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Macron Wants To Ban 'Fake News' During Elections

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o_O.Q said:
WhatATimeToBeAlive said:
Looks like many of you don't know what is the issue behind this. It's not aimed against individuals who state their opinions, conspiracy theories, etc.. The problem is the organised disinformation/propaganda that is (mainly) spread by Russia.

Putin and his inner circle got scared in 2011 when there were big protests against him in Russia, and many of the North African and Middle-East dictators were ousted by the people. Then in 2014 when Ukraine broke away from Russia's influence zone and the "anti-West" attitude/tactic was put in full action, the disinformation-flood from Russia started.

This is done by "the troll-factories" that employ hundreds/thousands of people and are located in Russia (some people who worked there have come public about it). They also use bots who do the work automatically, and probably pay individual people/sites located outside of Russia to spread "the message". Russia has also started to support almost every anti-EU (European Union)/anti-west/far right movement, and target the dissinformation-/hacking-campaings towards elections in Europe and USA.

The main goal of this is to keep Putin (and also other autocrats/dictators) in power, cause division in the EU- and other Western countries (the break-up of EU would be Putins dream, because it would be much easier for Russia to influence decisions of countries who are "on their own" and not part of a big union) and undermine people's trust in democracy (The less people, especially the Russians, want a democratic system the better it's for Putin. All of Russia's allies are also basically run by dictators/autocrats, so that's also a good reason to weaken democracy. Or can you think of situation where a country that is democratically run would like to become an close ally to a country run by a dictator.).

 what are some examples of the lies spread by russia?

These are just some related to the ongoing war between Russia and Ukraine (over 10 000 deaths):

- "The unmarked soldiers that invaded Crimea are not Russian soldiers."

- "There are no Russian soldiers or military equipment in Eastern Ukraine."

- "The passenger plane that was shot down over Eastern Ukraine was downed by an Ukrainian military aircraft." (In reality it was shot down by a mobile anti-air missile-system that was brought from Russia, and was most likely operated by Russian soldiers.)

- "Ukraine is run by fascists." (In the 2014 elections that were held after Russia attacked Ukraine, the far-right party got 2 % of the votes. But that didn't stop the Russian state media news from reporting that the far-right party got majority of the votes.)

 

And there are countless of other straight up lies that Russia and its trolls make all the time on daily basis. It's almost at the absurdity-level of North-Korea.



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Aeolus451 said:
palou said:

If you have a source, that really shouldn't be too hard to add at the end. If you don't have a source, don't bother publishing.

1. Sources are often arguable if they are legit or accurate. 

2. Elections are time sensitive. Ya only need to freeze a story temporarily to make it not worth anything regardless if it was accurate or not. 

3. They would abuse it. It would do more harm than good.

Who validates the sources? who validates the validators? How many sources will be legally created just to be able to cite a source?

What you will also end up with is left vs right media constantly trying to discredit each others sources, just as much if not more than the political candidates themselves. What's the point in having a 'reliable' source if your opposition is able to constantly point out, that source isn't always reliable and has other dark secrets that may or may not be related to the political topic? What you can end up with is information sourcing citizens/companies being destroyed over politics, whether they are telling the truth or not. This can then lead to less people willing to do that job/work, which means less information in future elections, and only getting partial information can lead to even greater corruption, and usually does.



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WhatATimeToBeAlive said:
o_O.Q said:

 what are some examples of the lies spread by russia?

These are just some related to the ongoing war between Russia and Ukraine (over 10 000 deaths):

- "The unmarked soldiers that invaded Crimea are not Russian soldiers."

- "There are no Russian soldiers or military equipment in Eastern Ukraine."

- "The passenger plane that was shot down over Eastern Ukraine was downed by an Ukrainian military aircraft." (In reality it was shot down by a mobile anti-air missile-system that was brought from Russia, and was most likely operated by Russian soldiers.)

- "Ukraine is run by fascists." (In the 2014 elections that were held after Russia attacked Ukraine, the far-right party got 2 % of the votes. But that didn't stop the Russian state media news from reporting that the far-right party got majority of the votes.)

 

And there are countless of other straight up lies that Russia and its trolls make all the time on daily basis. It's almost at the absurdity-level of North-Korea.

 

can you show the official russian sources that make these claims?

i find it hard to believe that russia would claim that they had no soldiers in the ukraine

""Ukraine is run by fascists.""

there has been leaked dialogue between us officials about putting a puppet leader in the ukraine... i think that's what people are referring to

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957



o_O.Q said:
WhatATimeToBeAlive said:

These are just some related to the ongoing war between Russia and Ukraine (over 10 000 deaths):

- "The unmarked soldiers that invaded Crimea are not Russian soldiers."

- "There are no Russian soldiers or military equipment in Eastern Ukraine."

- "The passenger plane that was shot down over Eastern Ukraine was downed by an Ukrainian military aircraft." (In reality it was shot down by a mobile anti-air missile-system that was brought from Russia, and was most likely operated by Russian soldiers.)

- "Ukraine is run by fascists." (In the 2014 elections that were held after Russia attacked Ukraine, the far-right party got 2 % of the votes. But that didn't stop the Russian state media news from reporting that the far-right party got majority of the votes.)

 

And there are countless of other straight up lies that Russia and its trolls make all the time on daily basis. It's almost at the absurdity-level of North-Korea.

 

can you show the official russian sources that make these claims?

i find it hard to believe that russia would claim that they had no soldiers in the ukraine

""Ukraine is run by fascists.""

there has been leaked dialogue between us officials about putting a puppet leader in the ukraine... i think that's what people are referring to

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957

"No Russian soldiers in Crimea":

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2014/03/04/285653335/putin-says-those-arent-russian-forces-in-crimea

"No Russian soldiers in Eastern Ukraine":

https://www.rt.com/news/putin-qa-session-questions-084/

https://www.rt.com/news/183356-russia-poroshenko-invasion-ukraine/

https://newrepublic.com/article/119262/russia-burying-soldiers-unmarked-graves-hide-invasion

"Passenger plane was shot down by an Ukrainian military plane":

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-crisis-mh17-images/russian-tv-channel-says-photos-show-mh17-shot-down-by-fighter-jet-idUSKCN0IZ0EU20141115

"Ukraine is fascist":

https://www.rt.com/op-edge/235807-fascism-mideast-ukraine-neo-nazi/

 

It's very "suspicious" that you are not aware of these (and the countless others) Russian lies (haven't you followed any news?), but you can bring up some hacked phone call (which doesn't have any relation to the claim that "UKraine is run by fascist"). Are you biased?



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EricHiggin said:
Aeolus451 said:

1. Sources are often arguable if they are legit or accurate. 

2. Elections are time sensitive. Ya only need to freeze a story temporarily to make it not worth anything regardless if it was accurate or not. 

3. They would abuse it. It would do more harm than good.

Who validates the sources? who validates the validators? How many sources will be legally created just to be able to cite a source?

What you will also end up with is left vs right media constantly trying to discredit each others sources, just as much if not more than the political candidates themselves. What's the point in having a 'reliable' source if your opposition is able to constantly point out, that source isn't always reliable and has other dark secrets that may or may not be related to the political topic? What you can end up with is information sourcing citizens/companies being destroyed over politics, whether they are telling the truth or not. This can then lead to less people willing to do that job/work, which means less information in future elections, and only getting partial information can lead to even greater corruption, and usually does.

ugh. I prefer what we have now (leaving it up to people to what they listen to) versus giving the government more control over information. Only certain kinds of governments want that kind of control over people and it never leads to something good.  



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WhatATimeToBeAlive said:
o_O.Q said:

 

can you show the official russian sources that make these claims?

i find it hard to believe that russia would claim that they had no soldiers in the ukraine

""Ukraine is run by fascists.""

there has been leaked dialogue between us officials about putting a puppet leader in the ukraine... i think that's what people are referring to

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957

"No Russian soldiers in Crimea":

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2014/03/04/285653335/putin-says-those-arent-russian-forces-in-crimea

"No Russian soldiers in Eastern Ukraine":

https://www.rt.com/news/putin-qa-session-questions-084/

https://www.rt.com/news/183356-russia-poroshenko-invasion-ukraine/

https://newrepublic.com/article/119262/russia-burying-soldiers-unmarked-graves-hide-invasion

"Passenger plane was shot down by an Ukrainian military plane":

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-crisis-mh17-images/russian-tv-channel-says-photos-show-mh17-shot-down-by-fighter-jet-idUSKCN0IZ0EU20141115

"Ukraine is fascist":

https://www.rt.com/op-edge/235807-fascism-mideast-ukraine-neo-nazi/

 

It's very "suspicious" that you are not aware of these (and the countless others) Russian lies (haven't you followed any news?), but you can bring up some hacked phone call (which doesn't have any relation to the claim that "UKraine is run by fascist"). Are you biased?

It's not a secret that there are fascists in Ukraine, but yeah...citing RT (which is a propaganda instrument run by Putin) tells all one needs to know.



WhatATimeToBeAlive said:
o_O.Q said:

 

can you show the official russian sources that make these claims?

i find it hard to believe that russia would claim that they had no soldiers in the ukraine

""Ukraine is run by fascists.""

there has been leaked dialogue between us officials about putting a puppet leader in the ukraine... i think that's what people are referring to

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957

"No Russian soldiers in Crimea":

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2014/03/04/285653335/putin-says-those-arent-russian-forces-in-crimea

"No Russian soldiers in Eastern Ukraine":

https://www.rt.com/news/putin-qa-session-questions-084/

https://www.rt.com/news/183356-russia-poroshenko-invasion-ukraine/

https://newrepublic.com/article/119262/russia-burying-soldiers-unmarked-graves-hide-invasion

"Passenger plane was shot down by an Ukrainian military plane":

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-crisis-mh17-images/russian-tv-channel-says-photos-show-mh17-shot-down-by-fighter-jet-idUSKCN0IZ0EU20141115

"Ukraine is fascist":

https://www.rt.com/op-edge/235807-fascism-mideast-ukraine-neo-nazi/

 

It's very "suspicious" that you are not aware of these (and the countless others) Russian lies (haven't you followed any news?), but you can bring up some hacked phone call (which doesn't have any relation to the claim that "UKraine is run by fascist"). Are you biased?

 

"It's very "suspicious" that you are not aware of these (and the countless others) Russian lies (haven't you followed any news?), but you can bring up some hacked phone call (which doesn't have any relation to the claim that "UKraine is run by fascist")."

 

to reiterate the hacked phone call was about the us putting a puppet leader in the ukraine... how is that unrelated to discussion about the leader of the ukraine?

it shows that the united states at the time was meddling in the political affairs of both countries

 

and we are drifting massively here... my question was initially about the lies russian have told to influence affairs in the us(someone was talking about facebook ads for example), with regards to the conflict between russia and the ukraine that leaked phone call all by itself tells me that something is fishy about how its being framed and that's my personal opinion, but regardless its irrelevant to my initial query



Errorist76 said:
o_O.Q said:

"which pretends to be Anonymous"

anyone can be considered a member of anonymous, they do not have a members list or anything like that

 

"who published sensationalist and mainly racist bullshit and lies, half-facts without context..exactly what could be considered fake news!"

examples?... and this site is separate from the facebook ads i suppose? or are the facebook ads based on this site?

Use some Google translate if you must.

and no, Anonymous have several times officially declared the guy stands against their ideas and is no part of Anonymous. The guy used to run the Facebook page for Anonymous.Kollektiv, his former name but was banned by Facebook a while ago for posting hate speech and misinformation.

ok ok, so how does this link back to all the russia lies and propaganda?

this guy is a russian funded agent?



I think anyone has a brain can see the term fake news has been weponized by the right to shout down facts and the mainstream globalists to silence all oppoisition.



WhatATimeToBeAlive said:
Looks like many of you don't know what is the issue behind this. It's not aimed against individuals who state their opinions, conspiracy theories, etc.. The problem is the organised disinformation/propaganda that is (mainly) spread by Russia.

Putin and his inner circle got scared in 2011 when there were big protests against him in Russia, and many of the North African and Middle-East dictators were ousted by the people. Then in 2014 when Ukraine broke away from Russia's influence zone and the "anti-West" attitude/tactic was put in full action, the disinformation-flood from Russia started.

This is done by "the troll-factories" that employ hundreds/thousands of people and are located in Russia (some people who worked there have come public about it). They also use bots who do the work automatically, and probably pay individual people/sites located outside of Russia to spread "the message". Russia has also started to support almost every anti-EU (European Union)/anti-west/far right movement, and target the dissinformation-/hacking-campaings towards elections in Europe and USA.

The main goal of this is to keep Putin (and also other autocrats/dictators) in power, cause division in the EU- and other Western countries (the break-up of EU would be Putins dream, because it would be much easier for Russia to influence decisions of countries who are "on their own" and not part of a big union) and undermine people's trust in democracy (The less people, especially the Russians, want a democratic system the better it's for Putin. All of Russia's allies are also basically run by dictators/autocrats, so that's also a good reason to weaken democracy. Or can you think of situation where a country that is democratically run would like to become an close ally to a country run by a dictator.).

"many of the North African and Middle-East dictators were ousted by the people."

 

i missed this earlier and this is bs that has been spread to justify how the us has been destroying countries like iraq, lybia, syria etc etc etc

there are mountains of evidence that show that the united states has going into these countries and destabalising them by funding, aiding and training rebels and dictators

 

lets take iraq as an example were you aware for example that saddam hussein was put in power by the us?

https://www.globalpolicy.org/iraq-conflict-the-historical-background-/us-and-british-support-for-huss-regime.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/revealed-how-the-west-set-saddam-on-the-bloody-road-to-power-1258618.html

http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/51/217.html

 

that the us aided saddam in his attacks?

http://foreignpolicy.com/2013/08/26/exclusive-cia-files-prove-america-helped-saddam-as-he-gassed-iran/

 

or is this all just russia propaganda? i could quite easily go on to talk about lybia, syria etc etc etc

 

witness the birth of al qaeda

 

general wesley clark a russian spy?

 

the thing is that this info is readily available and yet there's still this narrative about how the us is a peaceful benevolent brother to all countries that just wants peace

Last edited by o_O.Q - on 06 January 2018