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Forums - General Discussion - Feminists outrage at walk on/Grid girls, F1 & Darts models ban. Your thoughts?

 

I am...

In support of Grid girls. 72 79.12%
 
I support banning grid gi... 6 6.59%
 
Indifferent or unsure. 12 13.19%
 
Comments... 1 1.10%
 
Total:91
Mummelmann said:
Teeqoz said:

But this isn't a ban from some higher authority. This is the tournament organizers themselves stopping the practice. It's not a law that has been lobbied through by feminists or whatever.

And I believe I never stated it was; the principal is what matters. Certain movements seek to prohibit choice, this isn't that far remover from abortion ethics and similar veins, it's still an organization, group, movement or other form of governing or ruling/influential body that seeks to remove choices and in same cases even shame those who oppose them.

Like I said; I never understood the point of scantily clad girls at sporting events, and I've never been to a strip joint, for instance. But the choice should at the very least exist, how someone chooses to show or don't show their body is entirely their business, man or woman, so long as it's not exposure (which the law already had covered). Whether a governing body, ruling seat or an organization influenced by some sort of lobbyist group of simply social pressure from movements bring about a ban is beside the point.

The choice does still exist. Formula E still has grid girls, and hey, if people are outraged about this decision, they are free to try and start their own formula racing tournament.

If a strip club were to rebrand itself to a restaurant, would you say they were removing the choice of the strippers to work as strippers? I mean maybe, but you can't force a company/corporation/organisation to keep a position. Others are free to compete with alternative offerings if they want...

Grid girls that really want to continue working as grid girls can seek out other formula racing venues and work there. They do have a choice. As far as I know, this isn't the FIA (the actual ruling organisation), this is just F1.



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Intrinsic said:
Otter said:

No one is saying objectification is the devils work and needs to be wiped from society, but many people feel that sexually motivated positions and roles should not placed in sport which ultimately have nothing to do with sex and a wide demographic audience including families. Just because someone thinks naked woman shouldn't be on page 3 of the UK's biggest newspaper, it doesn't mean they think porn should be illegal.

The fact that we're even comparing a strip club to an F1 event should make the point very clear.

Actually it doesn't make it any clearer to me.

If these women are doing this against their will, or are not getting paid. Or if the argument is that they should be paid more... I will understand all that. Hell, if the argument is that their should be more women drivers i could get that too.

What i see here is a bunch of women taking the livelihood of other women simply because they feel they have the moral high ground. The only difference this is going to make in the world right now is that thousands of women or even the agencies that represent them are now out of a job.

Yay?

How about this, show us one single video or one article of these models saying they hate working there and how they feel objectified. Not a sex scandal... those happen everywhere. I am talking about an actual petition by one of these women that warrants this kinda initiative. Just one.

I'll try again. Its not about the models, its about how F1 wants to present itself and women. I'm sure plenty of woman will happily get paid to present the weather forecast in a Bikini, but this wouldn't send out a very positive message, again it will reinforce that woman exist primarily to be objectified. So why would a news channel want to do that? What does scantly clad woman have to do with F1?



o_O.Q said:
Otter said:

No one is saying objectification is the devils work and needs to be wiped from society, but many people feel that sexually motivated positions and roles should not placed in sport which ultimately have nothing to do with sex and a wide demographic audience including families. Just because someone thinks naked woman shouldn't be on page 3 of the UK's biggest newspaper, it doesn't mean they think porn should be illegal.

The fact that we're even comparing a strip club to an F1 event should make the point very clear.

this doesn't make sense, how can you be against the objectification of women and not be against the production of porn? and even beyond that to a lesser degree modelling?

The only reason why it wouldn't make sense to you is because you are speaking in black and white terms.

"No one is saying objectification is the devils work and needs to be wiped from society"

There is a time, place and appropriateness for everything. Sex is a great thing, its how our society survives. That doesn't mean that we need to show it on Saturday morning cartoons. 



At the end of the day those women are out of a job and F1/Darts fans who liked the soul, culture and entertainment build around the sport, see those very sports lose personality yet again.

The F1 was way better with high pitching V12 engines which requires maximum effort of both driver and engineers, major accidents, great circuits like nurburgring Nordscheiffe and real drivers with actual personalities. 

Instead of this political correct, safety first and speed last F1 we got these days. Hell the freaking track records are all driven in 2003-2006. Because some moron thinks its better to rave with V6 engines. The removal of F1 girls only further the course of F1 being more of the latter.

It's a shame to see darts following the same trend though. Within 5 years the bear tables and booze will  probably be restricted as well. All to make these sports more family friendly and socially acceptable.



Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

The road to removing the objectification means that all forms of art including music and films must be on borrowed time, if these kind of agenda politics follow there natural course. I guess we will be going back to the days of men playing female and male roles. So much for equality.

What is the ultimate goal? Woman wearing full length Burkha type clothing? Will you be shunned the same way a paedophile is in this age for looking at women in the wrong way?

Merit and ability based equality should absolutely be the norm in this day and age. Nobody should have to suffer harassment or bullying. It is a shame the internet makes bullying and harassment much more rampant. The world has never been so divided as the place social media is taking us. These agenda based politics taking over is a double edged sword. No longer a case of right, wrong, truth, morality or ethics. It's a flat out growing hatred between two sides a normal rational person like myself can't opt out of, because I might agree with points of both sides or disagree wholey with both.

We're not at the stage where we can remove sexual desires. Sex has never been so easy to come by. That's not to the fault of men. The world wouldn't be a better place if we were all castrated at birth. Another decade maybe, when they might have perfected manipulating DNA so women can impregnate each other.

People need to use a bit more common sense now, because otherwise there will be more widespread rebellion and partition of society. Maybe they should send men back to mars. It is all such a sad state of affairs.



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The road to removing the objectification means that all forms of art including music and films must be on borrowed time, if these kind of agenda politics follow there natural course. I guess we will be going back to the days of men playing female and male roles. So much for equality.

What is the ultimate goal? Woman wearing full length Burkha type clothing? Will you be shunned the same way a paedophile is in this age for looking at women in the wrong way?

Merit and ability based equality should absolutely be the norm in this day and age. Nobody should have to suffer harassment or bullying. It is a shame the internet makes bullying and harassment much more rampant. The world has never been so divided as the place social media is taking us. These agenda based politics taking over is a double edged sword. No longer a case of right, wrong, truth, morality or ethics. It's a flat out growing hatred between two sides a normal rational person like myself can't opt out of, because I might agree with points of both sides or disagree wholey with both.

We're not at the stage where we can remove sexual desires. Sex has never been so easy to come by. That's not to the fault of men. The world wouldn't be a better place if we were all castrated at birth. Another decade maybe, when they might have perfected manipulating DNA so women can impregnate each other.

People need to use a bit more common sense now, because otherwise there will be more widespread rebellion and partition of society. Maybe they should send men back to mars. It is all such a sad state of affairs.



Teeqoz said:
Mummelmann said:

And I believe I never stated it was; the principal is what matters. Certain movements seek to prohibit choice, this isn't that far remover from abortion ethics and similar veins, it's still an organization, group, movement or other form of governing or ruling/influential body that seeks to remove choices and in same cases even shame those who oppose them.

Like I said; I never understood the point of scantily clad girls at sporting events, and I've never been to a strip joint, for instance. But the choice should at the very least exist, how someone chooses to show or don't show their body is entirely their business, man or woman, so long as it's not exposure (which the law already had covered). Whether a governing body, ruling seat or an organization influenced by some sort of lobbyist group of simply social pressure from movements bring about a ban is beside the point.

The choice does still exist. Formula E still has grid girls, and hey, if people are outraged about this decision, they are free to try and start their own formula racing tournament.

If a strip club were to rebrand itself to a restaurant, would you say they were removing the choice of the strippers to work as strippers? I mean maybe, but you can't force a company/corporation/organisation to keep a position. Others are free to compete with alternative offerings if they want...

Grid girls that really want to continue working as grid girls can seek out other formula racing venues and work there. They do have a choice. As far as I know, this isn't the FIA (the actual ruling organisation), this is just F1.

Choices still exist, but there are less of them available. Unless Formula E is willing to put up more openings, this is a net loss.



It really is sad that people want to limit the employment choices, and the general free will, of other people. If you object to hot chicks walking around next to other people, don't watch or participate. That's the only action in this regard that I can support, as it is an exercise of one's own freedom. Once you try to take opportunities away from other people, because you don't like what they do (or for pretty much any other reason) you've crossed the line, and I no longer respect your position.



Ka-pi96 said:
Qwark said:
At the end of the day those women are out of a job and F1/Darts fans who liked the culture and entertainment build around the sport, see those very sports lose personality yet again. The F1 was way better with high pitching V12 engines which requires maximum effort of both driver and engineers, major accidents, great circuits like nurburgring Nordscheiffe and real drivers with actual personalities.

Instead of this political correct, safety first and speed last F1 we got these days. The removal of F1 girls only further the course of F1 being more of the latter. It's a shame to see darts following the same trend though. Within 5 years the bear tables and booze will be restricted as well. All to make these sports more family friendly and socially acceptable.

You're actually arguing that it's better when people die? WTF?

Not when they died, but the sport is pretty much riscless these days. Back in the days people lived for the sport. Being a F1 driver wasn't just a business, it was a livestyle. Besides since 2000 there was only a single person that died. In 2014 if I remember correctly on Suzuka. Because from all safety measures, nobody thought it was a good idea to not let other vehicles than race cars on or near the track, without a safety car.

 

But yes back in the day most crashes where more spectecular, like they are in other races ports like the indie 500. Circuits these days are also manufactured for cars not be damaged or even ending up in the grind isn't a risk since everything is asphalt these days.

Last edited by Qwark - on 18 February 2018

Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

Ka-pi96 said:
Qwark said:

Not when they died, but the sport is pretty much riscless these days. Back in the days people lived for the sport. Being a F1 driver wasn't just a business, it was a livestyle. Besides since 2000 there was only a single person that died. In 2014 if I remember correctly on Suzuka. But yes back in the day most crashes where more spectecular, like they are in other races ports like the indie 500. Circuits these days are manufactured for cars not be damaged or even ending up in the grind isn't a risk since everything is asphalt these days.

What's wrong with there being no risk? That should be a good thing. It should be about competing to be the fastest driver, not people getting injured or dying.

Considering all fastest lap times are from 2003-2005 it's not even about speed. It's all about money and having the fastest ride under your ass, so dricing for the right team. During the 20th century we had a different winner almost every season. Why because some drivers where willing to take more risks even though they did not have the fastest car. The last eight seasons a single brand pretty much won by default. Now that doesn't have anything to do with being the fastest or best driver, but with luck.

Now the 1960's 1970's and the 1980's where to dangerous. But between 1995 and 2014 there wasn't a single fatal accident. Nonetheless the sport became more and more restricted from 2007 and onwards. Even when we got a driver who is willing to take risks  (Verstappen) it's more and more getting fround upon, especially by Ferrari. Being the fastest driver should being about being the fastest because you dare to take corners the fastest way, last minute breaking and overtaking. However that driving style isn't rewarded anymore, if anything you get penalties. All leading to the fact that when your ride is faster you pretty much win by default.

Last edited by Qwark - on 18 February 2018

Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar