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Best MCU sub-series?

Iron Man 1 3.33%
 
Thor 1 3.33%
 
Captain America 11 36.67%
 
The Avengers 9 30.00%
 
Guardians of the Galaxy 8 26.67%
 
Total:30
Mandalore76 said:
mZuzek said:

So are you in?

Sure, count me in.

mZuzek said:

Nah most of the complaints I see are a lot more shallow than that. Like "it was too childish" or "too many jokes means you can't take it seriously" (I actually can't take seriously anyone who doesn't understand how GotG storytelling works) or even "too much drama". (edit: or actually in the case of Angelus here, which seems to be most people as well, simply "it wasn't as good as the original" or downright "it was bad" for no apparent reason.)

I disagree about the movie being congested, I think all of the subplots worked really well and all of the characters had a very well-developed arc that was fulfilling as hell by the end. I think the pacing is nearly perfect - there's at least one little scene I would personally remove from the movie, and one or another I'd trim down a bit or partially cut as well -, but those are so few it's basically nitpicking.

Funny enough, there's a certain other blockbuster this year that absolutely did suffer from a far too congested story with too many characters and too many subplots in a running time that, while not enough for everything, still felt much longer than it actually was (and also the subplots weren't well executed at all). But, I guess that's the sort of discussion we really don't need here.

I absolutely loved the first Guardians of the Galaxy.  I was amped just by the initial trailer alone, and the movie delivered beyond my wildest expectations.  It was a very hard act for itself to follow.  Having said that, I am one of those people who thinks that James Gunn did try a little too hard to capture lightning in a bottle twice when it came to the script of the sequel.  I'm not saying there were too many jokes, because yes, in the Guardians of the Galaxy format, that works.  But it works, when it is done well.  I get that humor is subjective.  But for me, part 2 had jokes and sequences that felt way more forced than the original, trying too hard to be funny without actually being funny.  The Taserface bit comes to mind.  I didn't find it as laugh out loud funny as Gunn apparently did.  And so for me, it was a joke that fell flat initially and then gotten dragged out and beaten to death.  Anyway, I don't hate the movie.  It had a very moving and impactful scene at the end, and plenty of light-hearted fun sprinkled throughout for me to say that I enjoyed it.  Some of the comedy bits just didn't feel as organic to me as they were in the original is all.

Wow, that sums up my thoughts perfectly, right down to the "lightning in a bottle" line. Gunn was trying so hard to recreate the sparkling chemistry of the first movie. A little too hard. It ends up feeling forced. 

I think the movie is also weighed down by a manic plot that chases its own tail for much of the running time. 



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Doc755 said:
Veknoid_Outcast said:

 

I agree and disagree. I think the characterization of Jonathan Kent was interesting. He doesn't have to be a saint to be a good character. I think there's a lot of dramatic potential there, with a character who cares so deeply about his adopted son that he's willing to sacrifice countless innocent lives to safeguard his superhuman identity.

Where I agree is the execution. It was handled poorly, and then retconned in BvS. And the tornado sequence is just a disaster (no pun intended) of a scene.

That, in and of itself, seemed to be the problem. They wanted something different but had not idea how to use it. The dynamic in 1978 is so powerful in that Superman’s birth father mandates he cannot “interfere in human history” while his adoptive father advocates that Clark is “there for a reason”. Superman ultimately had to decide what to do on his own and it comes down to his perceived “failure” at saving his adoptive father. Man of Steel’s interpretation (while possibly having potential dramatic impact) just has no idea what to do with itself. Clark just does what his father says and he’s not an agent on his own change. And then BvS has him saying he only helps people because it’s what his adoptive father wanted! My brain hurts

Yeah, the whole DCEU is one big experiment on intent vs. execution, and how the first doesn't mean jack shit if you can't make the second work.



Veknoid_Outcast said:
Mandalore76 said:

Sure, count me in.

I absolutely loved the first Guardians of the Galaxy.  I was amped just by the initial trailer alone, and the movie delivered beyond my wildest expectations.  It was a very hard act for itself to follow.  Having said that, I am one of those people who thinks that James Gunn did try a little too hard to capture lightning in a bottle twice when it came to the script of the sequel.  I'm not saying there were too many jokes, because yes, in the Guardians of the Galaxy format, that works.  But it works, when it is done well.  I get that humor is subjective.  But for me, part 2 had jokes and sequences that felt way more forced than the original, trying too hard to be funny without actually being funny.  The Taserface bit comes to mind.  I didn't find it as laugh out loud funny as Gunn apparently did.  And so for me, it was a joke that fell flat initially and then gotten dragged out and beaten to death.  Anyway, I don't hate the movie.  It had a very moving and impactful scene at the end, and plenty of light-hearted fun sprinkled throughout for me to say that I enjoyed it.  Some of the comedy bits just didn't feel as organic to me as they were in the original is all.

Wow, that sums up my thoughts perfectly, right down to the "lightning in a bottle" line. Gunn was trying so hard to recreate the sparkling chemistry of the first movie. A little too hard. It ends up feeling forced. 

This sort of reaction feels like something that would happen regardless of what the sequel ended up being like. It's a destructive mindset to go in and start comparing things to the original, using your memory of the first movie as a standard when truly your memory is also probably very blurred as well - because you didn't have expectations going into the first movie, so the humor might have felt natural because you weren't expecting it (even if it was often similar to that of Vol. 2). It's also worth noting that it makes a lot of sense for the humor in Vol. 2 to be "dumber" because that's usually how relationships, particularly male-male friend relationships evolve - eventually you just start to talk literally about crap with your friends, something you'd never do when you had originally met them.

I'm trying to paint a different picture here, but the reality is I just hate you all.



Veknoid_Outcast said:
Doc755 said:

That, in and of itself, seemed to be the problem. They wanted something different but had not idea how to use it. The dynamic in 1978 is so powerful in that Superman’s birth father mandates he cannot “interfere in human history” while his adoptive father advocates that Clark is “there for a reason”. Superman ultimately had to decide what to do on his own and it comes down to his perceived “failure” at saving his adoptive father. Man of Steel’s interpretation (while possibly having potential dramatic impact) just has no idea what to do with itself. Clark just does what his father says and he’s not an agent on his own change. And then BvS has him saying he only helps people because it’s what his adoptive father wanted! My brain hurts

Yeah, the whole DCEU is one big experiment on intent vs. execution, and how the first doesn't mean jack shit if you can't make the second work.

Well you know my theory. That Man of Steel was never intended to launch a shared universe. Their production slate is just “we’ll take anything that sounds serviceable!” We should pitch a film



Doc755 said:
Veknoid_Outcast said:

Yeah, the whole DCEU is one big experiment on intent vs. execution, and how the first doesn't mean jack shit if you can't make the second work.

Well you know my theory. That Man of Steel was never intended to launch a shared universe. Their production slate is just “we’ll take anything that sounds serviceable!” We should pitch a film

This is probably true



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Angelus said:
Doc755 said:

Well you know my theory. That Man of Steel was never intended to launch a shared universe. Their production slate is just “we’ll take anything that sounds serviceable!” We should pitch a film

This is probably true

Yep, I think that is spot on as well.  DC/Warner Bros were disappointed with the box office returns from Man of Steel.  So, instead of greenlighting a straight up Man of Steel 2, they announced that the next Superman film would be Batman v Superman.  And, because they were so hell bent on getting to their own Avengers movie (and wishfully hoping for Avengers type profits), that it not only would it not just be Man of Steel 2, it wasn't just going to be Batman v Superman either.  No, it had to be Batman v Superman:  Dawn of Justice so that they could justify to themselves putting out a Justice League movie without laying any of the actual groundwork for it.  It would be like if Marvel hadn't been happy with Iron Man's box office returns.  And so instead of doing the Incredible Hulk or Iron Man 2, they went straight for the jugular and released Iron Man vs The Hulk:  "Here comes the Avengers" complete with 5 second cameos from Thor and Captain America.  Oh, and Black Widow shows up, to which Iron Man says "Who's that?" and Hulk replies, "I thought she was with you."



I was just planning on rewatching the entire MCU before the task got too daunting to take on. You can definitely count me in!



Veknoid_Outcast said:
Volterra_90 said:

Great, I feel that both Civil War and Winter Soldier are probably the best MCU movies. I might be surprised in the rewatch about some movies, but I can almost assure that those two movies will be first xD.

My man!

Those are my #1 and #2. We are going to get along well over the next four months :D

Same here, I really love the whole Cap trilogy.  One thing they have consistently done is surprise me with how good these movies are.  I didn't even really think much of Captain America as a character before the first movie.  Then after the first movie I'm like, "Wow! That was extremely well done.  I think I like this movie even more than the first Iron Man."  Then Winter Soldier comes out, and I'm like, "Wow that was even better than the first Cap."  Then Civil War.  "What?  This is even better again?  How is this even possible?"

I have been geeking out over Infinity War for months now.  The Russo brothers are directing it, and they also directed both Winter Solder and Civil War.  Infinity War is going to rock!



The_Liquid_Laser said:
Veknoid_Outcast said:

My man!

Those are my #1 and #2. We are going to get along well over the next four months :D

Same here, I really love the whole Cap trilogy.  One thing they have consistently done is surprise me with how good these movies are.  I didn't even really think much of Captain America as a character before the first movie.  Then after the first movie I'm like, "Wow! That was extremely well done.  I think I like this movie even more than the first Iron Man."  Then Winter Soldier comes out, and I'm like, "Wow that was even better than the first Cap."  Then Civil War.  "What?  This is even better again?  How is this even possible?"

I have been geeking out over Infinity War for months now.  The Russo brothers are directing it, and they also directed both Winter Solder and Civil War.  Infinity War is going to rock!

Yeah, it's one of the rare trilogies where each installment is better than the last. Actually, is there another trilogy that achieves that?

And yes, the Russo bros. are the best thing to happen to MCU, outside of Feige of course :)



Trunkin said:
I was just planning on rewatching the entire MCU before the task got too daunting to take on. You can definitely count me in!

Awesome!