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Forums - Sales Discussion - Global Hardware 23 December 2017

Intrinsic said:
i have a question....

let's assume the PS4 has reached it's peak. and let's assume it only manages to sell 15M consoles this year and the NS sells 20M consoles this year.

let's also assume that in 2019 the PS4 only manages 10M sales and the NS pulls in another 20M year.

How long will it take for the NS to reach or better yet pass the PS4?

well in your case scenario....

2018 ends:
PS4 ~90m
NSW ~32m

2019 ends:
PS4 ~100m
NSW ~52m

How long does it then take? depends on if you think the NSW is going over 120m or so.
It might never make it that far.



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Biggerboat1 said:
DonFerrari said:

Yes sure... "genuinely good games" is that the cop out? A game sells 20M on other platforms but almost nothing in a Nintendo platform, it mus be because it isn't genuinely good, like Nintendo fans are the ones to decide what is genuinely good and the rest buy any garbage.

I'll point you a complete VGC community that complains about most if not all 3rd party games, and if one game doesn't get ported (one he wouldn't buy anyway) the company deserves to go broke for their lack of love and support for Nintendo.

But still waiting for you to point me a genre where Nintendo have a hallmark game that is outsold by a 3rd party multiplatform game in consonance with what happens on other platforms where in fact most of the top sellers are 3rd parties...

Like I said, there are certain genres that I don't see selling on Nintendo consoles - sport simulations for instance.

However there are many success stories already on Switch that show there is an appetite for non-nintendo titles. Lots of smaller games yes, but 3rd party nonetheless.

Remember that so far, the bigger budget 3rd party offerings are mostly all older ports, that many Switch owners will already own on another platform. So, they're never going to be sales monsters.

Games don't have to outsell their Nintendo equivalents to be considered successful, that's quite a bizarre definition you're driving at their...

The problem with your argument is that 3rd party support for the last 3 or 4 generations has been extremely weak - so comparing the sales to Nintendo's own games isn't going to prove anything other than they are for the most part, much better games. Just look at review scores of Nintendo games vs 3rd party games released on Nintendo consoles any time in the last 15 - 20 years...

The problem with my argument is that you are only able to accept anti-Nintendo bias and not anti-3rd party Bias.

If you accept that from all developers some may have one or another game that is best than Nintendo offering, but the top sellers on Nintendo console are all Nintendo... and your claim of sports is a little weak since Nintendo can make and sell greatly Mario Tennis, Golfe, Basebal and Soccer.

I didn't say anything about what defines a success... but you said that considering Nintendo have games in all genres it's impossible to not like any of their games without prejudice and being a hater, but for you it's possible that no 3rd party can have a game that Nintendo doesn't have something in that genre that outsell it. Sorry to burst it for you, but Nintendo fans aren't better or worse than any other fan, and if you accept there is anti-Nintendo bias there is just as much pro-Nintendo bias and anti-3rd party Bias.

peachbuggy said:
DonFerrari said:

Sorry man, it goes two ways...

Nintendo fans (you can look in this site) are very positive on their anti-3rd parties hate, and calling it deserved... but when it is on people that aren't interested in Nintendo games it must be a hater that hates only for the sake of it because no one couldn't be interested in at least one game from Nintendo.

It is the same coin, on one side you aren't accepting that ALL 3rd parties TOGETHER can't be better and sell better than any game Nintendo have in the genre. Just look at your argument it is basically the same put inverting Nintendo with 3rd parties.

Nope man, on the thread about the produce 30M ships 25M or produces 25M ships 20M, that was how  the rumor was, that Nintendo would produce 5M more than they intended to ship, which of course is bizarre.

Pretty sure that was someone just misunderstanding the original rumour and putting their own "spin" on it.

Unfortunately there were someone that discussed with me for like 2h that it made sense for Nintendo to produce 30M and only ship 25M, because parts could become unavailable or they would get a major discount for a higher bulk, no mater if that would mean 1.5B of inventory stopped on the manufacturing line and like 6 months of consumption on a slower month.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Also it's a false equivalence to say that a Nintendo fan's positive prejudice amounts to the same as an anti-nintendo fan's negative prejudice.

A Nintendo fan becomes devoted to the company and its games because they've enjoyed a seminal selection of games over years or even decades. It has been earned. 

The anti-nintendo fan generally doesn't play any or many of the companies games, but rather draws on a pre-existing bias. 

Again, I'm not saying everyone has to like every Nintendo game, but I just don't find it credible that an honest fan of many genres of game can't find a good deal to enjoy within Nintendo's catalogue.

And this goes for any developer. Just because I don't own an Xbox or PlayStation doesn't mean that I doubt there'd be titles on them that I'd enjoy! 

Every developer has a certain style for making games. Playstation and Nintendo are very far apart in that regard. Or the new bayonetta and the new god of war, as far as exclusives go. I can imagine someone enjoying let's say resident evil 4 but doesn't like the last of us.

 

Sony's style of games is way more presentation and story driven and tends to blur the line between cinema and game. While Nintendo puts 90% of their focus on gameplay and wave a story etc around that. Nintendo tjeir games will never try to blur lines between games and other media. There are always a few exceptions. But I can see someone enjoying nearly all Nintendo games and disliking near all Sony games or the other way around. It doesn't say much about the quality of the game, just your preferences for one or the other. I like Sony's approach more and I think odyssey is way to weird for me, although botw seems pretty cool, although I still don't like the artstyle.



Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

Qwark said:

Also it's a false equivalence to say that a Nintendo fan's positive prejudice amounts to the same as an anti-nintendo fan's negative prejudice.

A Nintendo fan becomes devoted to the company and its games because they've enjoyed a seminal selection of games over years or even decades. It has been earned. 

The anti-nintendo fan generally doesn't play any or many of the companies games, but rather draws on a pre-existing bias. 

Again, I'm not saying everyone has to like every Nintendo game, but I just don't find it credible that an honest fan of many genres of game can't find a good deal to enjoy within Nintendo's catalogue.

And this goes for any developer. Just because I don't own an Xbox or PlayStation doesn't mean that I doubt there'd be titles on them that I'd enjoy! 

Every developer has a certain style for making games. Playstation and Nintendo are very far apart in that regard. Or the new bayonetta and the new god of war, as far as exclusives go. I can imagine someone enjoying let's say resident evil 4 but doesn't like the last of us.

 

Sony's style of games is way more presentation and story driven and tends to blur the line between cinema and game. While Nintendo puts 90% of their focus on gameplay and wave a story etc around that. Nintendo tjeir games will never try to blur lines between games and other media. There are always a few exceptions. But I can see someone enjoying nearly all Nintendo games and disliking near all Sony games or the other way around. It doesn't say much about the quality of the game, just your preferences for one or the other. I like Sony's approach more and I think odyssey is way to weird for me, although botw seems pretty cool, although I still don't like the artstyle.

Exactly, but usually the more biased the person is and think he isn't think he has bias the more he thinks everyone else is biased by not seeing things like him.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Skeeuk said:
I still can't see the appeal in switch what's making ppl buy?

For me it is the first handheld that feels cutting edge and getting the big games.  I like the Vita, but it felt secondary to Sony compared to the home PlayStation consoles.  This is the big Zelda and Mario on the go and they look great.  It is also quite easy to switch control options or go to television mode.  Couple that with the Wii U leaving a gap in time for some of us and ready to play Nintendo again.



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Qwark said:

Also it's a false equivalence to say that a Nintendo fan's positive prejudice amounts to the same as an anti-nintendo fan's negative prejudice.

A Nintendo fan becomes devoted to the company and its games because they've enjoyed a seminal selection of games over years or even decades. It has been earned. 

The anti-nintendo fan generally doesn't play any or many of the companies games, but rather draws on a pre-existing bias. 

Again, I'm not saying everyone has to like every Nintendo game, but I just don't find it credible that an honest fan of many genres of game can't find a good deal to enjoy within Nintendo's catalogue.

And this goes for any developer. Just because I don't own an Xbox or PlayStation doesn't mean that I doubt there'd be titles on them that I'd enjoy! 

Every developer has a certain style for making games. Playstation and Nintendo are very far apart in that regard. Or the new bayonetta and the new god of war, as far as exclusives go. I can imagine someone enjoying let's say resident evil 4 but doesn't like the last of us.

 

Sony's style of games is way more presentation and story driven and tends to blur the line between cinema and game. While Nintendo puts 90% of their focus on gameplay and wave a story etc around that. Nintendo tjeir games will never try to blur lines between games and other media. There are always a few exceptions. But I can see someone enjoying nearly all Nintendo games and disliking near all Sony games or the other way around. It doesn't say much about the quality of the game, just your preferences for one or the other. I like Sony's approach more and I think odyssey is way to weird for me, although botw seems pretty cool, although I still don't like the artstyle.

The thing is, when you talk about Nintendo games, you're talking about games from many different teams & studios. 

Mario / Zelda / Pikmin / F-Zero / Xenobade / Starfox / Metroid Prime / Fire Emblem / Pokemon / Animal Crossing / Smash Bros / Mario Kart / DKC / Splatoon / etc. span a wide variety of genres, art-styles and 'feel' - so there is no single 'style' to be drawn to or put off by...

I simply don't buy that there's some common thread running through all of these games that can be identified and viewed negatively...

I can buy the the scenario that some gamers on other systems take the lazy approach and just assume everything on a Nintendo system is a variation on Mario and that they all look 'kiddie', which simply isn't the case...

If you want story then zelda, xenoblade, the next metroid prime, when it arrives - all have a shot at scratching that itch.

I like some Nintendo games and some aren't for me and I believe that this would be the case for 99% of gamers if they actually tried playing the games rather than immediately deciding that they're not for them...

Last edited by Biggerboat1 - on 16 January 2018

Nymeria said:
Skeeuk said:
I still can't see the appeal in switch what's making ppl buy?

For me it is the first handheld that feels cutting edge and getting the big games.  I like the Vita, but it felt secondary to Sony compared to the home PlayStation consoles.  This is the big Zelda and Mario on the go and they look great.  It is also quite easy to switch control options or go to television mode.  Couple that with the Wii U leaving a gap in time for some of us and ready to play Nintendo again.

I bought a PSP, PS Vita, 2 3ds and one Switch. None of them were for myself. All presents for one person or the other over the last 10 or so years. 

I just feel that when it comes to Nintendo platforms. And how I am as a gamer, they always just seem to be behind the curve. Especially on visuals and presentation. Since MGS on the PS1 my expectation from games has changed. And Nintendo just doesn't cater to the kinda games I want to play.

And no. I will not ever buy a console for any or or two games. And the only game I want to play on any Nintendo console has so far been zelda. 

I don't get why some people have a hard time saying it. or why some people have a hard time accepting it. For me it's simple. Nintendo isn't my cup of tea. but damn do I love zelda. first rpg I ever played. 



DonFerrari said:
Qwark said:

Every developer has a certain style for making games. Playstation and Nintendo are very far apart in that regard. Or the new bayonetta and the new god of war, as far as exclusives go. I can imagine someone enjoying let's say resident evil 4 but doesn't like the last of us.

 

Sony's style of games is way more presentation and story driven and tends to blur the line between cinema and game. While Nintendo puts 90% of their focus on gameplay and wave a story etc around that. Nintendo tjeir games will never try to blur lines between games and other media. There are always a few exceptions. But I can see someone enjoying nearly all Nintendo games and disliking near all Sony games or the other way around. It doesn't say much about the quality of the game, just your preferences for one or the other. I like Sony's approach more and I think odyssey is way to weird for me, although botw seems pretty cool, although I still don't like the artstyle.

Exactly, but usually the more biased the person is and think he isn't think he has bias the more he thinks everyone else is biased by not seeing things like him.

How am I biased when I've openly stated that I'm sure I'd like some of Sony or MS's properties if owned their systems...?

I listen to quite a few gaming podcasts - Giant Beast Cast, IGN UK, Game Scoop, DLC, The Besties - most of the journalists involved have been in gaming for a long time and all are obviously passionate about the industry. Do you know how many of them have an aversion to Nintendo games in general? None.

Some of them are into some Nintendo properties more than others but that's natural & the only objective, unbiased view in my opinion.

That's because they just love gaming and are past the adolescent phase of supporting a games corporation like you do a football team...



DonFerrari said:
Biggerboat1 said:

Like I said, there are certain genres that I don't see selling on Nintendo consoles - sport simulations for instance.

However there are many success stories already on Switch that show there is an appetite for non-nintendo titles. Lots of smaller games yes, but 3rd party nonetheless.

Remember that so far, the bigger budget 3rd party offerings are mostly all older ports, that many Switch owners will already own on another platform. So, they're never going to be sales monsters.

Games don't have to outsell their Nintendo equivalents to be considered successful, that's quite a bizarre definition you're driving at their...

The problem with your argument is that 3rd party support for the last 3 or 4 generations has been extremely weak - so comparing the sales to Nintendo's own games isn't going to prove anything other than they are for the most part, much better games. Just look at review scores of Nintendo games vs 3rd party games released on Nintendo consoles any time in the last 15 - 20 years...

The problem with my argument is that you are only able to accept anti-Nintendo bias and not anti-3rd party Bias.

If you accept that from all developers some may have one or another game that is best than Nintendo offering, but the top sellers on Nintendo console are all Nintendo... and your claim of sports is a little weak since Nintendo can make and sell greatly Mario Tennis, Golfe, Basebal and Soccer.

I didn't say anything about what defines a success... but you said that considering Nintendo have games in all genres it's impossible to not like any of their games without prejudice and being a hater, but for you it's possible that no 3rd party can have a game that Nintendo doesn't have something in that genre that outsell it. Sorry to burst it for you, but Nintendo fans aren't better or worse than any other fan, and if you accept there is anti-Nintendo bias there is just as much pro-Nintendo bias and anti-3rd party Bias.

peachbuggy said:

Pretty sure that was someone just misunderstanding the original rumour and putting their own "spin" on it.

Unfortunately there were someone that discussed with me for like 2h that it made sense for Nintendo to produce 30M and only ship 25M, because parts could become unavailable or they would get a major discount for a higher bulk, no mater if that would mean 1.5B of inventory stopped on the manufacturing line and like 6 months of consumption on a slower month.

Oh yeh i saw that. I thought you was saying  it was what you thought Nintendo would do, when in all probability their manufacturing process would/will be flexible, dependant on demand, whatever the production quota is.



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Biggerboat1 said:
Qwark said:

Every developer has a certain style for making games. Playstation and Nintendo are very far apart in that regard. Or the new bayonetta and the new god of war, as far as exclusives go. I can imagine someone enjoying let's say resident evil 4 but doesn't like the last of us.

 

Sony's style of games is way more presentation and story driven and tends to blur the line between cinema and game. While Nintendo puts 90% of their focus on gameplay and wave a story etc around that. Nintendo tjeir games will never try to blur lines between games and other media. There are always a few exceptions. But I can see someone enjoying nearly all Nintendo games and disliking near all Sony games or the other way around. It doesn't say much about the quality of the game, just your preferences for one or the other. I like Sony's approach more and I think odyssey is way to weird for me, although botw seems pretty cool, although I still don't like the artstyle.

The thing is, when you talk about Nintendo games, you're talking about games from many different teams & studios. 

Mario / Zelda / Pikmin / F-Zero / Xenobade / Starfox / Metroid Prime / Fire Emblem / Pokemon / Animal Crossing / Smash Bros / Mario Kart / DKC / Splatoon / etc. span a wide variety of genres, art-styles and 'feel' - so there is no single 'style' to be drawn to or put off by...

I simply don't buy that there's some common thread running through all of these games that can be identified and viewed negatively...

I can buy the the scenario that some gamers on other systems take the lazy approach and just assume everything on a Nintendo system is a variation on Mario and that they all look 'kiddie', which simply isn't the case...

If you want story then zelda, xenoblade, the next metroid prime, when it arrives - all have a shot at scratching that itch.

I like some Nintendo games and some aren't for me and I believe that this would be the case for 99% of gamers if they actually tried playing the games rather than immediately deciding that they're not for them...

Sony have dozen of Studios, still in several of their games on a lot of different genres you can see a cohesive direction, cinematic approach, that they look after even on several of theirs exclusivity deals.

And you are joking about Zelda being such a great story based game right? And here I was thinking it was an exploration game that you were to feel like you are link and are making your own story.

Biggerboat1 said:
DonFerrari said:

Exactly, but usually the more biased the person is and think he isn't think he has bias the more he thinks everyone else is biased by not seeing things like him.

How am I biased when I've openly stated that I'm sure I'd like some of Sony or MS's properties if owned their systems...?

I listen to quite a few gaming podcasts - Giant Beast Cast, IGN UK, Game Scoop, DLC, The Besties - most of the journalists involved have been in gaming for a long time and all are obviously passionate about the industry. Do you know how many of them have an aversion to Nintendo games in general? None.

Some of them are into some Nintendo properties more than others but that's natural & the only objective, unbiased view in my opinion.

That's because they just love gaming and are past the adolescent phase of supporting a games corporation like you do a football team...

There is no unbiased OPINION, opinions are all personal and biased by standard. At most you can try to portray an unbiased ANALYSIS based on DATA.

Keep judging man, you are totally getting to the point.

Still waiting for you to show how many (if any) genre, Nintendo have a hallmark game that is outsold inside their platform by a multiplat. Because even though Halo have been considered the best FPS in several outings CoD is close by in sales on Xbox, even Gran Turismo hold several times more sales than the other racers on PS1 to 3 and will probably do the same on PS4, but most of the MS and Sony 1st party have another 3rd party game that outsell them inside their own platform because guess what there are dozen of other great studios so one or another will be better than they at some genre or another.

So unless you can prove Nintendo games are the best in ALL GENRES if you can't show they being outsold by multiplats it clearly show the positive Bias for Nintendo that I have no idea you are trying to deny exist.

peachbuggy said:
DonFerrari said:

The problem with my argument is that you are only able to accept anti-Nintendo bias and not anti-3rd party Bias.

If you accept that from all developers some may have one or another game that is best than Nintendo offering, but the top sellers on Nintendo console are all Nintendo... and your claim of sports is a little weak since Nintendo can make and sell greatly Mario Tennis, Golfe, Basebal and Soccer.

I didn't say anything about what defines a success... but you said that considering Nintendo have games in all genres it's impossible to not like any of their games without prejudice and being a hater, but for you it's possible that no 3rd party can have a game that Nintendo doesn't have something in that genre that outsell it. Sorry to burst it for you, but Nintendo fans aren't better or worse than any other fan, and if you accept there is anti-Nintendo bias there is just as much pro-Nintendo bias and anti-3rd party Bias.

Unfortunately there were someone that discussed with me for like 2h that it made sense for Nintendo to produce 30M and only ship 25M, because parts could become unavailable or they would get a major discount for a higher bulk, no mater if that would mean 1.5B of inventory stopped on the manufacturing line and like 6 months of consumption on a slower month.

Oh yeh i saw that. I thought you was saying  it was what you thought Nintendo would do, when in all probability their manufacturing process would/will be flexible, dependant on demand, whatever the production quota is.

Nintendo is a smart company, perhaps they may have contract in place to secure 30M even if they think they can only ship 25M just in case their projections are underestimated, but they wouldn't (unless come to an unforeseen circumstance, which wouldn't be on the yearly plan since it is unforeseen) just produce so much excess.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."