Nope.




sundin13 said:
Locknuts said:

I do like though how evolution is great because it goes against the traditional Christian narrative, but it somehow stopped 50,000 years ago. Oh and effects everything but the human brain.

What exactly is this post supposed to mean?

It means variations in the human genome have changed our appearances and behaviour via natural selection depending on our environments over the last 50,000 years.