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The success of the 3DS has vindicated Gunpei Yokoi and the Virtual Boy

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RolStoppable said:
Johnw1104 said:

...Flamebait? All he said was he appreciates the 3D of the 3DS (which I did as well whenever a game opted to actually take advantage of it) and that it vindicates Gunpei's original vision for the Virtual Boy. That's an opinion, not flamebait lol

The 3DS wasn't some outrageous success like the DS, but in an era when people wondered if handheld gaming would persist at all it still managed to sell quite well, especially when compared with its only contemporary competition. With the explosion of the mobile market this was easily the most difficult environment Nintendo ever released a handheld into, so to still approach Gameboy Advanced numbers (~70 million to ~80 million) is no small feat, and it certainly does not belong in the same breath as the undeniable sales failure that was the Wii U.

I would not say that any of this vindicates the "Virtual Boy" that was actually released, as that was a flawed product from the start. It does, to some extent, show that Gunpei's original vision for the Virtual Boy was quite impressive, and if there's a criticism I have to lob at him it's that he ought to have recognized earlier in development that such a vision would be too expensive to achieve with the technology of the time. "Vindication" is a strong word, then, but one can certainly better understand his thinking with the benefit of retrospect.

Yes, flamebait. The OP is basically presenting an argument that is as credible as Donald Trump's claim that global warming doesn't really exist and is an invention of China.

Any success that can be attributed to the 3DS is in spite of 3D. There's the early price cut that resulted in Nintendo posting their first fiscal year loss since they had entered the video game business. There's the 2DS which was not planned and only exists because the market's rejection of 3D was so strong that Nintendo became convinced that such a desperate move is necessary to stabilize the platform. There's the New 2DS XL which gave consumers finally a fair choice between 3DS and 2DS, because the initial 2DS did not have a clamshell design; and what do we see consumers choosing? They buy the New 2DS XL in higher numbers than the 3DS models now. 

And finally, there's Switch. If 3D was a success like the OP wants you to believe, then why is it non-existent in Switch? If 3D was a selling point, then it should have become standard and Switch should be floundering for not having it; instead Switch flies off the shelves, showing how unnecessary and unwanted 3D was. Switch also casts major doubt on the belief that mobile was killing handheld gaming. I never believed it because touchscreen inputs are so limited that they in turn greatly limit the variety of games. But those who did believe it and probably still believe it... they should really ask themselves if it isn't more probable that self-inflicted damage by Nintendo was a much bigger cause of the decline from DS to 3DS.

As for the Virtual Boy, the story is that Yokoi was opposed to releasing it in the state that it was. I've touched on this in my first post in this thread.

So the OP is a flamebait because you were the only one with the urge to flame it?



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

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AlfredoTurkey said:
Mandalore76 said:

Without that, we wouldn't have immersive VR today.

Yeah.. that only 2% of PS4 owners even own....

More like 3 to 4% already... for a 400 USD add-on, that is good actually.

zorg1000 said:
GhaudePhaede010 said:

The real question here is, what in the world makes you think it would have sold more without the 3D? No iterative update Nintendo has ever released sold better than its predecessor. I do not think 3DS would have sold much better without 3D. It was not as good a product as DS with or without 3D. 

I didnt say it would.

He said, "anyone that thinks that the 3DS sold 70+ millions "in spite" of its 3D has no idea what  he's talking about."

 

To me that implies that 3D was a major selling point of 3DS and sales would have been much lower without it hence why i asked him that question.

Nope... when someone say "in spite off" it means that even though that was a problem and a road block it managed to go over it. Like Brazil is growing in spite of our politicians.

mountaindewslave said:
killeryoshis said:
Who wrote this? AThe 3DS did so badly Nintendo had to take losses so it wouldn't fail. The 3DS is a disappointment sales wise. It should be at 100+ million. Nintendo focusing so hard on 3D is what caused such a big drop. If anything it shows that 3D will never be a big seller. It shows that even the mighty DS could not make it successful. Hopefully the idea stays in a radioactive dump where it belongs.

you're kind of doing some leaps in logic and into puddles of unknown. THe majority of people didn't buy the 3DS for it's 3D abilities, that was just a quirky bonus. in the end 80 million is extremely solid, particularly when you look at the fact that its competition will probably not end up with much more than 15 million.

I just think the reality is if ANYTHING the 3DS was held back by its technology. In an age of smartphones and tablets a lot of gamers aren't going to be thrilled by games that are often sometimes like 240p, even if the screens are small enough to make things look better. 

and that's where the Switch comes in perfectly- it's a more appropriate group of specs for today. In the end though in no time Nintendo was making a lot off of 3DS systems and the system did well for its worth.  comparing to the DS as some sort of argument for failure is just silly though, the DS is akin to the PS2 as far as perfect storms are considered. PS2 came at the perfect time with a DVD player, and arguably a huge amount of its success was the fact that it included that in a period of transitioning media. the DS came at a period where smartphones were still in an early stage AND I believe it offered an internet browser with wifi, essentially an early mini tablet of sorts. Again, a perfect storm as far as timing

3DS put up very solid numbers given it's limited graphics and whatnot. I mean the fact that 80 million people potentially bought a handheld at 240p up until 2018 suggests that its a great handheld as far as convenience, game library, etc.

 

as for the thread quote- kind of a strange thing considering the 3DS and Virtual Boy are nothing alike and 3D is far from why the 3DS was successful. 

Sorry to burst your bubble, but PS2 success have almost nothing to do with being a DVD player.

Mandalore76 said:
AlfredoTurkey said:

Yeah.. that only 2% of PS4 owners even own....

You do realize that there are more VR platforms out there besides just PSVR?

And even so PSVR have about 50% marketshare against them (Oculus, Vive, etc);

Only those google cardboards and Samsung cellphone VR have more presence... so in gaming VR PSVR is quite dominating.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Wyrdness said:
Not really as the VB is more comparable to the virtual reality devices we see today which seem to have gone quiet rather than the 3DS.

Yeah, Mr. Yokoi did not invent 3D, he just tried to help Nintendo put it in console devices. The Virtual Boy also failed because they tried to market it as VR like we are seeing today when really it wasn't and the black and red visuals proved a detrimental. 

The 3DS while successful in doing the objective the Virtual Boy failed at, it also went about it in a completely different way so the Virtual Boy isn't in anyway vindicated. 



Mandalore76 said:

There are those who will argue that "The 3D is a gimmick", "the majority of 3D owners play with the slider turned off", and "the existence of the 2DS is proof that the 3DS is a gimmick/failure".  But, I disagree with this.  If that were the case, the 3DS sku would have disappeared the same way the Xbox One Kinect sku disappeared when the Kinect was removed from being mandatory.  

And I disagree with this comparison. Microsoft's primary reason for making Kinect optional early on was because it drove up the cost of the system to $100 more than it's close competitor (and $100 more than the standard new console price), that was not only more powerful than XBO, but pre order numbers were running circles around Xbox One, partially due to the price difference (same reason many PS2 owners jumped ship to X360 last generation), and of course also the DRM fiasco.
Furthermore, Xbox One wasn't named Kinectbox One. So they could remove it without affecting the branding of the system. If you remove the 3D feature from 3DS, I don't imagine they would keep the name. Although I don't think this would be a huge problem. Just a sidenote.

3DS never really had a serious competitor, so Nintendo were less pressured to make drastic changes like Microsoft. They were able to lower the price of the system early on without making the feature optional. Microsoft were not as fortunate.

I don't know the percentage of 3D use, but based on polls it appears quite common that people keep it off.
And in terms of sales, New 2DS appears to be selling a lot better than New 3DS weekly in Japan.

Last week 2DSLL sold 47,230 in Japan. While 3DSLL sold 15,158 units.
http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=234101&page=1

That's more than a 3:1 ratio. And the week before that it was a 2:1 ratio.
But there are apparently enough people that enjoy the 3D feature that Nintendo can comfortably keep it around. Kinect may or may not have been less popular. We'll never know for sure thanks to Microsoft keeping their numbers a secret. But they did discontinue making them, and that would suggest it wasn't popular enough compared to what it cost them to keep making them and supporting it with games. Because making games that support Kinect features is a more complicated and costly endeavor than just having a simple 3D feature for 3DS games.

The 2DS sells to both kids and those who aren't interested in 3D

And to people who don't mind a much more clumsy unfoldable version, when it comes to the standard 2DS model.
That monstrosity is not really an alternative for those who enjoy the form factor of 3DS, but don't care for the 3D feature.
They did however recently make a New 2DS, and that one works fine as an alternative. Which may explain why it appears to be selling a lot better than the 3DS. If it was available back when I bought my 3DS XL, I would have chosen New 2DS instead and saved $50.

Last edited by Hiku - on 15 January 2018

DonFerrari said:

So the OP is a flamebait because you were the only one with the urge to flame it?

The OP is exactly what gets me into trouble so frequently. Pointing out how unsubstantiated and stupid arguments are is what has gotten me into trouble repeatedly because the mod team doesn't care about the context.

Many of the points I and others listed were ignored and that tells me that the OP realizes that there is no counter-argument to be made.

GhaudePhaede010 said:
zorg1000 said:

So do you believe it would have sold significantly less if it didnt have 3D?

The real question here is, what in the world makes you think it would have sold more without the 3D? No iterative update Nintendo has ever released sold better than its predecessor. I do not think 3DS would have sold much better without 3D. It was not as good a product as DS with or without 3D. 

The GBA was an iterative update and sold better than its predecessor. If you take the context into account that the GBA had less than half the lifespan of the GB/GBC, yet sold 2/3 of the GB/GBC's lifetime number, it's clear that the GBA sold much faster and therefore better. Did you know that the GBA holds the record for fastest selling video game system in the USA through 10 months? Its 5.8m are a full million ahead of the second placed Switch which in turn is 0.7m ahead of third place.

Similarly, if we apply more context to your question of 3DS with or without 3D, it's absolutely clear that without 3D Nintendo would have been more profitable. Additionally, a sub-$200 launch price for a "3DS" without 3D would have made Nintendo's new handheld more appealing right from the start; same processing power and better battery life. Healthier momentum and a better image, so more sales for sure. It might have not beaten the DS, but that's not the question here; it's about whether or not it would beat the 3DS and that's a clear yes.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV (360+PS3) would outsell SSBB. I was wrong.

A Biased Review Reloaded / Open Your Eyes / Switch Gamers Club

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RolStoppable said:
DonFerrari said:

So the OP is a flamebait because you were the only one with the urge to flame it?

The OP is exactly what gets me into trouble so frequently. Pointing out how unsubstantiated and stupid arguments are is what has gotten me into trouble repeatedly because the mod team doesn't care about the context.

Many of the points I and others listed were ignored and that tells me that the OP realizes that there is no counter-argument to be made.

GhaudePhaede010 said:

The real question here is, what in the world makes you think it would have sold more without the 3D? No iterative update Nintendo has ever released sold better than its predecessor. I do not think 3DS would have sold much better without 3D. It was not as good a product as DS with or without 3D. 

The GBA was an iterative update and sold better than its predecessor. If you take the context into account that the GBA had less than half the lifespan of the GB/GBC, yet sold 2/3 of the GB/GBC's lifetime number, it's clear that the GBA sold much faster and therefore better. Did you know that the GBA holds the record for fastest selling video game system in the USA through 10 months? Its 5.8m are a full million ahead of the second placed Switch which in turn is 0.7m ahead of third place.

Similarly, if we apply more context to your question of 3DS with or without 3D, it's absolutely clear that without 3D Nintendo would have been more profitable. Additionally, a sub-$200 launch price for a "3DS" without 3D would have made Nintendo's new handheld more appealing right from the start; same processing power and better battery life. Healthier momentum and a better image, so more sales for sure. It might have not beaten the DS, but that's not the question here; it's about whether or not it would beat the 3DS and that's a clear yes.

but since no one else flamed the thread how is it a flamebait?



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

NoirSon said:
Wyrdness said:
Not really as the VB is more comparable to the virtual reality devices we see today which seem to have gone quiet rather than the 3DS.

Yeah, Mr. Yokoi did not invent 3D, he just tried to help Nintendo put it in console devices. The Virtual Boy also failed because they tried to market it as VR like we are seeing today when really it wasn't and the black and red visuals proved a detrimental. 

The 3DS while successful in doing the objective the Virtual Boy failed at, it also went about it in a completely different way so the Virtual Boy isn't in anyway vindicated. 

The Virtual Boy, among other problems, was miss-named.  The Virtual Boy did not attempt to replicate "Virtual Reality" in the vast majority of its games, with some exceptions like "Teleroboxer".  What it does do is presents games in stereoscopic 3D, which is exactly what the 3DS does.  So, the 3DS didn't go about it in a completely different way.  The 3DS is the full color stereoscopic 3D handheld that Gunpei Yokoi was looking into developing as the Virtual Boy before it was clear that the technology would be too expensive to release.



DonFerrari said:
AlfredoTurkey said:

Yeah.. that only 2% of PS4 owners even own....

More like 3 to 4% already... for a 400 USD add-on, that is good actually.

 

 

 

 

Mandalore76 said:

You do realize that there are more VR platforms out there besides just PSVR?

And even so PSVR have about 50% marketshare against them (Oculus, Vive, etc);

Only those google cardboards and Samsung cellphone VR have more presence... so in gaming VR PSVR is quite dominating.

My point was how motion controls have changed how immersive VR is today.  When the person I was responding to retorted that a small percentage of PS4 owners have PSVR, I countered that there are more VR devices that utilize this than just PSVR, like the Oculus Rift with Touch controllers.  



Mandalore76 said:
DonFerrari said:

More like 3 to 4% already... for a 400 USD add-on, that is good actually.

And even so PSVR have about 50% marketshare against them (Oculus, Vive, etc);

Only those google cardboards and Samsung cellphone VR have more presence... so in gaming VR PSVR is quite dominating.

My point was how motion controls have changed how immersive VR is today.  When the person I was responding to retorted that a small percentage of PS4 owners have PSVR, I countered that there are more VR devices that utilize this than just PSVR, like the Oculus Rift with Touch controllers.  

Ow I see, I thought you were talking more on the size of the userbase than on the number of VR that use some form of motion control (I believe they all use)



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

DonFerrari said:
Mandalore76 said:

My point was how motion controls have changed how immersive VR is today.  When the person I was responding to retorted that a small percentage of PS4 owners have PSVR, I countered that there are more VR devices that utilize this than just PSVR, like the Oculus Rift with Touch controllers.  

Ow I see, I thought you were talking more on the size of the userbase than on the number of VR that use some form of motion control (I believe they all use)

No worries.  A poster had suggested that 3D in games is as worthless as motion controls.  I was pointing out how much of an impact motion controls have had on VR immersion and it spiraled from there.