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Forums - Movies & TV - The Marvelous Marvel Rewatch (Now Playing: Avengers: Infinity War)

 

Best MCU sub-series?

Iron Man 1 3.03%
 
Thor 1 3.03%
 
Captain America 12 36.36%
 
The Avengers 9 27.27%
 
Guardians of the Galaxy 10 30.30%
 
Total:33

I loved The Winter Soldier when I first saw it. I was itching to discuss the film as soon as I left the theatre. Of course, at that time Veknoid was hating on the film and it took me a few years of praising it before he rewatched it and did an about face. I loved the action. I loved the character moments. I don’t think anyone is wasted. I was excited going in based on the trailers alone which gave the film a different feel. It looked like a political thriller wrapped in a superhero packaging. I had been disappointed with Iron Man 3 and pleasantly surprised by The Dark World, so going into Winter Soldier I was conflicted. But it was a thrilling ride and held up under subsequent viewings. See you on the other side!



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Doc755 said:

I loved The Winter Soldier when I first saw it. I was itching to discuss the film as soon as I left the theatre. Of course, at that time Veknoid was hating on the film and it took me a few years of praising it before he rewatched it and did an about face. I loved the action. I loved the character moments. I don’t think anyone is wasted. I was excited going in based on the trailers alone which gave the film a different feel. It looked like a political thriller wrapped in a superhero packaging. I had been disappointed with Iron Man 3 and pleasantly surprised by The Dark World, so going into Winter Soldier I was conflicted. But it was a thrilling ride and held up under subsequent viewings. See you on the other side!

Heh, most of "Phase 2" is a time period where I was just about through with Marvel.  I was pretty disappointed with both the Avengers and Iron Man 3, so I decided to skip seeing Winter Soldier in the theaters.  Why?  I don't know.  I always loved the first Cap movie, but so much of what I loved was the WWII/40s setting, so I wasn't interested in Winter Soldier.  I was also convinced that Marvel had jumped the shark by even releasing a Guardians of the Galaxy movie.  "Who is going to care about these D-List characters?"  So I didn't see Guardians originally either.  Thor 2 wasn't even on my radar.   A buddy had to tell me it came out a couple of years after the fact.

Luckily I had a cheap theater in my city back when these movies were semi-current.  So I saw Winter Soldier maybe 6 - 9 months after it released.  Loved it.  When I found out Guardians was the highest grossing movie that year, I decided to give it a shot too many months after release.  Loved it.  Marvel had totally won me back.  I even loved Avengers 2, which surprised me, because I wasn't too big a fan of Avengers 1 at the time. 

Basically, during Phase 2 the MCU totally won me over.  Now I am the biggest MCU fanboy.  But at the time, I didn't even want to give them another chance.



Captain America: Winter Soldier - 10/10 - This is among my favorite Marvel movies and made me really like Captain America, it was a great deconstruction while still feeling true to the character. It had a great conflict within it and re contextualized how Cap fit in the modern world. No surprise after this the Russo Brothers have been given more and more influence within MCU with Civil War and now Infinity War.

Black Panther - 8/10 - I finally saw it, and it was a really solid movie. I liked the characters and how it handled sensitive aspects to Wakanda and world building. Killmonger and T'Challa had well developed interwoven history that plays on themes within the movie. My only real complaint was pacing issues toward the end as final thrid felt rushed and climatic battle was bit underwhelming.



Winter Soldier continues to hold my spot for favorite MCU film. It’s also the point where I switched over from Team Iron Man to Team Cap. More than anything else, I think this film elevates Evans (who I cannot say enough how glad I was to be wrong about) as the central figure of the MCU. I love Downey and he continues to be the key player behind the scenes, but Evans, or rather Cap, takes center stage here and won’t let it go anytime soon. That largely has to do with the arc that Cap undergoes in these films. His character is continually growing and adapting. Tony feels like continuing variations on a theme, but that can be discussed more in his later films.

This film benefits from a tight script. While over two hours long, the film never seems to lag and each scene seems to service the next. There is no filler. Not only is the film plotted out well, but the structure of the film serves both to entertain and advance the story. That opening action sequence, while both engaging the audience right away, also fuels the arc we’re going to see in this film and those going forward. Cap and Widow’s relationship is established as amicable but somewhat standoffish. She continually tries to put him at ease while he seems disinterested. Meanwhile, Cap’s growing frustration with SHIELD, and particularly Nick Fury, and the moral gray zone in which they operate is there from the beginning which continues a thread from The Avengers. In that film, Tony challenges Cap to question authority and not blindly follow orders. Cap is still playing the role of the good soldier at the beginning of this film, but it’s a role he’s containing to chafe at.

Cap being the man out of time and hailing from (arguably) a simpler era where the world was at war but had clear heroes and villains, is the best thing going for this character. Evans plays that frustration, self-doubt and disillusionment admirably. You can see it on his face when he discusses his issues with Fury. He remains restrained but you see the frustration growing until he finally admits he’s considering leaving it all behind and forging a new path for himself. The same goes for his personal relationships. The heartbreak on his face when confronted with Peggy’s Alzheimer’s, the disappointment in a turned down date from his neighbor and the deep loyalty he has for his friends.

I’ll try and run through this quickly as I think others have covered it and my reviews keep getting longer. Mackie is a fine addition to the MCU and he and Cap develop a brotherly bond quickly due to the strong chemistry of the actors. Same goes with Stan as Bucky. We don’t get to see much of their friendship in First Avenger. But Evans sells the hell out of his desperation at reaching his best friend. Being the central conflict, it does take a backseat to the overall plot, but the fight scenes between the two are more powerful because of how Evans sells that relationship. Cap dropping his shield (through the broken window!) is an evocative image. Evans’ resignation in that moment tells us everything we need to know more than a long speech ever would. Stan is fine but not given a lot to work with. I think he comes off better in Civil War once he’s out from under the cloud of assassin machine. We’ll see.

Finally, there’s Black Widow. The Cap/Natasha relationship is really my favorite stand of the film. They start off as coworkers and through their experiences become steadfast allies and develop a real bond. I wish this was a thread that was not dropped for some ill-conceived romance with Banner in Age of Ultron, but I’ll rant at that appointed time. Evans and Johansson have real heat when they’re at odds and tenderness when she opens up to him at Sam’s house. This would have made more sense as a romantic relationship, but I’m glad they’ve kept it platonic. They have a brother/sister-type rivalry/affection for one another and I find that way more interesting than “I love your abs. Now let’s bang and fall in love!”

So the action. The Russos really hit their high point here. Cap is powerful and the fight scenes are more brutal and not as stylized as can sometimes be the case. I actually liked the fight scene with Batroc at the beginning as it illustrates Cap’s power. When using his shield, he fights more defensively and they seem evenly matched. Once challenged to lose the shield, Cap takes him down pretty handily showing that Cap is aware of his power and holds back. This provides a nice contrast in his first battle with Bucky (before the reveal) because he’s more evenly matched in hand to hand and it shows how much a threat the Winter Soldier is. The chase with Fury, the street battle between HYDRA and Cap & Friends and the final battle between Cap and Bucky are all well done. You can actually understand what is going on in the fight. There are not a lot of quick, confusing cuts. And they feel violent. This is a real struggle between two powerful adversaries.

Finally, HYDRA. In the theatre, when the reveal was made, it actually made me sit up. I had been theorizing that HYDRA was the secret organization working behind the scenes on Agents of SHIELD but did not expect them to be inside SHIELD. I thought it was a powerful twist (even if it had not been set up at all in previous films). As a film twist, I think it works. It’s when you dwell on it after, you start to notice the logistical problems. This would end up hurting Agents of SHIELD a lot over the next two seasons. How something like this works, you don’t have to think too much about watching the film. But when you have to work that twist into your overall universe, you see the flaws. I will say, the reason it’s so powerful, is that SHIELD had been so omnipresent in the MCU up until this point. That connective tissue was ripped away and it gave a sense of the unknown going forward. I will say that making the bad guys HYDRA is also a bit of a cop out. SHIELD certainly has its issues with surveillance, privacy and doing what they think is best in the name of world security and it would have been interesting to see Cap go up against SHIELD itself regarding Project Insight. But that would be more of a thriller than an action film and I doubt SHIELD would try to assassinate him.

Minor quibble would be where the hell was Hawkeye and why wouldn’t Cap give Tony a ring, but that’s just something we have to accept in these films.

I’m going to give Captain America: The Winter Soldier an 8/10. I used to rank it below Iron Man and The Avengers. While I loved it, I think I kept it down because I was afraid that I would not be objective for its score. But rewatching these films and writing this review, I talked myself up. I’ll put a caveat down because I might regret my decision and switch it with Iron Man but for right now I’m happy to say it’s the best the MCU has so far, and may still have. I need to rewatch everything from Ant-Man on as I’ve only seen those once. Overall, a great superhero film that manages to deliver a solid political story and provides a great arc for its lead. Go Team Cap!

Current rankings:
1) Captain America: The Winter Soldier
2) Iron Man
3) The Avengers
4) The Incredible Hulk
5) Black Panther
6) Iron Man 3
7) Captain America: The First Avenger
8) Thor: The Dark World
9) Thor
10) Iron Man 2

Last edited by Doc755 - on 05 March 2018

Doc755 said: 

Minor quibble would be where the hell was Hawkeye and why wouldn’t Cap give Tony a ring, but that’s just something we have to accept in these films.

Hawkeye has a family, so probably there during the 2 days this all takes place.

As for the second part, you raise a question comic book readers have been asking for years.

Beast: "Hey, Apocalypse has just invaded the school and we are having trouble with him. Should we call my former team mates to help out, or the Fantastic Four?"

All the other X-men "Sorry what? We too busy getting our arse kicked by Apolcaypse over here."

That said in recent year before I stopped reading. Marvel had moved into an odd era, mutants were dying out and instead of helping them out the other heroes of the world ignored them, then when Cyclops started showing signs of 'mutants are more important'. The Avengers and alike abandoned the X-men completely. Characterisations were well off around X-men vs Avengers. There was a laughable moment when Emma Frost while inhabited by Pheonix said to Iceman to fill ditches near edge of fields in Africa to help irrigation as the ice melted and Iceman said "I've never thought of that before." Or some crap.

Less said about what happened after the better. Bendis ruined the X-men.



Hmm, pie.

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The Fury said:
Doc755 said: 

Minor quibble would be where the hell was Hawkeye and why wouldn’t Cap give Tony a ring, but that’s just something we have to accept in these films.

Hawkeye has a family, so probably there during the 2 days this all takes place.

As for the second part, you raise a question comic book readers have been asking for years.

Beast: "Hey, Apocalypse has just invaded the school and we are having trouble with him. Should we call my former team mates to help out, or the Fantastic Four?"

All the other X-men "Sorry what? We too busy getting our arse kicked by Apolcaypse over here."

That said in recent year before I stopped reading. Marvel had moved into an odd era, mutants were dying out and instead of helping them out the other heroes of the world ignored them, then when Cyclops started showing signs of 'mutants are more important'. The Avengers and alike abandoned the X-men completely. Characterisations were well off around X-men vs Avengers. There was a laughable moment when Emma Frost while inhabited by Pheonix said to Iceman to fill ditches near edge of fields in Africa to help irrigation as the ice melted and Iceman said "I've never thought of that before." Or some crap.

Less said about what happened after the better. Bendis ruined the X-men.

A question I ask a lot in the Arrowverse as well. Oliver: I have no time to stop this man. I wish I knew someone really fast I could call. 😉



The 'risk' is this weekend. This will probably bump up people's review numbers also.



Hmm, pie.

The Fury said:
The 'risk' is this weekend. This will probably bump up people's review numbers also.

Agreed. For me we're heading into the most consistent period of the MCU so far.

 

OT: Apologies, all, about my lateness in updating the scores. I was out of town for work. Will update shortly!



The Fury said:
The 'risk' is this weekend. This will probably bump up people's review numbers also.

I had never read or even knew about the Guardians until the film was announced. I was happy to see Marvel was taking a gamble in (seemingly) trying something new. And I was sold once I heard “What a bunch of a-holes” in the trailer. 😂



Guardians of the Galaxy

Man, I really hated on this movie from the second I heard it was even going to be released.  I recognized Drax and Gamora from the Infinity Gauntlet storyline, and they were two characters that I really did not like.  At the time Iron Man 1 and Cap 1 were the only movies I really liked, and I thought Marvel was overall just getting worse and worse and this Guardians movie was a new low.  (Kind of like how people see DC movies actually.)  Finally after several friends told me it was good and also I found out it was the highest grossing movie of the year, I decided to go see it.  I'm glad that I finally did.

Just rewatched it again for like the 3rd or 4th time a couple of days ago.  Below are my thoughts, and as always there are lots of spoilers, so don't read if you haven't seen the movie yet.


Pluses:

The soundtrack is fantastic.  On top of that the makers of this film were aware of that and they integrated the music into the story line, which makes it even better.

There is a very strong family theme in this film, which plays really well.  The underlying story is that all of the characters are from broken/dysfunctional families in some way, so they desperately want family, but they are afraid of getting hurt at the same time.  One moment they are pulling on your heartstrings, while the next they are making fun of how sentimental everyone is.    In any given scene, you don't know which of these directions they are going to go, which makes things more interesting.

The characters/actors are fantastic and it is very easy to grow attached to this cast.  Even some of the antagonists like Yondu and Nebula are fairly interesting.

Because this movie is so separate from the rest of the MCU, they were very free talking about Thanos and the Infinity Stones, which I like.  I actually expected something like Infinity War to come very soon after this movie.  I am actually surprised we've had to wait as long as we did.

Overall there are three basic philosophies to sci-fi: 1) Technology will solve all our problems and make society better in every way.  2)  Technology will make everything worse.  3)  Technology will give us cool gadgets, but other than that people will continue to be more or less like they always have.  This movie embraces philosophy 3, which is the viewpoint I prefer in sci-fi.


Minuses:

Ronin is kind of a dumb villain.  Do we even find out why he wants to destroy Xandar?  If so, I missed it.


In conclusion, Guardians of the Galaxy is a movie I would recommend to anyone.  On the surface it's a Marvel movie, but underneath it has a great cast, great soundtrack, and it's a hilarious movie with a lot of heart.  The main villain is kind of dumb, but that's ok, because that just means the Guardians will make you laugh at him.

9/10