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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Gameware Stops Selling Xbox Systems in Reaction to Recent Game Pass Announcement

Puppyroach said:
LivingMetal said:

Yep.  I was right. 

The top selling consoles are the Switch and PS4.  So in theory (and generally proven in reality), retailers will profit more by allocating more "shelf space" to those consoles.  So in the short run when consumers are buying less physical copies of Xbox One games, retailers might as well use that space to promote BOTH hardware and software for the Switch and PS4.

Yeah, you can be as childish as you want, or just try to argue the points instead :). 

 

And you are not giving an argument to seize with offering the console itself. Just replace "Xbox" with "PS4" and you might see how irrational it would seem then. I'm not upset one bit about their decision, they can sell whatever they want. But the reasoning seems illogical. If their argument would be that they will seize with selling Xbox because it doesn't sell well, that is only a rational step.

Offering business sense is not being childish. If I were a gaming store and sold gaming consoles, I would also like to sell the software with it. After all, gaming stores sell gaming products including software. If I were selling Xbox Ones,  I would like to have a healthy repeat customer base  to come back and buy the games for the console to help support my business, employees, and family. If there is  less of a chance of a repeat customer base  for a particular product, that product is of a higher risk factor than, let's say, the Nintendo switch or the Sony PlayStation 4. It's called "running a smart business."

Being childish is being spiteful over a retailer not favoring your console choice.



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Puppyroach said:

On the other hand, even when you buy a physical game, you actually buy a digital product, it's only the medium where it's stored that is different. 

The physical vs digital debate was done long time ago, the only thing I can say is that I'm barely 25 and sometimes I feel like those oldschool dinos, man.

"Digital games will be cheaper because .... and all other stuff. Now I buy cheaper retail games and sell it for 3/4 price....



Puppyroach said:
LivingMetal said:

Yep.  I was right. 

The top selling consoles are the Switch and PS4.  So in theory (and generally proven in reality), retailers will profit more by allocating more "shelf space" to those consoles.  So in the short run when consumers are buying less physical copies of Xbox One games, retailers might as well use that space to promote BOTH hardware and software for the Switch and PS4.

Yeah, you can be as childish as you want, or just try to argue the points instead :). 

 

And you are not giving an argument to seize with offering the console itself. Just replace "Xbox" with "PS4" and you might see how irrational it would seem then. I'm not upset one bit about their decision, they can sell whatever they want. But the reasoning seems illogical. If their argument would be that they will seize with selling Xbox because it doesn't sell well, that is only a rational step.

Yes removing their main console seller and one that sell a lot of SW on their store and don't have policies against their way of doing business is just the same as removing X1... and sure the ad hominem seal the deal.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Mr Puggsly said:
VideoGameAccountant said:
Gamestop's reaction is unsurprising, of course, I also don't expect this program Microsoft is doing to really go anywhere as the value of Microsoft's games has fallen off a cliff (otherwise, XBox One would be doing better).

Wii U great exclusives, frankly some of the same notable stuff on Switch. How'd that do?

Also, how well could X1 be doing with a few more notable games? Like how much better would it do?

Fair point. Let me put it this way. The Wii U flopped and its games are definitely to blame, but Nintendo has been good about keeping a loyal fanbase. There were games on the Wii U that the Nintendo fan liked, even if it couldn't appeal to a wider market. This is also why Switch can succeed because Nintendo's games do attract people when the company has their shit together. Nintendo held on to their core, but Microsoft doesn't seem to be doing that. The base seems to be gone. 

And to answer your second question, it depends. Strong games always drive system sales and one game can change everything. The problem Microsoft has is they didn't create another hit after Halo or Gears. Rare never released a major success on XBox and their other studios didn't do much besides Fabel. The Kinect experiment may have also hurt them because their studios were focused on making Kinect games rather than the next big series. So when Microsoft tries to go away from Kinect, there's nothing to go back to. Sony's line-up isn't great, but at least its something and at least the company has a long history in games. With Microsoft, the rats all fled the sinking ship. The Wii U kept Nintendo diehards, but I can't say XBox One kept the Microsoft diehards. That's why I think this project won't work. 

As an aside, this looks like experimentation. It seems Microsoft is more looking into alternatives rather than trying to save the XBox One or try to relaunch with a new system. 



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VideoGameAccountant said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Wii U great exclusives, frankly some of the same notable stuff on Switch. How'd that do?

Also, how well could X1 be doing with a few more notable games? Like how much better would it do?

Fair point. Let me put it this way. The Wii U flopped and its games are definitely to blame, but Nintendo has been good about keeping a loyal fanbase. There were games on the Wii U that the Nintendo fan liked, even if it couldn't appeal to a wider market. This is also why Switch can succeed because Nintendo's games do attract people when the company has their shit together. Nintendo held on to their core, but Microsoft doesn't seem to be doing that. The base seems to be gone. 

And to answer your second question, it depends. Strong games always drive system sales and one game can change everything. The problem Microsoft has is they didn't create another hit after Halo or Gears. Rare never released a major success on XBox and their other studios didn't do much besides Fabel. The Kinect experiment may have also hurt them because their studios were focused on making Kinect games rather than the next big series. So when Microsoft tries to go away from Kinect, there's nothing to go back to. Sony's line-up isn't great, but at least its something and at least the company has a long history in games. With Microsoft, the rats all fled the sinking ship. The Wii U kept Nintendo diehards, but I can't say XBox One kept the Microsoft diehards. That's why I think this project won't work. 

As an aside, this looks like experimentation. It seems Microsoft is more looking into alternatives rather than trying to save the XBox One or try to relaunch with a new system. W

Even with WiiU bombing hard Nintendo IPs sold higher on its 15M than MS could sell Halo and Gears on its 35M userbase.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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DonFerrari said:
VideoGameAccountant said:

Fair point. Let me put it this way. The Wii U flopped and its games are definitely to blame, but Nintendo has been good about keeping a loyal fanbase. There were games on the Wii U that the Nintendo fan liked, even if it couldn't appeal to a wider market. This is also why Switch can succeed because Nintendo's games do attract people when the company has their shit together. Nintendo held on to their core, but Microsoft doesn't seem to be doing that. The base seems to be gone. 

And to answer your second question, it depends. Strong games always drive system sales and one game can change everything. The problem Microsoft has is they didn't create another hit after Halo or Gears. Rare never released a major success on XBox and their other studios didn't do much besides Fabel. The Kinect experiment may have also hurt them because their studios were focused on making Kinect games rather than the next big series. So when Microsoft tries to go away from Kinect, there's nothing to go back to. Sony's line-up isn't great, but at least its something and at least the company has a long history in games. With Microsoft, the rats all fled the sinking ship. The Wii U kept Nintendo diehards, but I can't say XBox One kept the Microsoft diehards. That's why I think this project won't work. 

As an aside, this looks like experimentation. It seems Microsoft is more looking into alternatives rather than trying to save the XBox One or try to relaunch with a new system. W

Even with WiiU bombing hard Nintendo IPs sold higher on its 15M than MS could sell Halo and Gears on its 35M userbase.

MS, Sony, and Sega have never beaten Nintendo in 1st party in attach rates.

Because of this, your argument is irrelevant. The people buying Wii U's primarily just wanted Nintendo games.



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Mr Puggsly said:
DonFerrari said:

Even with WiiU bombing hard Nintendo IPs sold higher on its 15M than MS could sell Halo and Gears on its 35M userbase.

MS, Sony, and Sega have never beaten Nintendo in 1st party in attach rates.

Because of this, your argument is irrelevant. The people buying Wii U's primarily just wanted Nintendo games.

People buying Nintendo HW primarily wants Nintendo games =p which in itself shows that it isn't exactly the quality of Nintendo games (which is more or less constantly high) that make their console sales grow or diminish.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

VideoGameAccountant said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Wii U great exclusives, frankly some of the same notable stuff on Switch. How'd that do?

Also, how well could X1 be doing with a few more notable games? Like how much better would it do?

Fair point. Let me put it this way. The Wii U flopped and its games are definitely to blame, but Nintendo has been good about keeping a loyal fanbase. There were games on the Wii U that the Nintendo fan liked, even if it couldn't appeal to a wider market. This is also why Switch can succeed because Nintendo's games do attract people when the company has their shit together. Nintendo held on to their core, but Microsoft doesn't seem to be doing that. The base seems to be gone. 

And to answer your second question, it depends. Strong games always drive system sales and one game can change everything. The problem Microsoft has is they didn't create another hit after Halo or Gears. Rare never released a major success on XBox and their other studios didn't do much besides Fabel. The Kinect experiment may have also hurt them because their studios were focused on making Kinect games rather than the next big series. So when Microsoft tries to go away from Kinect, there's nothing to go back to. Sony's line-up isn't great, but at least its something and at least the company has a long history in games. With Microsoft, the rats all fled the sinking ship. The Wii U kept Nintendo diehards, but I can't say XBox One kept the Microsoft diehards. That's why I think this project won't work. 

As an aside, this looks like experimentation. It seems Microsoft is more looking into alternatives rather than trying to save the XBox One or try to relaunch with a new system. 

"Fair point, now here's my convoluted argument."

You say Nintendo's games are to blame for Wii U's failure, is that typo? The problem wasn't the games, the problem was the hardware/controller. Wii U was expensive and the tablet control was dumb as a primary controller. If they stuck with Wiimotes it would have been cheaper and sold better.

I've had this discussion with people, its often argued the problem with X1 is it lacks a huge new IP. N64 had Goldeneye. Xbox had Halo and Fable. Xbox 360 had Gears of War. Wii U had Splatoon. However, X1's 35 million sales and growing means it has crushed N64, OG Xbox, and WIi U in spite of lacking a huge IP. As for Xbox 360, that console thrived thanks to the failure of PS3 and that lead to a plethora of support.

The reason X1 struggling today is because mistakes at launch, that shifted the momentum back to PlayStation. Bascially, Sony regained it momentum that was lost from PS3. Regardless what MS does and regardless if they get a great selling new IP, they still have to compete with the momentum of PS4. Even if 10 or 20 million people buy a X1 to play some HUGE NEW IP, it would still be way behind PS4. This is why your argument holds no water.

You basically praise Wii U for maintaining die hard fans, meanwhile the X1 crushed it in sales. That tells me the die hard fans don't matter as much as the masses. People buy X1 because it has large library of notable games AND notable exclusives.

What is your perception of saving Xbox? If its profitable and has a viable userbase, it doesn't need saving per se. Efforts are clearly being made to grow the userbase as well. The X1X just released, the Xbox One S is generally competitively priced, numerous exclusives are coming this year, and numerous more are planned. Realistically, what more do you expect?

Last edited by Mr Puggsly - on 27 January 2018

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DonFerrari said:
Mr Puggsly said:

MS, Sony, and Sega have never beaten Nintendo in 1st party in attach rates.

Because of this, your argument is irrelevant. The people buying Wii U's primarily just wanted Nintendo games.

People buying Nintendo HW primarily wants Nintendo games =p which in itself shows that it isn't exactly the quality of Nintendo games (which is more or less constantly high) that make their console sales grow or diminish.

Uhm... I wasn't arguing the problem was Nintendo's games. The tablet control was a terrible idea and I believe that alone killed the Wii U.

Again, the same Wii U console instead using WIimotes as its primary controller would have been more successful AND cheaper.



Recently Completed
River City: Rival Showdown
for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

Teeqoz said:
AlfredoTurkey said:

If Game Pass takes off and Sony/Nintendo follow suit, all of those you mentioned will likely do the same. There's simply no point in stocking hardware when no one is going to buy games for it in your store. The game industry has always made its money off software.

Nah, most general retailers sell tons of things purely for customer retention. We do so at work, nothing game related (including software) makes us money in any meaningful quantity, but we still sell it, because we want to retain those customers so that they come asking us when they want to buy something that DOES make us money.

That's not what the big box guys have said. They're totally against it.