", since you obviously love to try to just shift what we're saying in attempt to denounce us rather than coming up with sources yourself. Show me sources that explain that socialism means "anything the government does""

government definition: the governing body of a nation, state, or community.

socialism definition: a political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

can you give me anything other government used to regulate on a society wide basis?

" Also, while we're at it, yes, they do get their wealth instantaneously, because it's often inherited, so it's not from their labour or effort as you're trying to insinuate."

did their parents just wave a magic wand and pull the money out of the aether? or did they work for it and pass it down to their descendants?

shouldn't it be obvious that i'm not talking about inheritance? 

are you now advocating for the state to take away the money from rich people when they die? i'm not saying you are implying this i'm just curious and lets not say state lets say "community" because that's different somehow

OK, so for government you didn't mean state, you meant a governing body of any community? Wouldn't that mean essentially every corporation is socialist then, since they govern their community of workers? In that sense capitalism doesn't exist then. And I'm advocating for the elimination of the state, wealth and classes in general, not merely social democratic policies.

"Ah, good old "not real capitalism"."

with regards to what? be specific because honestly i'm lost now

we went from talking about hitler's socialist policies (which you have not addressed btw) to talking about... well honestly i'm lost now

"Using your logic, Mr. Dawkins. That means we're all socialists"

that what? americans are all socialists? what are you talking about? please state clearly what i've posted that means we're all socialists

" Capitalism is not an ideology, it's a mode of production."

when did i claim that its an ideology? this what i stated about capitalism

"capitalism on the other hand is about leaving people to run their business with minimal or no government intervention"

" Of course it means something, you don't align with someone that you completely disagree with lmao."

i'm going to assume this is about your laim that hitler was allied with right wingers

...ok so what about his many socialist policies?

which is more important in determining his stance? his actions and policies or who he claims to be allies with?

something i'm really curious about btw is are you in denial that him seizing various private businesses is a socialist measure?

"How about you put down your dictionary and read some socialist literature, maybe you'll learn a bit about what socialists believe."

i have... i've gone all the way back to the origins of the term "liberal" and the first may 1st labour day which no one talks about now lol and i'm sure you don't know... since if you did you wouldn't be advocating for this ideology but this a digression are you giving up on talking about hitler's socialist policies?

is this like some kind of cop out now or something? lol if so its amusing thank you 

"Wouldn't that mean essentially every corporation is socialist then, since they govern their community of workers?"

how in the fuck do you jump from i said to this?

A business is a body that governs its community of workers, so if a body that governs a community counts as government, then every business is a government, and through your claim that government action is socialist, that means that every business is socialist. So, what is capitalism then if every business is socialist? People that work on their own or people that work without registering as a business?

" so if a body that governs a community counts as government"

we are talking on a state wide basis not down at the level of individual companies obviously... whenever you've heard the term government what were the  people referring to? i mean are you playing dumb right now?

" So, what is capitalism"

as i've said capitalism refers to private ownership of businesses 

if the government then chooses to seize control of a business that is socialism at work as i said to the other guy

Ah, so government just means the state then? So does that mean that trade unions can't be considered socialist if they're independent from the state? And if capitalism is private ownership of business, why would the government seizing control of it count as socialism? They could just seize it and re-privatize it, so that'd still count as capitalism then.

You're hilarious, dude. I am greatly amused by your posts.

First go back and read my post, I already debunked your post: Yes and HOT DOGS are also made out of real dogs! Maybe you don't live in a first world country but surprise, we do all of the things you listed here.

YOU equated social security with socialism when you listed Hitler's "socialist policies", somehow you didn't realise that most of those policies are also implemented in practically ever developed country today. Whoops! I thought you were trying to debunk socialism here?

Your definition of capitalism is a fantasy, it doesn't work like that in the real world, and it never did.

Are you in denial about Hitler privatizing the economy? If you read the link you would know that the property used to be public, hence PRIVATIZATION therefore your point is moot.

Nice, which socialist literature did you read? Let us all know, I eagerly await to see.


So let's review. You replied to Jaicee and used Nazi Germany as an example of socialism gone wrong. I countered it, then you shot back by listing social security measures the Nazis did, which I stated is used by other countries, which then you approved of (surprisingly), so I turned your argument on you to conclude that all who use these measures must be socialist, and now you're confused.

You're confused because you've effectively set fire to your own argument here, so now if you don't want to accept the logical conclusion of your own argument. You need to go back to my original post.

"Maybe you don't live in a first world country but surprise, we do all of the things you listed here."

yeah i shouldn't have agreed with this entirely before that was my mistake, its just that these discussions have been so ridiculous that at some point it'd inevitable that i'd miss something anyway

using america as an example

in terms of healthcare have you missed the recent debates on that? (socialists have been advocating for socialised healthcare)

in terms of education i suppose you have a point there

in terms of putting everyone to work... that's not a policy america has (again socialists have been advocating for this)

gun control... again this not a policy (and again socialists have been advocating for this)

abortion... well yeah you have a point there

blaming all of the ills of society on the rich... well you know i'm sure you can see the pattern by now

"YOU equated social security with socialism when you listed Hitler's "socialist policies", somehow you didn't realise that most of those policies are also implemented in practically ever developed country today."

most countries have been going down a socialist path... and your point is? did i ever deny that? 

"Your definition of capitalism is a fantasy, it doesn't work like that in the real world, and it never did."

its ideal capitalism but yes it doesn't work like that because the social needs of the community exert some degree of control on how businesses operate and didn't say otherwise

as i said before what actually happens is that there is some compromise between both capitalism and socialism although many times thoughtout history things have tilted too far to the socialist end and resulted in situations like hitler's germany and soviet russia

"Are you in denial about Hitler privatizing the economy?"

how did hitler guarantee jobs for everyone in germany if the economy was privitised?

"Nice, which socialist literature did you read? Let us all know, I eagerly await to see."

i've studied the history of the jacobins and the illuminists all the way back to the knights templar... as i've said i'm sure i know more about the history of these ideas than you do but that's irrelevant

Which socialists advocate for gun control? Most don't as they see violent revolution as the only means of achieving revolution.

Also, I showed you that Germany didn't guarantee jobs for everyone, women and Jews were not guaranteed jobs.