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Forums - Gaming Discussion - How do the visuals on the Nintendo Switch compare to those of the Xbox 360 & PS3?

 

The Nintendo Switch hardware is...

A big leap over 7th gen 71 40.11%
 
A minor leap over 7th gen 72 40.68%
 
About the same as 7th gen 24 13.56%
 
Actually WORSE than last gen 10 5.65%
 
Total:177

I'm sure Nintendo can create titles that go for more realistic graphics and such. They have published games like Eternal Darkness and their own Metroid series is close to realistic than most of their franchises. Heck, Miyamoto worked with Kojima in developing Metal Gear Solid: Twin Snakes. Then you got Twilight Princess that was an answer to all the critics and fans who wanted a more realistic Zelda after Wind Waker.

It's just that Nintendo is likely not interested in making games with realistic graphics. They don't rely on making games with that kind of design philosophy in comparison with Sony and Microsoft. Most here should know the story by now about Nintendo's development philosophies. Neither is philosophy is better than the other. Ultimately, they all seek to create great gaming experiences.

Last edited by Kai_Mao - on 29 January 2018

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Pemalite said:

It's not debatable because the games eventually proved it.

Not really because technically extensive games released towards the end of the generation like COD (I know you don't appreciate the series but the technical leads behind it are highly talented like it or not), Mass Effect 3, Ghost Recon Future Soldier, Max Payne 3, Sleeping Dogs, Borderlands 2, Arkham Origins, MGSV and especially Shadow of Mordor all showed Sony's platform still struggling despite their competent efforts ... (the latter most example highlights 360's most unique advantage and most likely resides in hardware as well)

Nothing is a slam dunk in the bag like you seem to think it is ... (technical superiority is more than just graphics and higher resolution textures) 

Pemalite said:

If a port is shit, then it's shit. No point mincing words in order to avoid offending people.
I am Australian, we tend not to care.

I am apprised on how difficult it is to be a developer, but if the port is crap, it's crap. I am not going to do a dance and a song and pretend it is good.

It's not even about paying lip service, that's just reality. Sometimes ports or even acceptable ones at that really aren't possible with divergent hardware design ... 

Pemalite said: 

 

Yeah. There is no point having this debate.
The Gamecube was superior to the Playstation 2 overall, the games have proved it, that's the evidence. - Trying to say otherwise is simply disingenuous and nonsensical.

The same applies the other way around. (you don't benchmark hardware based on specific exclusives, coming to a fair consensus requires more than benchmarking just technically impressive titles) You really can't discount the many other cases just because a few games shine on a specific piece of hardware ... 

And as for trying to argue otherwise, this former developer would seem to think so ... (along with his many other interesting proceeding posts)

We can make the same argument for previous AMD vs Nvidia hardware but nothing is going to change the fact most code ran slower on the former despite having a "few" key fast paths ... (what is and what isn't superior is nearly entirely situational and I don't think you understand this) 

Pemalite said: 

Tessellation is being used, it's there in most Frostbite games. It's even in PUBG.

If you have an AMD GPU you can even turn it off and see the increase in performance in most modern games, sometimes the visual reduction isn't very severe either. Heck even Overwatch saw a small uptick in performance when I turned the Tessellator off on the Core2Quad rig.

Not sure how a Maxwell Polymorph engine stacks up against GCN 1.0 geometry engine though, but I would assume the Polymorph engine is more capable.

Truform is also end of life and is no longer supported by AMD's drivers or even included at the silicon level... It was replaced by the Tessellator.
Relying on N-Patches to Tessellate placed to much of a strain on development.

Async Compute is one of the main focuses in engine/game development right now and holds a ton of promise.

Nah, tessellation is dead for the most part just like geometry shaders are. Most AAA games don't even try to implement the feature and what you said about most Frostbite games featuring it is not true since the last game to feature it was Star Wars Battlefront ... 

And the small uptick you saw is probably within margin of error as tessellation isn't explicitly implemented in the game. BTW consoles are GCN 2 ... 

Tessellation is just a bad idea in general. It will forever remain as one of the biggest crap stain on real time graphics technology, Microsoft and the industry screwed up horribly at the time and now graphics programmers/hardware designers have to suffer for whoever wished for it. I seriously wish the industry had some more foresight otherwise we wouldn't end up with a crowded x86 opcode space or Spectre/Meltdown ... (Why couldn't we have hardware for vertex compression when tessellation is just a bad form of geometry compression ?)

Hopefully async compute does get traction since it's also supported in Apple Metal ... (even though they're designing their own GPUs although not desktop graphics)



leap over 360/ps3



NND: 0047-7271-7918 | XBL: Nights illusion | PSN: GameNChick

PwerlvlAmy said:
leap over 360/ps3

I thought we chased you outta here!



d21lewis said:
PwerlvlAmy said:
leap over 360/ps3

I thought we chased you outta here!

you did. but you didnt.

 

mandella effect



NND: 0047-7271-7918 | XBL: Nights illusion | PSN: GameNChick

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Kristof81 said:
Miyamotoo said:

Thats also not hole picture, comparing raw numbers of tech/architecture from different decades don't make too much sense. :)

Of course. Considering differences in architectures of those two systems (not to mention PS3),  the exact comparison is pretty much impossible. But even in raw numbers, the picture is very clear. Switch isn't just a marginally better system, but also isn't a giant leap in performance, like PS4 for example. 7th gen ports will run and look better than on X360, period. That's why, from all four answers  "A minor leap..." in my opinion, is the most appropriate answer.  

I'm a big fan of nvidia GPU's and no question the Switch graphic hardware is more powerful but that chart doesn't allow for the huge 256GB/s bandwidth between the 360 GPU and its dedicated 10MB of video memory which is often cited for being why many 360 games outperform PS3. The wii u has only 12.8GB/s of main memory bandwidth but again 32MB of high bandwidth memory. Same design philosophy in xbox one too with its own 32MB of high bandwidth memory. It's a design  approach in all 3 consoles that does work well for compensating for lower main memory bandwidth. 

I think when comparing Switch and the older consoles really the only weaknesses that come into play are low CPU performance and maybe lack of memory bandwidth, the GPU architecture is hugely improved and in the case of docked performance is clearly at a much higher performance level. Add to that the much larger main memory negates much of the memory shuffling, streaming solutions the 350, PS3 and wii u are forced to do which can slow down those systems the larger the game engine becomes. Seeing the ps3 really slow down with games like Skyrim where it simply hasn't really got the memory to comfortably handle that game is not something the Switch has to worry about. 

Again my view is as weaker hardware the Switch won't get the more ambitious games of today which will be reserved for the more powerful consoles and PC except for a few cutdown compromised versions occasionally and will only get a small number of conversions of ambitious games of the ps3/350 era even though it could enhance such games unless CPU intensive so ultimately the Switch will never have the wide range of impressive ambitious games as last gen or current gen purely for commercial reasons. There will always be pressure on Switch games to be simplified not just because cartridges are expensive especially for third party developers but also because Switch has very limited storage. I mean how many 50GB games can you fit in 32GB or 32GB with a 64GB micro SD card?

LA Noire on Switch has superior resolution and textures which shows hte superior GPU at work but inferior frame rate, much less animated objects in distance and actual gameplay slowdown compared to PS3 and 350 which shows the weaker CPU struggling. Generally the gameplay experience is much better on ps3 and 360 but eye candy is better on Switch.

We are also seeing many Switch games go sub 720P in portable mode below that of 360 and PS3. If it wasn't for the huge memory advantage of Switch and the later architecture of the GPU there may be a case to say portable Switch is inferior to PS3 and 360. As it is I would put portable Switch performance as broadly at the same level as PS3 and 360 in my opinion. Especially as many games on Switch will try to lower the performance level in order to maximise battery runtime when in portable mode so there is always pressure to use less resources undocked. 

Again though delivering pretty much 360/PS3 performance on a portable console is pretty amazing. I'm still actually pretty happy with the ps3 and 360 performance level although ps4 and xbone is nicer. I don't think I'm alone with that either especially with the huge success of the Switch worldwide. I think we are all very happy with the performance level the Switch is delivering, its not like realistically we could have expected much more from a portable system. My only issue is I wished they tweaked the CPU's a bit higher maybe 1.4Ghz? Just to plug the CPU shortfall over 360 to prevent issues like we see in LA Noire.



Miyamotoo said:
SegataSanshiro said:

I've read  Brainchild stuff before on Era and that is a dude who truly knows his stuff. It's like Niel Degrasse Tyson of explaining how games work lol.

Yeah, but buy @quickrick he is just some random Nintendo fanboy. :D

 

 

GhaudePhaede010 said: =

 



Pemalite said:
fatslob-:O said:

It's still pretty debatable. PS3 was NUMA in it's extremist form. Segmented physical memory meant level designs had to be smaller to avoid stutters, SPE's did not have access to main memory and instead had 256KB local stores so a DMA engine had to be used to communicate between the two, heterogeneous processor and virtual memory, no eDRAM (made PS3 struggled more often with alpha effects compared to 360), lower geometry performance and no unified shaders made load balancing nearly impossible so some efficiency is lost right there ... (similar situation applies to WII U) 

It's not debatable because the games eventually proved it.

fatslob-:O said:

Calling ports shit highly undermines the technical difficulties in a developers work and I don't think you understand the hardships that technical developers have to go through ... (not every port can be built to take advantage of each platforms, much less sometimes there not possible in the case of 6th gen) 

If a port is shit, then it's shit. No point mincing words in order to avoid offending people.
I am Australian, we tend not to care.

I am apprised on how difficult it is to be a developer, but if the port is crap, it's crap. I am not going to do a dance and a song and pretend it is good.

fatslob-:O said:

Because many games used different technologies back then so comparisons couldn't made on a binary basis, at that point the terms "superior" and "inferior" became subjective ... 

There were GC games built that couldn't be ran on the PS2 in the same way but the same easily applied the other way around. There were things to appreciate that other couldn't do so neither had a definitive advantage ... (GC wasn't very good at vertex processing or alpha effects to the same degree like the PS2 was and PS2 didn't have texture compression or a flexible texture combiner system) 

I recount an instance at Beyond3D where one developer said GC was easily the worst performing platform of three based on his experience especially in the case if the GPU had to clip some triangles ... 

Yeah. There is no point having this debate.
The Gamecube was superior to the Playstation 2 overall, the games have proved it, that's the evidence. - Trying to say otherwise is simply disingenuous and nonsensical.

fatslob-:O said:

Tessellation is useless since nearly no developers are using it anymore (concept was great but technology/implementation sucked plus there were issues with quad shading efficiency) and I doubt it's an advantage for Switch since it doesn't have a very high geometry throughput to begin with. (384M tri/s at the absolute lowest ? 360 was able to do 500M tri/s while PS3 was half rate ?) Polymorph and Truform ended up being dead silicon, I bet async compute will get more traction than current tessellation technology ever could ... 

Tessellation is being used, it's there in most Frostbite games. It's even in PUBG.
If you have an AMD GPU you can even turn it off and see the increase in performance in most modern games, sometimes the visual reduction isn't very severe either. Heck even Overwatch saw a small uptick in performance when I turned the Tessellator off on the Core2Quad rig.

Not sure how a Maxwell Polymorph engine stacks up against GCN 1.0 geometry engine though, but I would assume the Polymorph engine is more capable.

Truform is also end of life and is no longer supported by AMD's drivers or even included at the silicon level... It was replaced by the Tessellator.
Relying on N-Patches to Tessellate placed to much of a strain on development.

Async Compute is one of the main focuses in engine/game development right now and holds a ton of promise.

exclusives are not a great to compare hardware at all, people said 360 could never run uncharted 1 or 2, or even kill zone early, then 360 came out with better looking game, what's technically  more impressive is highly subjective, for Example DF thinks halo 4 stands up to any ps4 exclusive. comparing a different game with different engine, different art different developers is none sense imo, for example ps4 exclusives make xbox  one exclusives look last gen, it makes ps4 seem way more powerful then 40%, multiplatform on the other hand give a much picture of how the hardware stacks up, its not perfect but it tell where developers are struggling with the hardware. 

Last edited by quickrick - on 01 February 2018

quickrick said:
Miyamotoo said:

Yeah, but buy @quickrick he is just some random Nintendo fanboy. :D

 

 

 

Hahaha damn now they have nothing to say to that xD Good find my man xDDD



quickrick said:
Miyamotoo said:

Yeah, but buy @quickrick he is just some random Nintendo fanboy. :D

 

 

 

You do realise you said that GTAV for you is more impresive and that this guy is Nintendo fanboy!? :D