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Forums - Sales Discussion - Global Hardware 23 December 2017

Biggerboat1 said:
Dallinor said:

I thought the whole thing stemmed from trying to understand the appeal of the console.

"but there is gotta be something you like while they are literally doing every damn genre ever."

Are you talking about first party games? because yes is possible not to like the style/approach Nintendo take with their games, no matter how diverse the genres they cover.

It stemmed from pillertriller saying the system offered nothing for non-nintendo game fans - implying that all Nintendo games share very common, divisive traits... 

The only common traits I can see is a gameplay first approach and a tonne of polish (with the odd exception of course).

I'd say the term 'Nintendo games' would cover both first and second party and in doing so would present quite a challenge for those games not to be liked across the board by a true video game fan who isn't concerned with brand loyalty...

Even sticking purely to only this generation's big 2 though, I find it hard to believe that there's a discernible common thread running through odyssey and BOTW, that could be identified and interpreted as a negative...

If I'm missing something obvious though, please enlighten me...

Is it possible to be an open world adventure game fan and dislike botw? I guess... 

Is it possible to be a platfomer fan and dislike odyssey? I can't see how, but let's say yes.

Is it possible to be a fan of both of those games genres and not like both of those games - I have to say no, not without some extreme prejudice. And I think it is prejudice more often than not that keeps many gamers from enjoying Nintendo games rather than the companies catologue being too samey or 1-note...

There is a very common trait that is quite obvious, they are fan of Nintendo... genres that there is a multiplatform and a nintendo entry will usually have more sales for Nintendo...

Let's say is it possible to prefer Splatoon over CoD? Yes it is.

Is it possible to prefer Zelda over GTA? Yes it is.

Is it possible to prefer Mario Striker over Fifa? Yes it is.

Should it be likely that the Nintendo version outsell the Multiplatform version for most genres? Uhnnn is that a sign of prejudice of the userbase?



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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DonFerrari said:
Biggerboat1 said:

It stemmed from pillertriller saying the system offered nothing for non-nintendo game fans - implying that all Nintendo games share very common, divisive traits... 

The only common traits I can see is a gameplay first approach and a tonne of polish (with the odd exception of course).

I'd say the term 'Nintendo games' would cover both first and second party and in doing so would present quite a challenge for those games not to be liked across the board by a true video game fan who isn't concerned with brand loyalty...

Even sticking purely to only this generation's big 2 though, I find it hard to believe that there's a discernible common thread running through odyssey and BOTW, that could be identified and interpreted as a negative...

If I'm missing something obvious though, please enlighten me...

Is it possible to be an open world adventure game fan and dislike botw? I guess... 

Is it possible to be a platfomer fan and dislike odyssey? I can't see how, but let's say yes.

Is it possible to be a fan of both of those games genres and not like both of those games - I have to say no, not without some extreme prejudice. And I think it is prejudice more often than not that keeps many gamers from enjoying Nintendo games rather than the companies catologue being too samey or 1-note...

There is a very common trait that is quite obvious, they are fan of Nintendo... genres that there is a multiplatform and a nintendo entry will usually have more sales for Nintendo...

Let's say is it possible to prefer Splatoon over CoD? Yes it is.

Is it possible to prefer Zelda over GTA? Yes it is.

Is it possible to prefer Mario Striker over Fifa? Yes it is.

Should it be likely that the Nintendo version outsell the Multiplatform version for most genres? Uhnnn is that a sign of prejudice of the userbase?

You're missing my point. I'm not saying that everyone has to like the Nintendo offering over its competition in any given genre, I'm saying that the stance of a true objective gamer not to like Nintendo games across the board is a fallacy. Unless of course he/she is not a fan of the genres themselves.

And it makes sense for Nintendo games to sell better than 3rd parties as the former largely review far better than the latter. (I'm obviously referring to games available on Nintendo systems here) 

Also it's a false equivalence to say that a Nintendo fan's positive prejudice amounts to the same as an anti-nintendo fan's negative prejudice.

A Nintendo fan becomes devoted to the company and its games because they've enjoyed a seminal selection of games over years or even decades. It has been earned. 

The anti-nintendo fan generally doesn't play any or many of the companies games, but rather draws on a pre-existing bias. 

Again, I'm not saying everyone has to like every Nintendo game, but I just don't find it credible that an honest fan of many genres of game can't find a good deal to enjoy within Nintendo's catalogue.

And this goes for any developer. Just because I don't own an Xbox or PlayStation doesn't mean that I doubt there'd be titles on them that I'd enjoy! 



DonFerrari said:
peachbuggy said:

Authenticity and i agree. Producing 5m more than you ship isn't the best idea. The way i saw it was, if true a flexible 25-30m to be produced, depending on demand. This could work if demand isn't massively overestimated.

If Nintendo believe it can sell through over 25M and prepares to produce and ship 30M is something (that they will prepare to produce 30M and will do weekly/monthly verification to produce the right amount to sell all), to say they would produce 30M to ship 25M to keep 5M in warehouse because they may need it is strange (because then they would keep producing on that rate of 2-2.5M/month, would have 5M on inventory and another 2M on shipping channels) and considering the FY will end in March (right?) they would have 7M unsold consoles for the slowest quarter plus what they will normally produce. That would be an accountability crazyness which would inccur in a lot of unedded cost.

But I'm happy Nintendo is confident on crossing 20M on its second year.

Not sure where the "Manufacture 30m/ship 25m" comes from but the whole thing stems from a rumour. Even then, it was stated as between 25m and 30m. So, in that eventuality there wouldn't be a specific number produced and the unsold left in inventory. The exact figure manufactured would be flexible dependant on demand. Least that's how i would read it. However, that's still just a rumour. Going by Kimishima's comments though about wanting to sell 20m+, i would guess upwards of 20m will be produced this year.



DON'T WIN ME CHIBI BUDDY DON'T WIN ME.

ANIMAL CROSSING NEW LEAF FRIEND CODE:- 5129 1175 1029. MESSAGE ME.
ANDY MURRAY:- GRAND SLAM WINNER!

In my opinion the N64 was not just the best console of the 5th gen but, to this day the best console ever created!

Biggerboat1 said:
DonFerrari said:

There is a very common trait that is quite obvious, they are fan of Nintendo... genres that there is a multiplatform and a nintendo entry will usually have more sales for Nintendo...

Let's say is it possible to prefer Splatoon over CoD? Yes it is.

Is it possible to prefer Zelda over GTA? Yes it is.

Is it possible to prefer Mario Striker over Fifa? Yes it is.

Should it be likely that the Nintendo version outsell the Multiplatform version for most genres? Uhnnn is that a sign of prejudice of the userbase?

You're missing my point. I'm not saying that everyone has to like the Nintendo offering over its competition in any given genre, I'm saying that the stance of a true objective gamer not to like Nintendo games across the board is a fallacy. Unless of course he/she is not a fan of the genres themselves.

And it makes sense for Nintendo games to sell better than 3rd parties as the former largely review far better than the latter. (I'm obviously referring to games available on Nintendo systems here) 

Also it's a false equivalence to say that a Nintendo fan's positive prejudice amounts to the same as an anti-nintendo fan's negative prejudice.

A Nintendo fan becomes devoted to the company and its games because they've enjoyed a seminal selection of games over years or even decades. It has been earned. 

The anti-nintendo fan generally doesn't play any or many of the companies games, but rather draws on a pre-existing bias. 

Again, I'm not saying everyone has to like every Nintendo game, but I just don't find it credible that an honest fan of many genres of game can't find a good deal to enjoy within Nintendo's catalogue.

And this goes for any developer. Just because I don't own an Xbox or PlayStation doesn't mean that I doubt there'd be titles on them that I'd enjoy! 

Sorry man, it goes two ways...

Nintendo fans (you can look in this site) are very positive on their anti-3rd parties hate, and calling it deserved... but when it is on people that aren't interested in Nintendo games it must be a hater that hates only for the sake of it because no one couldn't be interested in at least one game from Nintendo.

It is the same coin, on one side you aren't accepting that ALL 3rd parties TOGETHER can't be better and sell better than any game Nintendo have in the genre. Just look at your argument it is basically the same put inverting Nintendo with 3rd parties.

peachbuggy said:
DonFerrari said:

If Nintendo believe it can sell through over 25M and prepares to produce and ship 30M is something (that they will prepare to produce 30M and will do weekly/monthly verification to produce the right amount to sell all), to say they would produce 30M to ship 25M to keep 5M in warehouse because they may need it is strange (because then they would keep producing on that rate of 2-2.5M/month, would have 5M on inventory and another 2M on shipping channels) and considering the FY will end in March (right?) they would have 7M unsold consoles for the slowest quarter plus what they will normally produce. That would be an accountability crazyness which would inccur in a lot of unedded cost.

But I'm happy Nintendo is confident on crossing 20M on its second year.

Not sure where the "Manufacture 30m/ship 25m" comes from but the whole thing stems from a rumour. Even then, it was stated as between 25m and 30m. So, in that eventuality there wouldn't be a specific number produced and the unsold left in inventory. The exact figure manufactured would be flexible dependant on demand. Least that's how i would read it. However, that's still just a rumour. Going by Kimishima's comments though about wanting to sell 20m+, i would guess upwards of 20m will be produced this year.

Nope man, on the thread about the produce 30M ships 25M or produces 25M ships 20M, that was how  the rumor was, that Nintendo would produce 5M more than they intended to ship, which of course is bizarre.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:
Biggerboat1 said:

You're missing my point. I'm not saying that everyone has to like the Nintendo offering over its competition in any given genre, I'm saying that the stance of a true objective gamer not to like Nintendo games across the board is a fallacy. Unless of course he/she is not a fan of the genres themselves.

And it makes sense for Nintendo games to sell better than 3rd parties as the former largely review far better than the latter. (I'm obviously referring to games available on Nintendo systems here) 

Also it's a false equivalence to say that a Nintendo fan's positive prejudice amounts to the same as an anti-nintendo fan's negative prejudice.

A Nintendo fan becomes devoted to the company and its games because they've enjoyed a seminal selection of games over years or even decades. It has been earned. 

The anti-nintendo fan generally doesn't play any or many of the companies games, but rather draws on a pre-existing bias. 

Again, I'm not saying everyone has to like every Nintendo game, but I just don't find it credible that an honest fan of many genres of game can't find a good deal to enjoy within Nintendo's catalogue.

And this goes for any developer. Just because I don't own an Xbox or PlayStation doesn't mean that I doubt there'd be titles on them that I'd enjoy! 

Sorry man, it goes two ways...

Nintendo fans (you can look in this site) are very positive on their anti-3rd parties hate, and calling it deserved... but when it is on people that aren't interested in Nintendo games it must be a hater that hates only for the sake of it because no one couldn't be interested in at least one game from Nintendo.

It is the same coin, on one side you aren't accepting that ALL 3rd parties TOGETHER can't be better and sell better than any game Nintendo have in the genre. Just look at your argument it is basically the same put inverting Nintendo with 3rd parties.

I don't see 3rd party hate from Nintendo fans for genuinely good games...

Look at sales of Steamworld Dig 2 or the recent Super Meat Boy sales almost matching it's 360 launch...

The 3 big platform will undoubtedly attract different demographics - I don't see sports games ever selling as well on Switch for instance.

But having leanings towards certain genres is completely different from having a 3rd party bias.

All told, so far on the Switch, 3rd party games have been selling well, especially considering the bigger games are generally ports.

So, no, it's not the same coin.

In fact, point me to a single Nintendo fan that doesn't want strong 3rd party support?



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Skeeuk said:
I still can't see the appeal in switch what's making ppl buy?

I noticed no matter how good the games are I just can’t bring myself to pick one up, feel like it’s missing something. Could be the silly less established online of the Switch, or maybe I’m just burned out after 25 years of Mario and Zelda over and over again......

Great overall system regardless of my opinion.



Isn´t it amazing, by this point, that the 3ds is still selling well ?



Biggerboat1 said:
DonFerrari said:

Sorry man, it goes two ways...

Nintendo fans (you can look in this site) are very positive on their anti-3rd parties hate, and calling it deserved... but when it is on people that aren't interested in Nintendo games it must be a hater that hates only for the sake of it because no one couldn't be interested in at least one game from Nintendo.

It is the same coin, on one side you aren't accepting that ALL 3rd parties TOGETHER can't be better and sell better than any game Nintendo have in the genre. Just look at your argument it is basically the same put inverting Nintendo with 3rd parties.

I don't see 3rd party hate from Nintendo fans for genuinely good games...

Look at sales of Steamworld Dig 2 or the recent Super Meat Boy sales almost matching it's 360 launch...

The 3 big platform will undoubtedly attract different demographics - I don't see sports games ever selling as well on Switch for instance.

But having leanings towards certain genres is completely different from having a 3rd party bias.

All told, so far on the Switch, 3rd party games have been selling well, especially considering the bigger games are generally ports.

So, no, it's not the same coin.

In fact, point me to a single Nintendo fan that doesn't want strong 3rd party support?

Yes sure... "genuinely good games" is that the cop out? A game sells 20M on other platforms but almost nothing in a Nintendo platform, it mus be because it isn't genuinely good, like Nintendo fans are the ones to decide what is genuinely good and the rest buy any garbage.

I'll point you a complete VGC community that complains about most if not all 3rd party games, and if one game doesn't get ported (one he wouldn't buy anyway) the company deserves to go broke for their lack of love and support for Nintendo.

But still waiting for you to point me a genre where Nintendo have a hallmark game that is outsold by a 3rd party multiplatform game in consonance with what happens on other platforms where in fact most of the top sellers are 3rd parties...



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:
Biggerboat1 said:

I don't see 3rd party hate from Nintendo fans for genuinely good games...

Look at sales of Steamworld Dig 2 or the recent Super Meat Boy sales almost matching it's 360 launch...

The 3 big platform will undoubtedly attract different demographics - I don't see sports games ever selling as well on Switch for instance.

But having leanings towards certain genres is completely different from having a 3rd party bias.

All told, so far on the Switch, 3rd party games have been selling well, especially considering the bigger games are generally ports.

So, no, it's not the same coin.

In fact, point me to a single Nintendo fan that doesn't want strong 3rd party support?

Yes sure... "genuinely good games" is that the cop out? A game sells 20M on other platforms but almost nothing in a Nintendo platform, it mus be because it isn't genuinely good, like Nintendo fans are the ones to decide what is genuinely good and the rest buy any garbage.

I'll point you a complete VGC community that complains about most if not all 3rd party games, and if one game doesn't get ported (one he wouldn't buy anyway) the company deserves to go broke for their lack of love and support for Nintendo.

But still waiting for you to point me a genre where Nintendo have a hallmark game that is outsold by a 3rd party multiplatform game in consonance with what happens on other platforms where in fact most of the top sellers are 3rd parties...

Like I said, there are certain genres that I don't see selling on Nintendo consoles - sport simulations for instance.

However there are many success stories already on Switch that show there is an appetite for non-nintendo titles. Lots of smaller games yes, but 3rd party nonetheless.

Remember that so far, the bigger budget 3rd party offerings are mostly all older ports, that many Switch owners will already own on another platform. So, they're never going to be sales monsters.

Games don't have to outsell their Nintendo equivalents to be considered successful, that's quite a bizarre definition you're driving at their...

The problem with your argument is that 3rd party support for the last 3 or 4 generations has been extremely weak - so comparing the sales to Nintendo's own games isn't going to prove anything other than they are for the most part, much better games. Just look at review scores of Nintendo games vs 3rd party games released on Nintendo consoles any time in the last 15 - 20 years...



DonFerrari said:
Biggerboat1 said:

You're missing my point. I'm not saying that everyone has to like the Nintendo offering over its competition in any given genre, I'm saying that the stance of a true objective gamer not to like Nintendo games across the board is a fallacy. Unless of course he/she is not a fan of the genres themselves.

And it makes sense for Nintendo games to sell better than 3rd parties as the former largely review far better than the latter. (I'm obviously referring to games available on Nintendo systems here) 

Also it's a false equivalence to say that a Nintendo fan's positive prejudice amounts to the same as an anti-nintendo fan's negative prejudice.

A Nintendo fan becomes devoted to the company and its games because they've enjoyed a seminal selection of games over years or even decades. It has been earned. 

The anti-nintendo fan generally doesn't play any or many of the companies games, but rather draws on a pre-existing bias. 

Again, I'm not saying everyone has to like every Nintendo game, but I just don't find it credible that an honest fan of many genres of game can't find a good deal to enjoy within Nintendo's catalogue.

And this goes for any developer. Just because I don't own an Xbox or PlayStation doesn't mean that I doubt there'd be titles on them that I'd enjoy! 

Sorry man, it goes two ways...

Nintendo fans (you can look in this site) are very positive on their anti-3rd parties hate, and calling it deserved... but when it is on people that aren't interested in Nintendo games it must be a hater that hates only for the sake of it because no one couldn't be interested in at least one game from Nintendo.

It is the same coin, on one side you aren't accepting that ALL 3rd parties TOGETHER can't be better and sell better than any game Nintendo have in the genre. Just look at your argument it is basically the same put inverting Nintendo with 3rd parties.

peachbuggy said:

Not sure where the "Manufacture 30m/ship 25m" comes from but the whole thing stems from a rumour. Even then, it was stated as between 25m and 30m. So, in that eventuality there wouldn't be a specific number produced and the unsold left in inventory. The exact figure manufactured would be flexible dependant on demand. Least that's how i would read it. However, that's still just a rumour. Going by Kimishima's comments though about wanting to sell 20m+, i would guess upwards of 20m will be produced this year.

Nope man, on the thread about the produce 30M ships 25M or produces 25M ships 20M, that was how  the rumor was, that Nintendo would produce 5M more than they intended to ship, which of course is bizarre.

Pretty sure that was someone just misunderstanding the original rumour and putting their own "spin" on it.



DON'T WIN ME CHIBI BUDDY DON'T WIN ME.

ANIMAL CROSSING NEW LEAF FRIEND CODE:- 5129 1175 1029. MESSAGE ME.
ANDY MURRAY:- GRAND SLAM WINNER!

In my opinion the N64 was not just the best console of the 5th gen but, to this day the best console ever created!