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Forums - Politics Discussion - EU voted to end Geo Blocking!!

DonFerrari said:
setsunatenshi said:

@ bold: That's what you don't seem to understand, there's no "polish market", there's an European market.

 

It seems by several of your comments in this thread that you have some issue with consumer friendly EU regulations, which is puzzling to say the least as you're probably a consumer yourself, but most of all you're not an EU citizen nor do you live in the EU.

Feel free to correct me if I jumped to a wrong conclusion here.

You are the one not understanding... even if the whole globe were to be considered a single market without any barrier, tax, etc the interest of several different places are different.

Every single product have a market and people interested in it. So when someone releases a product at some place he may make it direct to it, that is a prerogative of who creates a product.

Everyone eats, still each one have different tastes and products one wants to eat. So one selling to the whole world won't try to sell horse meat on Brazil, pork meat to jews or cow to Indians.

I have a problem with government intervention, as they may all seem like customer friendly, good intended, etc... but freedom of trade is better than government imposition. So if you want Amazon per say to sell at the same price to all EU markets you and others can request Amazon to do it, when you demand the government to do, the end result more often than not won't be exactly you had in mind.

Let's break this down:

 

1- The EU is a single market. There's no hypothetical here of considering the whole world or whatever. As a EU citizens we have certain rights and obligations. Companies also have certain rights and obligations if they want to operate in the EU. As such, if the EU determines this Geo blocking within EU countries is unlawful, the companies must abide by it, period.

2- No one is saying where any company must sell their product, if they want to open a shop in Germany but not in France, that's their business. What they can't do is discriminate a consumer just because he's from a different EU country.

3- Your problem with government intervention is irrelevant to the discussion. The fact is we live in a society with laws, and the laws are made by the governments that are elected by the people. Feel free to use your vote and political speech to influence the types of laws that are passed, but there's no way a government will stop existing to create and enforce said laws.

4- Finally your example is completely flawed. If amazon.de wants to sell a product cheaper than amazon.fr, they are perfectly free to do so. What they can't do is block a French person from buying said product from their German store.

 

Hope it's a bit more clear now



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setsunatenshi said:
DonFerrari said:

You are the one not understanding... even if the whole globe were to be considered a single market without any barrier, tax, etc the interest of several different places are different.

Every single product have a market and people interested in it. So when someone releases a product at some place he may make it direct to it, that is a prerogative of who creates a product.

Everyone eats, still each one have different tastes and products one wants to eat. So one selling to the whole world won't try to sell horse meat on Brazil, pork meat to jews or cow to Indians.

I have a problem with government intervention, as they may all seem like customer friendly, good intended, etc... but freedom of trade is better than government imposition. So if you want Amazon per say to sell at the same price to all EU markets you and others can request Amazon to do it, when you demand the government to do, the end result more often than not won't be exactly you had in mind.

Let's break this down:

 

1- The EU is a single market. There's no hypothetical here of considering the whole world or whatever. As a EU citizens we have certain rights and obligations. Companies also have certain rights and obligations if they want to operate in the EU. As such, if the EU determines this Geo blocking within EU countries is unlawful, the companies must abide by it, period.

2- No one is saying where any company must sell their product, if they want to open a shop in Germany but not in France, that's their business. What they can't do is discriminate a consumer just because he's from a different EU country.

3- Your problem with government intervention is irrelevant to the discussion. The fact is we live in a society with laws, and the laws are made by the governments that are elected by the people. Feel free to use your vote and political speech to influence the types of laws that are passed, but there's no way a government will stop existing to create and enforce said laws.

4- Finally your example is completely flawed. If amazon.de wants to sell a product cheaper than amazon.fr, they are perfectly free to do so. What they can't do is block a French person from buying said product from their German store.

 

Hope it's a bit more clear now

1 - Sure, have I said the rule is illegal or that the companies that don't abide are doing so under the law. I just said that the government (or supragovernment shouldn't intefere on this) and that even considering smaller markets there are still geographical differences, because there is and it have nothing to do with law.

2 - If you open one in France and one in Germany and have different price that isn't discrimination them?

3 - If you are so willing to bend over and accept that government intervention shall have no boundaries all the power to you. Which still, until they approve a law prohibiting me to say it, take out my right to consider it unneeded and with more than often negative impact.

4 - Not flawed. If you demand that anyone within EU can buy from any online store, then the very existence of national sites becomes irrelevant.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Wow, that was even a thing? That runs counter to the entire purpose of the EU in the first place.



Barozi said:
Majin-Tenshinhan said:

... Obviously that I have had to pay fees, what else would it be?

It seems like you don't wanna talk about what you bought, what fee you had to pay, how much you paid and who told you to pay the fee.

What was the point about your first post in this thread then?

Lol, what kind of accusatory post is this? You never asked?

The only things I ever order are games, books or figurines, and I don't remember how much I had to pay, but we get tolls in Sweden ALL the time. You don't in Germany? Hey, good for you, congrats. Why are you acting as if this is some suspicious shit? I have to pay tons most of the time when I import, regardless of where it's from, and I know several other people who do to, not just in Sweden.



DonFerrari said:
setsunatenshi said:

Let's break this down:

 

1- The EU is a single market. There's no hypothetical here of considering the whole world or whatever. As a EU citizens we have certain rights and obligations. Companies also have certain rights and obligations if they want to operate in the EU. As such, if the EU determines this Geo blocking within EU countries is unlawful, the companies must abide by it, period.

2- No one is saying where any company must sell their product, if they want to open a shop in Germany but not in France, that's their business. What they can't do is discriminate a consumer just because he's from a different EU country.

3- Your problem with government intervention is irrelevant to the discussion. The fact is we live in a society with laws, and the laws are made by the governments that are elected by the people. Feel free to use your vote and political speech to influence the types of laws that are passed, but there's no way a government will stop existing to create and enforce said laws.

4- Finally your example is completely flawed. If amazon.de wants to sell a product cheaper than amazon.fr, they are perfectly free to do so. What they can't do is block a French person from buying said product from their German store.

 

Hope it's a bit more clear now

1 - Sure, have I said the rule is illegal or that the companies that don't abide are doing so under the law. I just said that the government (or supragovernment shouldn't intefere on this) and that even considering smaller markets there are still geographical differences, because there is and it have nothing to do with law.

2 - If you open one in France and one in Germany and have different price that isn't discrimination them?

3 - If you are so willing to bend over and accept that government intervention shall have no boundaries all the power to you. Which still, until they approve a law prohibiting me to say it, take out my right to consider it unneeded and with more than often negative impact.

4 - Not flawed. If you demand that anyone within EU can buy from any online store, then the very existence of national sites becomes irrelevant.

1- If the government doesn't "interfere" to correct anti-consumer behavior, then where exactly should they intervene? That's about the most useful thing the government can do. Make sure the consumer doesn't get abused by whichever companies. This is a regulated market.

2- Not really? It's up to the company to dictate the price they want to sell their goods. What they can't do is force me to buy them on shop A instead of shop B. The consumer should be free to pick which shop they want to spend their money (at least in the EU).

3- Government intervention absolutely has boundaries, that's why we have separation of powers between branches. Every law has to be confirmed constitutional before it goes into effect. That in itself is a boundary. Also, in a holistic way, the power comes back to the people when they are called to vote or speak their mind regarding any law they are against. I don't even understand what's your objection here.

4- Yes, in the EU we have a single market. And as a EU citizen I have the exact same right as any other citizen to buy a product from whatever other EU member state I wish. This is not even debatable. A company may create a specific website for a country, what they can't do is block users from other countries from it. It's really not as hard as you're making it out to be.



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torok said:
Nem said:

You know... i was thinking about it and since the trophies are the only problem, Sony could definitly have it on PSN aswell. It would just require you to go over a procedure to transfer trophies or the creation of a new account with said trophies when changing country. 

This legislation may make the whole process easier but SCE could definitly do it already. They are just weird that way.

Well, you also have all your digital content (games, DLC, films, etc) and your friend list. I really can't understand why they can't do something so simple.

Hmm good point. That could potentially be a problem.



DonFerrari said:
 

 

 
Nem said:

And why shouldn't it? Europe is a union. We have a single currency and we can freely buy things in one country or the one next door without any barriers. This barrier is therefore redundant and an unecessary obstacle and us, european consumers would benefit from it being teared down.

Btw, we are talking about europe, not the whole world. Thought i'd mention because you seem to have missed the beggining of the conversation and might be under the wrong impression. 

As I said before, your city is also a single one, still it's possible to go to 2 different stores of the same owner and see different prices... you know why? Because the cost to deliver the product in one place is different than the other and also the demand elasticity curve is different as well.

To mandate that companies practice a single price europe wide will make it that some places that got it lower will pay more and perhaps some places that paid more to pay less... there is very little reason to believe they would practice the lowest price available to all regions under new legislation.

I know it is talking exclusively about EU, ONU or any other supranational organization thank god still doesn't have supreme sovereign over the whole globe.

 
 

Well... yeah, that is why we are a union. That is the point. To have a unified single market. That market rivals the other big markets. You will still have choices if you so wish. It's not like every country is in the EU.

It's maybe difficult for you to see the advantages because you don't live in a landmass that has loads of small and mid sized countries where people can move freely between them. But to us, it is definitely beneficial. It's a quality of life improvement.



setsunatenshi said:
DonFerrari said:

1 - Sure, have I said the rule is illegal or that the companies that don't abide are doing so under the law. I just said that the government (or supragovernment shouldn't intefere on this) and that even considering smaller markets there are still geographical differences, because there is and it have nothing to do with law.

2 - If you open one in France and one in Germany and have different price that isn't discrimination them?

3 - If you are so willing to bend over and accept that government intervention shall have no boundaries all the power to you. Which still, until they approve a law prohibiting me to say it, take out my right to consider it unneeded and with more than often negative impact.

4 - Not flawed. If you demand that anyone within EU can buy from any online store, then the very existence of national sites becomes irrelevant.

1- If the government doesn't "interfere" to correct anti-consumer behavior, then where exactly should they intervene? That's about the most useful thing the government can do. Make sure the consumer doesn't get abused by whichever companies. This is a regulated market.

2- Not really? It's up to the company to dictate the price they want to sell their goods. What they can't do is force me to buy them on shop A instead of shop B. The consumer should be free to pick which shop they want to spend their money (at least in the EU).

3- Government intervention absolutely has boundaries, that's why we have separation of powers between branches. Every law has to be confirmed constitutional before it goes into effect. That in itself is a boundary. Also, in a holistic way, the power comes back to the people when they are called to vote or speak their mind regarding any law they are against. I don't even understand what's your objection here.

4- Yes, in the EU we have a single market. And as a EU citizen I have the exact same right as any other citizen to buy a product from whatever other EU member state I wish. This is not even debatable. A company may create a specific website for a country, what they can't do is block users from other countries from it. It's really not as hard as you're making it out to be.

1 - It is no abuse for a store to determine the price it will sell or where it will sell.

2 - They are not forcing you to buy, they aren't allowing you to buy from another store. Which is different on essence. Since you can just refuse to buy at all.

3 - Yes sure, all the democracies work perfectly fine and all the laws are the will of its people, and they certainly know them all.

4 - I'm not making it any hard, why don't you take your time and also demand that a grocery store on Italy sell and ship a bread to germany?



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Nem said:
DonFerrari said:

 

As I said before, your city is also a single one, still it's possible to go to 2 different stores of the same owner and see different prices... you know why? Because the cost to deliver the product in one place is different than the other and also the demand elasticity curve is different as well.

To mandate that companies practice a single price europe wide will make it that some places that got it lower will pay more and perhaps some places that paid more to pay less... there is very little reason to believe they would practice the lowest price available to all regions under new legislation.

I know it is talking exclusively about EU, ONU or any other supranational organization thank god still doesn't have supreme sovereign over the whole globe.

Well... yeah, that is why we are a union. That is the point. To have a unified single market. That market rivals the other big markets. You will still have choices if you so wish. It's not like every country is in the EU.

It's maybe difficult for you to see the advantages because you don't live in a landmass that has loads of small and mid sized countries where people can move freely between them. But to us, it is definitely beneficial. It's a quality of life improvement.

I didn't say there is no benefit to EU or having a bigger market. I said there is no point for all government intervention on economy.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Johnw1104 said:
Wow, that was even a thing? That runs counter to the entire purpose of the EU in the first place.

Which is basically why everyone is happy its going away, except for DonFerrari for some reason.