Quantcast
Kratos is misunderstood

Forums - Sony Discussion - Kratos is misunderstood

Tagged games:

Have you played the portable games?

No 14 50.00%
 
Yes 14 50.00%
 
Total:28
Hynad said:
SegataSanshiro said:
He's vastly overrated and one of the worst characters in gaming. Not to mention he's an idiot.Yeah tricked like the idiot he is to kill his family. He's so broken up about it he fucks some whores. Asura has the same concept but executed much better in the story. I'm sorry but the GoW games I played, GoW 2, Chains of Olympus and Ascension are some of the shittiest action games I've ever played. There is no way Kratos is underrated. Is Mario underrated or Master Chief? Only one of the most popular around. Bullshit. He's an asshole all the way through. It's no wonder Kratos sucks as a character. David Jaffe directed GoW. Jaffe thinks what is cool at 13 years old is edgy and mature. (just look at the garbage that is Drawn to Death.)

Per your post history, it's like you think everything is shit.

Especially if it's Sony related.

That's because Sony killed the Saturn and Segata Sanshiro.



Around the Network

Yes he is.
He was a bad man in the end, he did horrible things to anyone he could if that meant moving close to his goal, until he met Pandora during 3, that started his change, which is clear now years after that with the new game.
But even before that, he wasn't one dimensional at all, he was completely objective to the achievement to his goal, but he wasn't one dimensional in the slightest.



twintail said:

I think you guys have this wrong. The gods dont back out of any promise they make. 

What Athena says to him at the beginning of GoW 1 that if he kills Ares then 'his past will be forgiven'. Obviously to Kratos, and to the gamer, we assume it to be what Kratos wants. But as we learn its his, and our own, misconception.  She never said that she would take away the memories that haunt him. And in the end she says his past is forgiven just as she promised. 

I don't agree that the Gods kept their promises. They tricked Kratos in believing he would be able to forget what he did, but in the end they just said "hey, don't worry, we forgive you". The Greek Gods had a clear habit of promising stuff to people and them give something different to mess up with them. One example is Tithonus. He was granted a wish and chose to be immortal. It was conceded. However, since he forgot to include eternal youth, he got trapped in a decaying body forever. This is the kind of "prank" the Greek Gods liked to play on humans and I see Kratos as another victim of this dark sense of humor. Even though, Kratos decided to end his life (and suffering) instead of seeking revenge. Once again, the Gods denied him that and made him a God pretty much against his wishes. So it's not surprising that he was a douche GoW at the second game, the Gods simply don't want to leave him alone.

But this is important nonetheless since it highlights the fundamental flaw of Kratos: his inability to accept responsibility for this actions and therefore be unable to forgive himself what he did to his family. He can hide behind Ares tricking him, but he still killed his wife and daughter with his own hands. He wants the Gods to erase these memories (nightmares) because he cant accept what he did. He wants to kill himself because maybe that will end everything. But it doesn't. It wont. Its why family becomes a key theme in GoW3, especially with Pandora and Zeus mocking him etc. Kratos is so hellbent on getting revenge, and blaming others etc that he doesnt see who is really at fault: himself. And the final story arc of GoW3 is about this realisation. 

But yes, it's really his fault. That's why I don't consider him a hero and that's also why it makes sense when he does barbaric stuff to people for no reason. He is really just like his father, a massive egocentric maniac.

I don't see him as victim when he wants to erase his memories. He was simply being selfish. But the Gods really enjoyed to just pour salt in the wound.

Likewise its important to note that Kratos view of the Gods only becomes one of pessimism as the games go on. Where he was once asking Ares for his help, he now feels betrayed and despises what the Gods represent. Not getting what he wanted in GoW is a defining point in him becoming unhinged... its also a defining point in the Gods ultimately sealing their own fate by thinking that can control a man who has suffered like he has suffered by making him a God. 

I think the breaking point was they stopping his suicide. It's like, they won't give him what he want and will also deny him dying to get some peace. But even in that case, he seemed to be stable as the new GoW. While his pro-Sparta actions where creating tensions with Athena, he wasn't really attacking the Gods.

When Zeus betrays and kills him, that's the point he gets pissed of beyond belief and decides do kill Zeus and to not let anyone stop him.

Also I disagree with the idea that he just wants all the gods dead. He just wants Zeus dead. The others just happen to stand in his way. Likewise, Kratos comes to the realisation that power cannot be placed in the hands of the Gods because he knows first hand that it just creates a cycle of control, but also indirectly a cycle of not assuming responsibility  for your own actions because man will just worship Gods whenever they need help (this is more metaphorical) . Kratos forgiving himself and reaching this point of accepting what he had down is the ultimate stand against the Gods. He doesnt need them. And he never did.  And this is how they lose their power and influence. 

I think you're correct. Indeed, he says multiple times that his issue is with Zeus. But, since Zeus IS Olympus, the rest of the Gods end up having to defend him. So it's more like an indirect consequence.

I don't know if they really wanted to suggest something more deep, like man having to effectively kill his own Gods to fully reach the comprehension that he is the master of his own destiny. This includes the freedom to make your own choices, but also results in the burden of being responsible for your own sins.

I think they went with a direction where he finally forgives himself in GoW 4.

 



JustThatGamer said:
Always liked Kratos, it's easy to see why people who've only played 2 and/or 3 think he's a shallow one-dimensional character but once you've played them all (forget GoW: Ascension) you'll understand his tragic backstory and see that his anger and relentless quest for vengeance is well justified.

Still, I'm glad that they've put an end to using vengeance & hatred as his motivation in the upcoming game, looking forward to seeing how he's developed since the end of GoW3.

On point!

Aeolus451 said: 
Kratos is not misunderstood. He's just a poorly written character.

Looks like someone didn't read the OP, any of the synopsis given by series veterans here and took the story at face value.

twintail said:
GOWTLOZ said: 

Kratos is then sent on a quest to kill Ares who plots to overthrow Olympus and the Gods promise to forgive him for his sins which was perpetuated by Ares and not his fault. He does as told but then they back out of it saying that he is forgiven for his sins but has to live with their memories.

 

torok said:  Either way, he still followed the Gods, doing their deeds with the promise they would end his nightmares. Well, they order him to stop Ares so he does it and also gets a sweet revenge. Then the Gods act as even bigger douches and say "screw you, we won't remove your nightmares". 

I think you guys have this wrong. The gods dont back out of any promise they make. 

What Athena says to him at the beginning of GoW 1 that if he kills Ares then 'his past will be forgiven'. Obviously to Kratos, and to the gamer, we assume it to be what Kratos wants. But as we learn its his, and our own, misconception.  She never said that she would take away the memories that haunt him. And in the end she says his past is forgiven just as she promised. 

But this is important nonetheless since it highlights the fundamental flaw of Kratos: his inability to accept responsibility for this actions and therefore be unable to forgive himself what he did to his family. He can hide behind Ares tricking him, but he still killed his wife and daughter with his own hands. He wants the Gods to erase these memories (nightmares) because he cant accept what he did. He wants to kill himself because maybe that will end everything. But it doesn't. It wont. Its why family becomes a key theme in GoW3, especially with Pandora and Zeus mocking him etc. Kratos is so hellbent on getting revenge, and blaming others etc that he doesnt see who is really at fault: himself. And the final story arc of GoW3 is about this realisation. 

Likewise its important to note that Kratos view of the Gods only becomes one of pessimism as the games go on. Where he was once asking Ares for his help, he now feels betrayed and despises what the Gods represent. Not getting what he wanted in GoW is a defining point in him becoming unhinged... its also a defining point in the Gods ultimately sealing their own fate by thinking that can control a man who has suffered like he has suffered by making him a God. 

Also I disagree with the idea that he just wants all the gods dead. He just wants Zeus dead. The others just happen to stand in his way. Likewise, Kratos comes to the realisation that power cannot be placed in the hands of the Gods because he knows first hand that it just creates a cycle of control, but also indirectly a cycle of not assuming responsibility  for your own actions because man will just worship Gods whenever they need help (this is more metaphorical) . Kratos forgiving himself and reaching this point of accepting what he had down is the ultimate stand against the Gods. He doesnt need them. And he never did.  And this is how they lose their power and influence. 

He totally takes responsibility for his actions but he also knows that he isn't the only one responsible for it. I agree with the rest. Its funny how people completely overlook the fact that he didn't intend to kill Zeus till Zeus betrayed and killed him in GOW 2, he killed Ares only because the Gods asked him to and he killed the other Olympian Gods only because they stood between him and Zeus, he didn't really have any beef with them per se. He killed Hercules because Hercules wanted to prove himself to Zeus by killing him, he killed Erinys because she threatened to kill him, Thanatos because he kidnapped his brother and killed him, Persephone because she wanted to destroy the world, Cronos because he wanted to kill him and Gaia because she betrayed him. You see a running theme here, Kratos doesn't kill Gods and Titans just because they exist like many portray him to be, he always has a reason and they give him a reason to do so.

hunter_alien said:
Kratos is one of the best and most captivating gaming anti-heores that was ever made. That why there are so many people who hate it and so many who absolutly adore him. He represents everything that is bad in humans yet in the same time you can constantly see what power and possibilities lie behind it, and you are never surprised when he manages to push things even more over the top than they are.

And the next game simply seems like the same concept but backed up by an even more refined character development. Love it or hate it there is a reason why he managed to become one of the most icoic gaming characters in 15 years.

I agree. Kratos has a cool origin, iconic design, cool weapons and unique backstory. He is pretty much PlayStation's defining character and even those who never played GOW at all know his name. That despite being an R rated anti hero is quite an accomplishment.



I never even thought about something like that. To me God of War is just a fun action game, I really don't care too much about the story. All I can say is, there is no excuse for murder. And Kratos murdered quite a lot of people, including many many innocents. So yeah, at the end of the day he's still an asshole. An asshole with reasons maybe, but still an asshole. Then again, it's the player who makes Kratos do all those things, right? We always have the choice to just quit a game. But we still decide to move on and slay monsters and people like there's no tomorrow.

But whatever, I really don't care too much. ^^

Last edited by OdinHades - on 17 January 2018

Official member of VGC's Nintendo family, approved by the one and only RolStoppable. I feel honored.

Around the Network
OdinHades said:

But whatever, I really don't care too much. ^^

This sounds like a spoiler for Undertale tbqh



twintail said:
OdinHades said:

But whatever, I really don't care too much. ^^

This sounds like a spoiler for some game tbqh

You got a point, I removed it.



Official member of VGC's Nintendo family, approved by the one and only RolStoppable. I feel honored.

torok said:
twintail said:

I think you guys have this wrong. The gods dont back out of any promise they make. 

What Athena says to him at the beginning of GoW 1 that if he kills Ares then 'his past will be forgiven'. Obviously to Kratos, and to the gamer, we assume it to be what Kratos wants. But as we learn its his, and our own, misconception.  She never said that she would take away the memories that haunt him. And in the end she says his past is forgiven just as she promised. 

I don't agree that the Gods kept their promises. They tricked Kratos in believing he would be able to forget what he did, but in the end they just said "hey, don't worry, we forgive you". The Greek Gods had a clear habit of promising stuff to people and them give something different to mess up with them. One example is Tithonus. He was granted a wish and chose to be immortal. It was conceded. However, since he forgot to include eternal youth, he got trapped in a decaying body forever. This is the kind of "prank" the Greek Gods liked to play on humans and I see Kratos as another victim of this dark sense of humor. Even though, Kratos decided to end his life (and suffering) instead of seeking revenge. Once again, the Gods denied him that and made him a God pretty much against his wishes. So it's not surprising that he was a douche GoW at the second game, the Gods simply don't want to leave him alone.

But this is important nonetheless since it highlights the fundamental flaw of Kratos: his inability to accept responsibility for this actions and therefore be unable to forgive himself what he did to his family. He can hide behind Ares tricking him, but he still killed his wife and daughter with his own hands. He wants the Gods to erase these memories (nightmares) because he cant accept what he did. He wants to kill himself because maybe that will end everything. But it doesn't. It wont. Its why family becomes a key theme in GoW3, especially with Pandora and Zeus mocking him etc. Kratos is so hellbent on getting revenge, and blaming others etc that he doesnt see who is really at fault: himself. And the final story arc of GoW3 is about this realisation. 

But yes, it's really his fault. That's why I don't consider him a hero and that's also why it makes sense when he does barbaric stuff to people for no reason. He is really just like his father, a massive egocentric maniac.

I don't see him as victim when he wants to erase his memories. He was simply being selfish. But the Gods really enjoyed to just pour salt in the wound.

Likewise its important to note that Kratos view of the Gods only becomes one of pessimism as the games go on. Where he was once asking Ares for his help, he now feels betrayed and despises what the Gods represent. Not getting what he wanted in GoW is a defining point in him becoming unhinged... its also a defining point in the Gods ultimately sealing their own fate by thinking that can control a man who has suffered like he has suffered by making him a God. 

I think the breaking point was they stopping his suicide. It's like, they won't give him what he want and will also deny him dying to get some peace. But even in that case, he seemed to be stable as the new GoW. While his pro-Sparta actions where creating tensions with Athena, he wasn't really attacking the Gods.

When Zeus betrays and kills him, that's the point he gets pissed of beyond belief and decides do kill Zeus and to not let anyone stop him.

Also I disagree with the idea that he just wants all the gods dead. He just wants Zeus dead. The others just happen to stand in his way. Likewise, Kratos comes to the realisation that power cannot be placed in the hands of the Gods because he knows first hand that it just creates a cycle of control, but also indirectly a cycle of not assuming responsibility  for your own actions because man will just worship Gods whenever they need help (this is more metaphorical) . Kratos forgiving himself and reaching this point of accepting what he had down is the ultimate stand against the Gods. He doesnt need them. And he never did.  And this is how they lose their power and influence. 

I think you're correct. Indeed, he says multiple times that his issue is with Zeus. But, since Zeus IS Olympus, the rest of the Gods end up having to defend him. So it's more like an indirect consequence.

I don't know if they really wanted to suggest something more deep, like man having to effectively kill his own Gods to fully reach the comprehension that he is the master of his own destiny. This includes the freedom to make your own choices, but also results in the burden of being responsible for your own sins.

I think they went with a direction where he finally forgives himself in GoW 4.

 

1) You are totally right. Im not trying to say that they were clear and fulfilled their end from the very beginning this deal was struck. Just that Athenas words from the beginning of GoW1 are exactly what she gives Kratos at the end.

2) Totally, erasing his memories was just a selfish at, and the easy way out.

3) I think the suicide scene is definitely a good one. Now just the breaking point for him as you say. Its about man vs god. determinism vs fatalism.

4) Yeah I dont want to suppose its that deep. But I think it ties in nicely into not having to rely on a greater power. And kratos embodies that for humanity (thematically )

 

Sorry for the late reply but thanks for the discussion. Always good to chat about a series like GoW where ppl just assume it has nothing going for it in terms of narrative themes or characterisation.



I think he's an excellent character for the medium. Take him out of the medium, and you'll see the flaws more clearly. The story is probably only good for a single movie in its current state, since you can pick out character growth in a relatively small bunch of scenes across many of the games (Chains of Olympus had you pushing your the memory of your dead son away from you, didn't it? I always liked that part)

Kratos is so focused on revenge across so many games that it can cause fatigue. I personally didn't care for Ascension's story though its gameplay kept my attention. With the new GoW, I think things are reversed. The gameplay doesn't look as interesting as the story. I don't know if that's a good thing or not since it's too early to tell. I'm hopeful though.



SegataSanshiro said:
He's vastly overrated and one of the worst characters in gaming. Not to mention he's an idiot.Yeah tricked like the idiot he is to kill his family. He's so broken up about it he fucks some whores. Asura has the same concept but executed much better in the story. I'm sorry but the GoW games I played, GoW 2, Chains of Olympus and Ascension are some of the shittiest action games I've ever played. There is no way Kratos is underrated. Is Mario underrated or Master Chief? Only one of the most popular around. Bullshit. He's an asshole all the way through. It's no wonder Kratos sucks as a character. David Jaffe directed GoW. Jaffe thinks what is cool at 13 years old is edgy and mature. (just look at the garbage that is Drawn to Death.)

I've always had my eye on Asura but have never gotten around to it. I was reading up on it and the developers had something interesting to say about how they developed the story: 

"...When we came up with this backwards approach to the development process, first we thought of our focus on wrath, then focused on the story, so we built the story first. Who wrote the story? CyberConnect 2 did, as a group. It was a group effort throughout the dev team, but when we had the story, we passed that on to an actual script writer."

I assume this focus was what made for better execution.