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Forums - General Discussion - "Christianity, if false, is of no importance, and if true, of infinite importance. The only thing it cannot be is moderately important."

vivster said:
Zoombael said:
Religion plays a vital part in human evolution. Simplifying it with right and wrong argumentation is... false.

Nobody questions its impact. The debate is whether it was and is for the better or worse.

As i wrote, it cant be narrowed down to false or true. You dont see anyone do that with our five digit hand with opposable thumb. Its good for masturbation and fondling boobs, but it also gave us the power of nuclear destruction and anthrax (ref. to recent events).

 

From my point of view Religion is as integral a part of the evolution of man and his quest to overcome his... origins... as the human hand is.



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Rogerioandrade said:
That´s true for every religion and even for atheism.

How is that true for atheism? 



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Zoombael said:
vivster said:

Nobody questions its impact. The debate is whether it was and is for the better or worse.

As i wrote, it cant be narrowed down to false or true. You dont see anyone do that with our five digit hand with opposable thumb. Its good for masturbation and fondling boobs, but it also gave us the power of nuclear destruction and anthrax (ref. to recent events).

 

From my point of view Religion is as integral a part of the evolution of man and his quest to overcome his... origins... as the human hand is.

Human evolution stopped the moment us apes became too intelligent. Since then, humans have actively worked against natural evolution, for example by creating religion and morals.

Opposable thumbs are a net win for humans btw, so we can safely classify them as a good thing. Just like we classify Hitler as definitively bad, despite him petting that puppy once. Defining absolutes by calculating the net gain is a very useful thing, that has advanced humans quite a bit.

And if it wasn't back then, Religion has become a definite net loss for humanity now.



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Peh said:
Rogerioandrade said:
That´s true for every religion and even for atheism.

How is that true for atheism? 

Because atheism is the reverse of religion. If something is true or false, then the opposite of that thing is also true or false. Simple math, really.



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religion in general is very influential. aside personal views.



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In principle, that statement is absolutely true. (Although Christianity has been a huge influence in the world regardless of how true it is.)
If there is no (Christian) God, the whole thing is just another fairytale among others.
If there is a God, it is the most important thing there is and I am amazed at how casual the believers are about their faith. It's as though they don't *really* believe it to be true in their heart of hearts, it's just something they do. Nobody really follows the bible to the letter, which you would expect if you really were concerned about your immortal soul. The Westboro Baptist Church are propably the most true followers of the bible and everybody thinks they are crazy. Well, the Bible is crazy so they are on the right track when it comes to that. Most people just pick and choose the parts that they like from the book and ignore other bits, that's cheating to me. Even the WBC are not ready to sell all their belongings and follow Christ to the fullest, and obviously they cannot go about killing people or they would be in trouble.
So, nobody really takes the (possibly) most important thing in life seriously enough to secure their place in heaven. What can I say?



vivster said:
Peh said:

How is that true for atheism? 

Because atheism is the reverse of religion. If something is true or false, then the opposite of that thing is also true or false. Simple math, really.

So, not believing in magical ponies has what kind of infinite importance?

Mind you that there are atheistic religions like Buddhism.



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Saying you can prove something like the religion of Christianity as false is as nonsensical as saying you can prove the language of English as false. Or proving Biology is false.

Do you mean proving God false? Because not all Christians believe in God (Christian Atheists), and there're a number of different ideas that Christians have about the nature of God - there are official Church doctrines, but then there are many who follow those Churches who believe in something completely different than the church they follow: for example, Catholicism is officially a trinitarian theology, but many Catholics still believe there is just one form of God, and don't quite understand trinitarianism; "God the Father" is a completely unknowable portion of God (basically, trinitarianism in a nutshell: God the Father exists outside of time and space, God the Son is his Word - the DNA/Code that makes up the nature/laws of the universe - and God the Holy Spirit is the physics or "breath/pneuma" that carries the word - The prophets are inhabited by the Word in order to preach doctrine; Jesus is the Word made flesh/Logos Incarnate). In short - there's no consensus as to what God is among Christians, trinitarianism isn't the core of Christianity, it is the doctrine Catholics accepted in the 4th century AD - you can somehow prove that wrong, but it won't make much difference.


You can potentially prove that Jesus never lived - but all that means is that churches will be forced to adapt their doctrines to focus on Jesus as a symbolic/allegorical figure, which isn't that big of a step for most churches today. Most churches don't really focus on biblical scripture as a historical documentary, but rather as inspirational or enlightening passages. Pure Christian literalism is actually fairly fringe, and I honestly don't think I have actually come across a Christian who is a pure literalist in my entire life... I have read about them "Westboro Baptist Church" (What is a "boro" anyway? Do they just spell Borough wrong?) but have never met any of them.

Basically, trying to prove Christianity as false is like trying to prove a fashion trend as false, or a language, or any other kind of cultural movement. You can prove elements about certain churches to be false, But even proving creationism false didn't end all religions that have a creation myth within them - and this isn't a recent occurrence either, even many religious people as far back as the Roman Empire didn't believe in creationism - St. Augustine, the most prominent non-biblical writer in Christian history, didn't believe in literalist interpretation of Genesis or creationism.

Last edited by Jumpin - on 27 December 2017

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Jumpin said:

Saying you can prove something like the religion of Christianity as false is as nonsensical as saying you can prove the language of English as false. Or proving Biology is false.

Do you mean proving God false? Because not all Christians believe in God (Christian Atheists), and there're a number of different ideas that Christians have about the nature of God - there are official Church doctrines, but then there are many who follow those Churches who believe in something completely different than the church they follow: for example, Catholicism is officially a trinitarian theology, but many Catholics still believe there is just one form of God, and don't quite understand trinitarianism; "God the Father" is a completely unknowable portion of God (basically, trinitarianism in a nutshell: God the Father exists outside of time and space, God the Son is his Word - the DNA/Code that makes up the nature/laws of the universe - and God the Holy Spirit is the physics or "breath/pneuma" that carries the word - The prophets are inhabited by the Word in order to preach doctrine; Jesus is the Word made flesh/Logos Incarnate). In short - there's no consensus as to what God is among Christians, trinitarianism isn't the core of Christianity, it is the doctrine Catholics accepted in the 4th century AD - you can somehow prove that wrong, but it won't make much difference.


You can potentially prove that Jesus never lived - but all that means is that churches will be forced to adapt their doctrines to focus on Jesus as a symbolic/allegorical figure, which isn't that big of a step for most churches today. Most churches don't really focus on biblical scripture as a historical documentary, but rather as inspirational or enlightening passages. Pure Christian literalism is actually fairly fringe, and I honestly don't think I have actually come across a Christian who is a pure literalist in my entire life... I have read about them "Westboro Baptist Church" (What is a "boro" anyway? Do they just spell Borough wrong?) but have never met any of them.

Basically, trying to prove Christianity as false is like trying to prove a fashion trend as false, or a language, or any other kind of cultural movement. You can prove elements about certain churches to be false, But even proving creationism false didn't end all religions that have a creation myth within them - and this isn't a recent occurrence either, even many religious people as far back as the Roman Empire didn't believe in creationism - St. Augustine, the most prominent non-biblical writer in Christian history, didn't believe in literalist interpretation of Genesis or creationism.

I suppose they mean by proving christianity false as in the New Testament and everything what comes with it is build on a lie.

 

But the world by today shows us that facts, evidence and proofs can all be labeled as fake news in front of their eyes. Those People don't listen to reason. Hence the flat earth movement. 

The issue is, that most of the ridiculous believes are being hold by stupid people. And you can't argue with stupid.



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i just find it hilarious myself that we have so many people denying the importance of religion in society when clearly the same people are influenced by the exact same drives religious people are

like the so called "anarcho-communists" who have pretty much just replaced god with the state and heaven with the communist utopia in their ideology... i mean when you really study it they have it all down to a tee and the lack of self awareness about this is so absolutely bizarre

the same people don't realise that the barbarism and intolerance they denounce religion for is just as prominent if not more so when you put man/the state as god

its the perfect example of the pot calling the kettle black

 

edit: lmao i had to come back to this post, i just though about it a bit more and it occured to me -what is one of the main reasons religion is attacked? well because it holds back progress and technology

 

but then you'll see the same people that say this stating that we need a society where we put more restrictions on well off people ( in other words innovators ) so we can achieve equality ( whatever that means )... lmao the parallels man jesus christ  

 

(Acts 9:18) - So Ananias went to the house, and when he arrived, he placed his hands on Saul. “Brother Saul,” he said, “the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here, has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” 18At that instant, something like scales fell from Saul’seyes, and his sight was restored. He got up and was baptized,  19and after taking some food, he regained his strength. And he spent several days with the disciples in Damascus.…

Last edited by o_O.Q - on 27 December 2017